Atheists: Is that your final answer?

[Caladan]

I've always figured that agnostics (weak or strong) doubt the existance of God, but believe it's really impossible to know for sure. I've always thought that theists were absolutely convinced that there is a God and that atheists were absolutely convinced that there isn't one. So when an atheist tells me that if the supposedly non-existant God were to do such and such, he'd believe in Him, I counter with the statement that I don't believe he would. If he's an atheist, he's made up his mind already. Then all hell breaks loose and I have to run for my life.

So, all you atheists... Your answer is, "There is no God." But... is that your final answer? And if it isn't, why don't you consider yourself agnostic?

The 'but' is needless in the sense that I would not say 'There are no Martians. but... maybe there is somekind of possibility that they live deep beneath the surface of the red planet'.
the only way I would consider myself an agnostic would be in the sense,of entertaining myself in the thought that, perhaps behind reality and the universe there is an intelligent flow or force. but this idea of a force or phenomena is entirely different than the personified deity which many dogmas have manifested unto the masses. I think that in the 21 century there is no excuse to support an idea of an 'almighty' and 'perfect' male god. it is a patriarchal ideal or super ego used to rain down the ideology of men on society through the centuries.

 

[Lilbeth]

Yes, my final answer....no god to ever believe in here.......Have been this way, since I can remember...and will never change.....

 

[Willamena]

Okay, so I got myself into all kinds of trouble the other night by suggesting that atheists are closed-minded about the possibility of God existing. So I'm here to ask you, isn't an atheist who might be willing to change his mind about God existing really just an agnostic?
...
So, all you atheists... Your answer is, "There is no God." But... is that your final answer? And if it isn't, why don't you consider yourself agnostic?

To me, there are a variety of agnostics. There are those who are simply undecided on the question because they feel they don't have enough information; there are those who consider that they have enough information to determine the question undecided; and there are those who have enough information to decide that the subject is indeterminate. And probably more, too.

No, I don't have a final answer.

 

[Smoke]

I'm open to new information and to new ways of understanding the information I already have, so I guess you'll have to wait till I'm dead to know what my final answer is. I don't know.

However, it seems extremely unlikely to me that anything will ever happen that would make me believe in any god -- especially the Abrahamic god, in any of his forms. I could more readily believe in the Hindu God and the Gods, or in one of the pagan pantheons, but even if Odin were to appear to me tonight, I'd likely consider it a psychologically interesting episode.

 

[Imagist]

I've always figured that agnostics (weak or strong) doubt the existance of God, but believe it's really impossible to know for sure. I've always thought that theists were absolutely convinced that there is a God and that atheists were absolutely convinced that there isn't one. So when an atheist tells me that if the supposedly non-existant God were to do such and such, he'd believe in Him, I counter with the statement that I don't believe he would. If he's an atheist, he's made up his mind already. Then all hell breaks loose and I have to run for my life.

So, all you atheists... Your answer is, "There is no God." But... is that your final answer? And if it isn't, why don't you consider yourself agnostic?

Just because someone is sure of something doesn't mean that they can't change their mind based on new evidence. Certainty only indicates a present lack of doubt, not a permanent immunity to doubt.

 

[Lilbeth]

Also, I choose to believe in myself and in my own convictions.....Why must I believe in something outside of that? I do not need religion in order to be a good, kind, caring individual.....I have to live with myself....my actions, my deeds, my words, etc....
No one else does.........

 

[Inky]

Just because someone is sure of something doesn't mean that they can't change their mind based on new evidence. Certainty only indicates a present lack of doubt, not a permanent immunity to doubt.

I second that. I think that's the best summary of the whole issue I've heard.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Katzpur, your understanding and definition of an atheist is completely wrong... but in your defense that is how most people would define atheism.

Like Linwood said, atheism is the lack of belief in any deity; this is the general definition of atheism. However, some atheists go further and claim that there is no god (or gods); they are making an assertion. For this group, we define them as being strong atheists. Most atheists are not strong atheists though.

I am an atheists and I would never make the claim that there is no god. I simply examine all the claims of theists as well as pondering the question on own and I reject them all for complete lack of evidence. However, if in the future substantial evidence came forward to strongly support the existence of a god... I would no longer reject the claims.

So as to your question "Is that your final answer?" -- we are not saying "There is no god", we are just rejecting your claims and don't believe in something that doesn't provide evidence to support it. It is as if you tried telling me that there is life on Mars. At the moment I reject your claim (as you wouldn't be able to provide good evidence) but I am not going to say you are wrong. There very well could be some type of bacteria or something on Mars... but until I see proof or substantial evidence.. I do not believe it is true.

Linwood hit it right on the nail about the negative connotation attached to the word "atheist". For some reason, this word invokes images of negativity, evil, and immorality in mainstream America. I think that most people that call themselves agnostic are really atheists but use the word agnostic to avoid being wrongly judged by theists.

Thank you for this definition. I have used the whole "there are no gods" but this does help.....

 

[Willamena]

I'm an atheist who can believe in 'god', so yes, that's my final answer.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm an atheist who can believe in 'god', so yes, that's my final answer.

Could you explain that, 'cause you lost me.

 

[Smoke]

Also, I choose to believe in myself and in my own convictions.....

Isn't that really what theists do, too? I mean, even those who believe because some religious authority tells them to are relying on their own conviction that the authority is reliable. I like the old quote from Xenophanes of Kolophon: [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]"No man hath certainly known, nor shall certainly know, that which he saith about the gods and about all things; for, be that which he saith ever so perfect, yet does he not know it; all things are matters of opinion."[/FONT]

 

[Willamena]

Could you explain that, 'cause you lost me.

It's a long explanation, having to do with what it is to exist, to be separate from existence, to be one with existence, to know existence, to not know existence, and to rise as the foam above the wave. Perhaps a topic for another thread.

 

[kai]

Okay, so I got myself into all kinds of trouble the other night by suggesting that atheists are closed-minded about the possibility of God existing. So I'm here to ask you, isn't an atheist who might be willing to change his mind about God existing really just an agnostic?

I've always figured that agnostics (weak or strong) doubt the existance of God, but believe it's really impossible to know for sure. I've always thought that theists were absolutely convinced that there is a God and that atheists were absolutely convinced that there isn't one. So when an atheist tells me that if the supposedly non-existant God were to do such and such, he'd believe in Him, I counter with the statement that I don't believe he would. If he's an atheist, he's made up his mind already. Then all hell breaks loose and I have to run for my life.

So, all you atheists... Your answer is, "There is no God." But... is that your final answer? And if it isn't, why don't you consider yourself agnostic?

i don't like labels so i don't much consider myself anything , I don't believe in God because i have seen nothing to lead me to that conclusion,neither have i heard or read anything that alters that belief , and lastly i am certainly not going to take someone Else's word for it. thats all really.

you can label me if you like i just don't do it myself.

 

[Abracadabra]

I personally believe that there are only two kinds of people in this word, those who are willing to confess to themselves that they are agnostic, and those who are unwilling to face the truth.

That's my final answer.

 

[jrbogie]

Okay, so I got myself into all kinds of trouble the other night by suggesting that atheists are closed-minded about the possibility of God existing. So I'm here to ask you, isn't an atheist who might be willing to change his mind about God existing really just an agnostic?

nope. we agnostics think that the human mind is not capable of knowing such things as gods, the afterlife or other supernatural phenomena. there are too many definitions for atheism so to distinguish myself from the atheists i use the definition that says that an atheist BELIEVES that it is fact that there is no god just as the religious folk BELIEVE that god is a fact. an agnostic thinks that neither can ever prove their claim because you cannot prove the unknowable.

I've always figured that agnostics (weak or strong) doubt the existance of God, but believe it's really impossible to know for sure. I've always thought that theists were absolutely convinced that there is a God and that atheists were absolutely convinced that there isn't one. So when an atheist tells me that if the supposedly non-existant God were to do such and such, he'd believe in Him, I counter with the statement that I don't believe he would. If he's an atheist, he's made up his mind already. Then all hell breaks loose and I have to run for my life.

lol. stand your ground you don't have to run. an atheist that claims as fact that god is impossible is every bit as delusional as the faithful who take the oposite stance.

So, all you atheists... Your answer is, "There is no God." But... is that your final answer? And if it isn't, why don't you consider yourself agnostic?

if an atheist sees god as a possibility but without plausible evidence then he is now a theist. simply put, an agnostic just does not consider god. it's unknowable so what's to consider?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

if an atheist sees god as a possibility but without plausible evidence then he is now a theist.

Wow, that has to be the most nonsensical definition of 'theist' I've ever seen. By definition, you have to believe that god(s) exist to be a theist.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... there are only two kinds of people in this word, those who are willing to confess to themselves that they are agnostic, and those who are unwilling to face the truth.

As a devout agnostic, I got a good chuckle out of this statement.

It kind of reminds me of the old joke: "There are two kinds of people in the world - those that divide people into two groups, and those that don't".

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... we agnostics think that the human mind is not capable of knowing such things as gods, the afterlife or other supernatural phenomena.

Not to nitpick, but you shouldn't presume to speak for all agnostics.

I think the human mind is extremely capable of knowing whether or not God (or Gods) exist. The stumbling block isn't my ability to know - it is the complete lack of evidence supporting either position.

 

[jrbogie]

Not to nitpick, but you shouldn't presume to speak for all agnostics.

I think the human mind is extremely capable of knowing whether or not God (or Gods) exist. The stumbling block isn't my ability to know - it is the complete lack of evidence supporting either position.

fair nuff. then let's say that my view of an agnostic was coined by albert einstein when he espoused often that NOTHING is really knowable by the human mind. you are free to define the word as you wish. but i really don't think anybody here means to speak for all people of one group. i know i don't but i don't spend time proofreading for how i might be misleading. jeez, now we're sounding like the faithful debating whether or not kkk klansmen are good christians.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Whether or not anything is truly KNOWABLE is a question of existence.

For the sake of this discussion, I will concede (to anyone) that you and I exist, along with the rest of the natural world.

Again, I didn't mean to nitpick, I just wanted to make the distinction that I feel very comfortable in taking the position that we have the capability (as humans) to know whether or not God exists - provided that we are provided with evidence to support the position.