Atheists Pressure MI School District to Stop Treating the Birth of Jesus as Fact

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I think I estimated your comprehension skills in another post. What amuses me is that an atheist will tell you that the only thing atheists have in common is that they don't believe in God, then doubt that anyone could ever possibly have not believed in God and changed their mind. That's idiotic..

Indeed-- it is idiotic; that someone who has demonstrated repeatedly that they lack the basic understanding of what 'atheist' even means, claims to have been one.

I have seen many a fundie who claims to have been 'atheist' in the past-- when questioned about it? Their claim to be 'atheist' was simply that they failed to attend church on a weekly schedule... all the while, believing in some form of Deity.

Not an atheist at all-- just someone who couldn't get along with any of the Existing Religions well enough to attend regularly.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Ok... so the real issue here is that you want everyone to pay taxes and not about churches..

No-- I want any group who makes claims they can NEVER-EVER prove?

To admit that, and pay taxes as an ENTERTAINMENT VENUE.

Or prove their god-claims to qualify as "not for profit".

Either way.

Without proof of god? All churches are For Profit Entertainment Businesses.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why did churches never pay? Because the fore-fathers knew that this was a Christian based country and the King doesn't pay taxes to the people.

Absolutely false.

They didn't pay because of the Establishment Clause: Paying Taxes, would mean that these churches supported the activities of Government, and can be seen as tacit Endorsement.

Remember: the Framers were from England, where Church Tax was a very real thing-- specific tax was collected that directly supported the Church Of England.

Since most of the Framers were Deists? (definitely **not** christians-- those were a minority) they abhorred paying taxes to support Any Church-- of Any Sort.

As Jefferson wrote, more than once, the US was Not founded as a Christian Nation-- it was deliberately Secular.

Proof? Nothing in the US Constitution supports or denigrates any religion of any kind. The Constitution is Neutral with respect to Gods.

 

[Earthling]

No. It's called being skeptical. Skepticism is what leads to not believing in supernatural entities. Do you really expect any will believe that you went from being an atheist to being a full-blown holy roller? No. That you are a full-blown holy roller is evidenced by your view on evolution...

[Laughs] Okay. When I was 16 years old I had this plan. I was going to take a bunch of Playboy pin ups down to the local baptist church and attach them to the radio antennas and windshield wipers of cars parked there. I lived in the Bible belt. I saw everything Christians around me said as pure nonsense. I didn't believe in God.

If you think I wasn't an atheist well I grant you permission to labor under that delusion. But what the hell do you know about it? Huh? Nothing.

 

[Kenny]

As I said - co-opted.

LOL... I would say "used every method to share the story".

 

[Kenny]

This is demonstrably false. Churches are tax-exempt because the government thought the ability
to tax = the ability to control. Sorry, but America wasn't founded as a Christian nation, either.

Demonstrably false.

 

[Kenny]

No-- I want any group who makes claims they can NEVER-EVER prove?

To admit that, and pay taxes as an ENTERTAINMENT VENUE.

Or prove their god-claims to qualify as "not for profit".

Either way.

Without proof of god? All churches are For Profit Entertainment Businesses.

This is obviously opinionated. Uhhhh... sorry, an opinion.

 

[Earthling]

Indeed-- it is idiotic; that someone who has demonstrated repeatedly that they lack the basic understanding of what 'atheist' even means, claims to have been one.

Atheist. Antithisis of theist. Doesn't believe in or worship any god(s). That was me. You want to say that isn't being an atheist? Okay, then. I wasn't an atheist. I certainly wasn't involved in any atheist parades.

I have seen many a fundie who claims to have been 'atheist' in the past-- when questioned about it? Their claim to be 'atheist' was simply that they failed to attend church on a weekly schedule... all the while, believing in some form of Deity.

Not an atheist at all-- just someone who couldn't get along with any of the Existing Religions well enough to attend regularly.

I went to a church once when I was five, with my grandmother. The preacher says to me "Do you know what happens to little boys who don't go to church?" I had never been. "No." He said "They go to hell." My folks raised me even then not to be of the mind that any words were obscene so even at five I used all of those expletives known to the English speaking person. To me, to go to hell was an insult that I didn't fully appreciate. I told him "You can go to hell." My grandmother backhanded me and I ran home in the rain.

I didn't believe in God. That is what an atheist is. I was an atheist. Until I was 27. I thought the Bible, God, heaven, hell, was all superstitious nonsense.

You guys can't stand the fact that I converted. That's the only real objection you have. You think atheism is intellectual, academic, rational, etc. It isn't. I had no reason other than the poor example of the fundi in the Bible belt to be an atheist, but that is exactly what I was. An ignorant atheist.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

This is obviously opinionated. Uhhhh... sorry, an opinion.

Nope: observed fact.

Have your god call up the IRS and prove your god-claims.

No? God cannot do such?

We know-- that's why all religions are Entertainment Enterprises.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Atheist. Antithisis of theist. Doesn't believe in or worship any god(s). That was me. You want to say that isn't being an atheist? Okay, then. I wasn't an atheist. I certainly wasn't involved in any atheist parades.



I went to a church once when I was five, with my grandmother. The preacher says to me "Do you know what happens to little boys who don't go to church?" I had never been. "No." He said "They go to hell." My folks raised me even then not to be of the mind that any words were obscene so even at five I used all of those expletives known to the English speaking person. To me, to go to hell was an insult that I didn't fully appreciate. I told him "You can go to hell." My grandmother backhanded me and I ran home in the rain.

I didn't believe in God. That is what an atheist is. I was an atheist. Until I was 27. I thought the Bible, God, heaven, hell, was all superstitious nonsense.

You guys can't stand the fact that I converted. That's the only real objection you have. You think atheism is intellectual, academic, rational, etc. It isn't. I had no reason other than the poor example of the fundi in the Bible belt to be an atheist, but that is exactly what I was. An ignorant atheist.

If you say so-- however, I strongly suspect you are not being honest with either yourself, or this post.

But whatever. Anyone can suffer the ravages of delusional states, I suppose, given sufficient indoctrination.

 

[Earthling]

If you say so-- however, I strongly suspect you are not being honest with either yourself, or this post.

But whatever. Anyone can suffer the ravages of delusional states, I suppose, given sufficient indoctrination.

Obviously. You have demonstrated that most effectively.

 

[Kenny]

Nope: observed fact.

Have your god call up the IRS and prove your god-claims.

No? God cannot do such?

We know-- that's why all religions are Entertainment Enterprises.

I go to original intent... you go to "whatever we want to make it today".

LOL.. "observed fact"? we are tax exempt.

 

[Salvador]

No. Wiki is a popularity contest-- especially with respect to this silly claim. There is zero reason to think there ever was a singular, charismatic figure to whom the Legend Of Jesus can be attributed. Possibly a sizable number of wandering Rabbis? Who's Friend of a Friend stories were collected, re-titled into one mythic person? Sure. The Jews were an Occupied People, after all.


LMAO! Fraud, from a convicted Fraudister. Did you not read the Wiki article? Paragraph 3: from your own link

.


Fake "relic" from a time when people were happy to take moola from gullible fools.... has that time ever come to an end?

"The Israeli Antiquities Authority has failed to offer any report explaining why it concluded the ossuary is a forgery."

"The fragile condition of the ossuary attests to its antiquity. The Israel Geological Survey submitted the ossuary to a variety of scientific tests, which determined that the limestone of the ossuary had a patina or sheen consistent with being in a cave for many centuries. The same type of patina covers the incised lettering of the inscription as the rest of the surface. It is claimed that if the inscription were recent, this would not be the case."

Reference: Craig A. Evans, Jesus and the Ossuaries Baylor University Press, 2003

In 2008, an archaeometric analysis conducted by Amnon Rosenfeld, Howard Randall Feldman, and Wolfgang Elisabeth Krumbein strengthened the authenticity contention of the ossuary. It found that patina on the ossuary surface matched that in the engravings, and that microfossils in the inscription seemed naturally deposited.

Referernce: "Archaeometric Analysis of the James Ossuary". gsa.confex.com. Retrieved 2016-10-11.

"The Biblical Archaeology Review also continued to defend the ossuary. In articles in the February 2005 issues, several paleographic experts argue that the James Ossuary is authentic and should be examined by specialists outside of Israel."

Another article claims the cleaning of the James Ossuary before it was examined may have caused the problem with the patina. On June 13, 2012 a Biblical Archaeology Review press release announced the first major post-trial analysis of the ossuary, discussing the plausibility of its authenticity and using statistical analysis of ancient names to suggest that in contemporary Jerusalem, there would be 1.71 people named James with a father Joseph and a brother named Jesus

Reference: Biblical Archaeology Society | Press Release: "Brother of Jesus" Proved Ancient and Authentic Archived 2012-06-16 at the Wayback Machine.

There is no evidence that the ossuary's inscription was forged, according to Jerusalem Judge Aharon Farkash. On March 14th 2012, he stated ..."the prosecution failed to prove their accusations beyond a reasonable doubt."

Reference: "Breaking News: Golan and Deutsch Acquitted of All Forgery Charges". Bible History Daily. 14 March 2012.

He was particularly scathing about tests carried out by the Israel police forensics laboratory that he said had probably contaminated the ossuary, making it impossible to carry out further scientific tests on the inscription.

Reference: "Search". The Globe and Mail. Toronto. May 21, 2012.

 

[Salvador]

​

From your own link...My emphases

The inscription is considered significant because, if genuine, it might provide archaeological evidence for Jesus of Nazareth.[1][dubious – discuss]​

So, if this is the "most convincing evidence for" you don't have very much.

There's additional compelling evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus Christ.

"Mara bar ("son of ") Serapion, sometimes spelled Mara bar Sarapion was a Stoic philosopher from the Roman province of Syria. He is noted for a letter he wrote in Syriac to his son, who was also named Serapion. The letter was composed sometime after 73 AD but before the 3rd century, and most scholars date it to shortly after AD 73 during the first century. The letter may be an early non-Christian reference to the crucifixion of Jesus."

Reference: Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 53-56

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Obviously. You have demonstrated that most effectively.

Indeed I have: your delusions are without limit, as demonstrated by nearly every one of your posts.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I go to original intent... you go to "whatever we want to make it today".

LOL.. "observed fact"? we are tax exempt.

Only by Special Decree-- not because you can prove your god-claims.

If you could prove your god? You would.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

"The Israeli Antiquities Authority has failed to offer any report explaining why it concluded the ossuary is a forgery."

"The fragile condition of the ossuary attests to its antiquity. The Israel Geological Survey submitted the ossuary to a variety of scientific tests, which determined that the limestone of the ossuary had a patina or sheen consistent with being in a cave for many centuries. The same type of patina covers the incised lettering of the inscription as the rest of the surface. It is claimed that if the inscription were recent, this would not be the case."

Reference: Craig A. Evans, Jesus and the Ossuaries Baylor University Press, 2003

In 2008, an archaeometric analysis conducted by Amnon Rosenfeld, Howard Randall Feldman, and Wolfgang Elisabeth Krumbein strengthened the authenticity contention of the ossuary. It found that patina on the ossuary surface matched that in the engravings, and that microfossils in the inscription seemed naturally deposited.

Referernce: "Archaeometric Analysis of the James Ossuary". gsa.confex.com. Retrieved 2016-10-11.

"The Biblical Archaeology Review also continued to defend the ossuary. In articles in the February 2005 issues, several paleographic experts argue that the James Ossuary is authentic and should be examined by specialists outside of Israel."

Another article claims the cleaning of the James Ossuary before it was examined may have caused the problem with the patina. On June 13, 2012 a Biblical Archaeology Review press release announced the first major post-trial analysis of the ossuary, discussing the plausibility of its authenticity and using statistical analysis of ancient names to suggest that in contemporary Jerusalem, there would be 1.71 people named James with a father Joseph and a brother named Jesus

Reference: Biblical Archaeology Society | Press Release: "Brother of Jesus" Proved Ancient and Authentic Archived 2012-06-16 at the Wayback Machine.

There is no evidence that the ossuary's inscription was forged, according to Jerusalem Judge Aharon Farkash. On March 14th 2012, he stated ..."the prosecution failed to prove their accusations beyond a reasonable doubt."

Reference: "Breaking News: Golan and Deutsch Acquitted of All Forgery Charges". Bible History Daily. 14 March 2012.

He was particularly scathing about tests carried out by the Israel police forensics laboratory that he said had probably contaminated the ossuary, making it impossible to carry out further scientific tests on the inscription.

Reference: "Search". The Globe and Mail. Toronto. May 21, 2012.

That's nice. Nothing in each of your posts, above? Support your original claims.

All that they do? Is say the thing is old. So what? It doesn't say how old. About as useful as the fake Shroud of Turin. I note that all--repeat-- all of your so-called experts? Had an Axe to Grind--- as such, are about as trustworthy as any other religious type.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There's additional compelling evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus Christ.

"Mara bar ("son of ") Serapion, sometimes spelled Mara bar Sarapion was a Stoic philosopher from the Roman province of Syria. He is noted for a letter he wrote in Syriac to his son, who was also named Serapion. The letter was composed sometime after 73 AD but before the 3rd century, and most scholars date it to shortly after AD 73 during the first century. The letter may be an early non-Christian reference to the crucifixion of Jesus."

Reference: Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 53-56

Yet another highly biased "expert" with an axe to grind.... not trustworthy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There's additional compelling evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus Christ.

"Mara bar ("son of ") Serapion, sometimes spelled Mara bar Sarapion was a Stoic philosopher from the Roman province of Syria. He is noted for a letter he wrote in Syriac to his son, who was also named Serapion. The letter was composed sometime after 73 AD but before the 3rd century, and most scholars date it to shortly after AD 73 during the first century. The letter may be an early non-Christian reference to the crucifixion of Jesus."

Reference: Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 53-56

Denying the existence of Jesus makes zero sense. You would think if he didn't exist, the Jews would've said that. Instead the Jews talked about him and said he was the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier. The Romans would've loved to use that information in their persecutions of Christians, too. The stance makes zero sense.

 

[Kenny]

Only by Special Decree-- not because you can prove your god-claims.

If you could prove your god? You would.

The evidence is there, it is in the interpretation of the evidence where we disagree.