Atheists: If there's no God, then where did the world come from?

[ninerbuff]

This was uncalled for, but whatever. I know you're going to say because of the big bang etc. etc. But the big bang couldn't have happened by itself. And yes I've read about all of this before so no need to accuse me of being ignorant. I'm just trying to have a civil debate.

Explain why the Big Bang couldn't have happened by itself.

 

[ninerbuff]

We as humans have limited perceptive abilities so it's impossible to know something that is out of the realm of our reality.

Which is a great reason not to understand the Big Bang.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Which is a great reason not to understand the Big Bang.

Or rather, to ignore it.

 

[tumbleweed41]

A unique entity, out side our time and space, could have caused our universes creation.
We call that entity God.

Exactly.
And I am glad to see the qualifier "could have".
It's a possibility based on faith. Not a necessity based on physics.

 

[ninerbuff]

I would say the "science" from religious books is nothing more than likened to that of how a psychic uses vague words and statements to try to convince people who "want" to believe that their thoughts are verified.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But the existence of God is believable since the creation of the universe is attributed to him. What purpose does the existence of elves, fairies and goblins serve? Nothing, so why believe that they exist in any shape or form?

So... God is only believable if he serves a purpose? IOW, God's believability hinges on him being necessary?

BTW - what purpose does God serve as creator of the universe that Odin and Ymir do not? Actually, IMO, the Norse creation myth has better explanatory power than the Abrahamic one, because it explains not just who did the creating (Odin) but where the substance of the universe came from (the slain body of Ymir).

So... what makes your God more believable than Odin?

Okay. Here's a clearer scientific discovery found in the Qur'an. Now this one is mostly literal so there's no need to make many interpretations of it.

So... our knowledge of scientific evidence is so compelling that when it and the Quran align, this supports the truth of the Quran, which in turn supports the creation myth given in the Quran, even though it goes against our knowledge of scientific evidence?

Which is it? Is scientific evidence reliable? If it is, then it would be unreasonable to believe the Quran when it contradicts science. If it's not, then science isn't support for the Quran at all.

 

[lunakilo]

So... God is only believable if he serves a purpose? IOW, God's believability hinges on him being necessary?

BTW - what purpose does God serve as creator of the universe that Odin and Ymir do not? Actually, IMO, the Norse creation myth has better explanatory power than the Abrahamic one, because it explains not just who did the creating (Odin) but where the substance of the universe came from (the slain body of Ymir).

So... what makes your God more believable than Odin?

Odin doesn't claim to be the creator

Where did Odin come from ... From Ymer.
Where did Ymer come from ... from the meeting of heat and cold.
Where did heat and cold come from?

You still have the same initial problem. Who created...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Odin doesn't claim to be the creator

Where did Odin come from ... From Ymer.
Where did Ymer come from ... from the meeting of heat and cold.
Where did heat and cold come from?

You still have the same initial problem. Who created...

Sure, but it's a problem for the Abrahamic God, too. I was just responding to his point that (AFAICT) goblins and fairies are less believable than God because nobody claims that they played a role in creation of the universe.

 

[Magic Man]

You should worship him because that's what we were created for. And life isn't perfect, that's why there are kids born with terrible diseases, people suffering in different parts of the world, and on and on/ God is benevolent because he gave us the freedom to think and live in this world.

You think God is benevolent because he allows us to live in a world where kids are born with terrible diseases and people are suffering all over the place? Would you be a benevolent parent if you let your kid live in squalor with a bunch of drug addicts even though you could give them a good life in a good environment, if you wanted?

That's why we say "thank God"; look how many people are suffering in this world and he chose to create you free from diseases/deformations.

So, from my perspective he's benevolent and great. From the perspective of someone born with a terrible disease, he's not so benevolent or great. Being good to some people but not others is not sufficient cause to worship him or think he's especially benevolent.

The answer to your original question is:

The world came from the convergence of different elements. The universe came from the a singularity which exploded, as far as we know. There is no evidence that any of this was caused by an intelligent being, much less Allah or any other theistic god. Until there is such evidence, there's no good reason to believe any god exists.

Also, you can't cite a bunch of poetic verses from an old book as scientific discoveries or revelations. All that is is biased interpretation. It's the same as all the supposed prophecies in the Bible and Qu'ran. It's vague language that can be interpretted many different ways. You and others choose to interpret it one way because of your bias. Others looking at it objectively don't see it that way because they're not looking at it with that bias.

 

[micrurus]

"god of the gaps" not having an answer for something does not mean that god did it

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"god of the gaps" not having an answer for something does not mean that god did it

I like "gophers of the gaps" better, myself. It's no more valid (though also no less valid) than "God of the gaps", but when I answer questions about how things happened with "gophers" instead of "I don't know", I usually like the mental image it creates.

 

[lunakilo]

Sure, but it's a problem for the Abrahamic God, too. I was just responding to his point that (AFAICT) goblins and fairies are less believable than God because nobody claims that they played a role in creation of the universe.

Sure you did (sorry, missed that post )

But the existence of God is believable since the creation of the universe is attributed to him. What purpose does the existence of elves, fairies and goblins serve? Nothing, so why believe that they exist in any shape or form?

Trees and flowers did not create the univers either, nor did Moses or Jesus so why believe they exist?

I will repost 9-10ths_Penguin link about the north creation myth (since I messed up his point )

Basically in the beginning there was nothing ... except heat (Muspelheim) and cold (Niflheim). That is how the universe began.

That sounds like a fine story to me...

 

[KittensAngel]

This is a prominent question that is yet to be answered convincingly by atheists. I mean the world can't have come from nothing, can it?

I think there's enough science available to answer your question as one posed not to atheists only, but also to Theists who would dare to have an open mind.

One question that is valid, and especially when Theists who accept without question the Neo-Creationist myth clad in the non-scientific term, "Intelligent Design" is, what created the Designer? What created God?

God can not have been born from nothing. Unfortunately however, that's exactly what many Theists accept while thinking evolution can be proven as a fiction clad in any number of plausible lies. Evolution is a myth, a tool of God's created adversary Ha Satan, or as young earth creationists believe of this 6 thousand year old planet, Dinosaur bones were deposited about her surface by Satan in order to lead people from the truth of God.

What created earth? God absolutely did not because nothing can be proven to have created anything called, "God".
If I'm wrong, prove it.

 

[PolyHedral]

Also, I'd like to point out that Occam's Razor means it's more viable for aliens to have wrote the Qu'ran, rather than God.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Also, I'd like to point out that Occam's Razor means it's more viable for aliens to have wrote the Qu'ran, rather than God.

Don't cut yourself. It's dangerous how you're mishandling that blade.

 

[McBell]

I notice it. What's the problem with it? I said that I presented links with scientific discoveries in the Qur'an as evidence to back up my original point that there's a God. Would you not call scientific information as evidence for an argument?

You present your opinions that the "discoveries" you parrot are scientific.
You have not presented anything that meets your definition of evidence.

Because saying that there are multiple Gods implies that one God is not powerful enough to run the universe all by himself.

Really?
How so?

Perhaps it is because you are biased towards monotheism?

 

[Tathagata]

This was uncalled for, but whatever. I know you're going to say because of the big bang etc. etc. But the big bang couldn't have happened by itself. And yes I've read about all of this before so no need to accuse me of being ignorant. I'm just trying to have a civil debate.

"Appeal to Ignorance" is not an insult, it's a logical fallacy. Haven't you heard of Appeal to Authority, Appeal to Popularity, or Appeal to Ridicule? These are all logical fallacies like Appeal to Ignorance.

He wasn't calling you ignorant, he was saying your argument is fallacious.

 

[outhouse]

I think to answer the mystery we have to examine what we have to work with first before we assume anything.


dont we first have to define god or gods? as a creator/s before we can start to state with any certainty over a random guess that anything was created by a deity or deitys.

[as in the ancient hebrew god, or the christians god, or the muslims god and then define said deity

I believe just using the abrahamic figure is a bit to vague since everyone has a different interpretation]



would we not also have to pick one creation story, said creation was based from and examine it and its history and determine if it was written as poem? allegory? or literally before any of this can be taken seriously???

 

[Tathagata]

This is a prominent question that is yet to be answered convincingly by atheists. I mean the world can't have come from nothing, can it?

Atheists are not requires to answer this question. Also, Atheists don't assert that the Universe came from nothing, they say they don't know.

Just because you can't think of any possiblity besides God as the origin of the Universe doesn't mean you are justified in asserting that God did it.

Also, there are alternative explanations to the God theory. The leading scientific theory on cosmolgical origins is the Multiverse. It is said that our universe is part of a much larger Multiverse and that our universe may have sprouted into existence, or it may have sprouted from another larger universe, or perhaps the universe has always existed in a never ending cycle of expanding and contracting.


.

 

[Looncall]

Atheists are not requires to answer this question. Also, Atheists don't assert that the Universe came from nothing, they say they don't know.

Just because you can't think of any possiblity besides God as the origin of the Universe doesn't mean you are justified in asserting that God did it.

Also, there are alternative explanations to the God theory. The leading scientific theory on cosmolgical origins is the Multiverse. It is said that our universe is part of a much larger Multiverse and that our universe may have sprouted into existence, or it may have sprouted from another larger universe, or perhaps the universe has always existed in a never ending cycle of expanding and contracting.


.

Hear him! Hear him!

An excellent response!