Atheists: what do you think about all things spiritual/religious? Religious people: what about atheists?

[an anarchist]

Hey, atheist! What do you think about me?

Specifically, about the fact that I am spiritual/religious; what do you think about that? Does that make me fearful? Foolish? Deluded? Full of myself? Any adjective with a negative connotation?

Be honest. What do you think about religious people when considering the fact that they are religious?

What do you think about religion itself? What adjectives would you use to describe it?

The reason I post this is because of a conversation I was having with my 100% atheist boyfriend earlier. I was explaining my elementary knowledge of Hinduism to him, and also just in general what I get out of spiritual practice. I began talking about the source of the Upanishads, the ancient sages. It is my understanding that these ancient sages discovered great truths through their practices, and this knowledge was passed down. I was explaining to him how spiritual practice can help you see the supreme reality, which is what these sages did (right?). When I said that, I thought about how that must sound to him, someone who is a man of science! I told him that what I was saying must sound rather pompous. He smiled and said that was one way of putting it, but he preferred the word "extravagant".

I can tell you how Christians tend to view atheists. When I say Christians, my frame of reference is the community I grew up in. I know it's not an encompassing representation of Christianity, but I think we all know some Christians have a superiority complex, thanks to their religion.

I was taught in church that atheists are not to be your good friends. (This held true for other groups, but focusing on atheists here). Preach to them, yes, but don't really befriend them. They are not part of the brotherhood. Atheists are in fact blind to reality. They cannot see the truth (the truth being that Jesus Christ is God). Jesus Christ's godhood is readily apparent to those possessed by the holy spirit. It is logical. So atheists are illogical. I mean, think about it. They think we literally came from monkeys. How stupid can you be? Plus, if they are not on Jesus's side, they are on the devils side. The literal devil, dude.

I know many Christians in my community who think like this. Rather, I know churches who think like this.

Question for everybody

How do you view those who do not see the way you do? May seem like a silly question with an obvious answer "I don't see them any differently!"
But that's not true for everyone. For me, I see those who do not pursue spirituality as missing out in life. I know it's not for everyone, but, in a way, it is for everyone. I think everyone should be spiritual. I think a shift in collective consciousness towards a collective spiritual growth would be cool. Atheists could contribute to this growth more so than a believer, if they're more moral.

I don't see atheists as morally deficient or agents of the opposition or anything. I know spirituality is not for my boyfriend, I don't want to force it on him. He's a way better person than me, imo. And he's does that as an atheist, without spiritual guidance.

I believe in a greater power. It's literally there I think. So I think atheists are simply missing out on a valuable tool. But many believers can never wield the tools properly anyways, so perhaps the atheist is better off. perhaps they use the spiritual tools by virtue of their goodness.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I try to turn it on its head a little.

How do you treat people?
Are you compassionate?
Are you trustworthy?
Are you reliable?
Are you consistent?
Are you there when I need you? Can I be there when you need me?

If I get a bunch of yeses to those questions, perhaps the thing you're using to generate a worldview is working.
If you want to call it 'God' or 'religion' or 'secular humanism' or 'a no d***heads policy' that's all fine and dandy with me.

 

[ChristineM]

Hey, atheist! What do you think about me?

What i think Is that you seem to be a nice, interesting, caring and understanding guy. If we lived close enough we could probably be friends.

Be honest. What do you think about religious people when considering the fact that they are religious?

They are fine so long as they don't force their religion on others, lucky the majority of religious people have the same attitude as me, they are ________ (fill in religion here), so what?

What do you think about religion itself? What adjectives would you use to describe it?

Bof
The french equivalent of 'meh' but with more meaning.

 

[osgart]

Spirituality takes the love, desire and willingness for it. I'm spiritual yet I don't believe in Gods.

Without the love, desire and willingness for it then I don't believe it'll do anything for anybody except perhaps humble them, or break their hearts.

Humanity isn't ideal so striving for ideals will be only disheartening with the wrong attitude towards it.

I don't see spirituality as only morals. I see it as a journey to understand so that understanding can uplift and transcend human nature.

Perfection is not even real from human nature standpoint. Ignoring human biological nature , and ignoring human flaws is also a major roadblock.

To me a charitable heart is at the core of spirituality. It's also realizing no one is perfect.

I see the need for spirituality for many reasons. For one, people don't always want to help other people. Homelessness, and oppression are diseases of human nature. Etc.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Speaking more as an agnostic, although generally not accepting of the basic truths of most religions whilst also accepting much of what they might espouse (so mainly an atheist), I don't have any particular beliefs concerning any such in this category, other than any perceived harms I see as coming from certain beliefs. And this being rather obvious as to the extremes of such - some having relatively less harmful or beneficial doctrines or beliefs and some not so much (which might enable harms), and where the latter do seem more divisive and corrosive as to influences. To me at least.

So, overall it doesn't bother me what people tend to believe as to these things, and if such perhaps makes them more content and/or better people then why would I complain? They might even be completely correct and the rest of us who don't believe their particular version of reality are indeed the fools, but I'll take my chances as to probability and statistics being correct. I believe in the essential rights and freedoms as to what we do with our lives but with the obvious constraints of such not harming others. Hence one reason why I am opposed to religious indoctrination and especially of children, even if such is seen as a right by many parents. I tend to place the child's rights over that of any parent - within reason.

What I have noticed, and especially whilst being on RF, has been the mindset that so often accompanies any whole-hearted devotion to some particular belief system - and obviously this doesn't necessarily relate to religious beliefs - is that some sacrifice is often made and not necessarily coming from the belief itself. This sometimes being as to a disregard for science or scientific evidence or just a 'looking the other way' when anything related to science crops up. Science is not easy, and neither is mathematics, and is perhaps why so many don't become enthralled or involved in either, but one cannot be accepted as a legitimate critic if one doesn't at least understand the topic or have a passable education in either of these subjects. I mention mathematics because so many seem to go all dolally when an incident occurs and this seems to be a portent for human destruction or our 'badness'.

An additional concern I have, and which will apply to us all no doubt, is as to how any particular belief system might dominate our lives. And religions are a prime example of being such a belief system. Personally, my life has been more that of a drifter and monitor, and hence why I might not have achieved so much as I might have done, but I do seem to have steered clear of any overriding beliefs that might have simply controlled my life. To me, so many do seem to be so allied to their beliefs even if such has a negative impact on their actual lives.

Lastly, I tend to have a healthy regard (I think) as to what we experience and how we interpret such, and where we might be led down all sorts of roads if we weren't so critical of our explanations as to these. And I think some knowledge of how the mind tends to work is usually good knowledge to have, even if one might never be an expert.

So that is my general view as to spiritual or religious beliefs, and as to why I don't regard them so highly as so many others do. Such is life.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hey, atheist! What do you think about me?

Specifically, about the fact that I am spiritual/religious; what do you think about that? Does that make me fearful? Foolish? Deluded? Full of myself? Any adjective with a negative connotation?

Be honest. What do you think about religious people when considering the fact that they are religious?

What do you think about religion itself? What adjectives would you use to describe it?

The reason I post this is because of a conversation I was having with my 100% atheist boyfriend earlier. I was explaining my elementary knowledge of Hinduism to him, and also just in general what I get out of spiritual practice. I began talking about the source of the Upanishads, the ancient sages. It is my understanding that these ancient sages discovered great truths through their practices, and this knowledge was passed down. I was explaining to him how spiritual practice can help you see the supreme reality, which is what these sages did (right?). When I said that, I thought about how that must sound to him, someone who is a man of science! I told him that what I was saying must sound rather pompous. He smiled and said that was one way of putting it, but he preferred the word "extravagant".

I can tell you how Christians tend to view atheists. When I say Christians, my frame of reference is the community I grew up in. I know it's not an encompassing representation of Christianity, but I think we all know some Christians have a superiority complex, thanks to their religion.

I was taught in church that atheists are not to be your good friends. (This held true for other groups, but focusing on atheists here). Preach to them, yes, but don't really befriend them. They are not part of the brotherhood. Atheists are in fact blind to reality. They cannot see the truth (the truth being that Jesus Christ is God). Jesus Christ's godhood is readily apparent to those possessed by the holy spirit. It is logical. So atheists are illogical. I mean, think about it. They think we literally came from monkeys. How stupid can you be? Plus, if they are not on Jesus's side, they are on the devils side. The literal devil, dude.

I know many Christians in my community who think like this. Rather, I know churches who think like this.

Question for everybody

How do you view those who do not see the way you do? May seem like a silly question with an obvious answer "I don't see them any differently!"
But that's not true for everyone. For me, I see those who do not pursue spirituality as missing out in life. I know it's not for everyone, but, in a way, it is for everyone. I think everyone should be spiritual. I think a shift in collective consciousness towards a collective spiritual growth would be cool. Atheists could contribute to this growth more so than a believer, if they're more moral.

I don't see atheists as morally deficient or agents of the opposition or anything. I know spirituality is not for my boyfriend, I don't want to force it on him. He's a way better person than me, imo. And he's does that as an atheist, without spiritual guidance.

I believe in a greater power. It's literally there I think. So I think atheists are simply missing out on a valuable tool. But many believers can never wield the tools properly anyways, so perhaps the atheist is better off. perhaps they use the spiritual tools by virtue of their goodness.

I think it depends.

Starting with "spirituality": I don’t know what the term means. Or rather, the way people use it varies across a huge spectrum. When someone says "I'm a spiritual person," without digging further, I have no idea whether:

- they're conventionally religious, and just use the term "spirituality" to refer to their religion,

- their approach to life is as secular as mine and they just use different terminology than I do around purpose and meaning; or

- they're very into some New Age belief system that doesn't like to call itself a religion.

... so "spirituality" by itself doesn’t really make me think anything. I'd have to dig more to form an actual opinion.

My approach to religiosity is kinda similar. Someone just saying "I'm religious" doesn't tell me where they are on the spectrum from "church just happens to be what I got used to as a kid and I like the community there" to "I take every word in my holy book as literally true."

One thing that I find tempers my reaction to religious people, though: IMO, very few people live as if their religion is actually true... or at least most of them compartmentalize.

If they see you need help, they'll help themselves instead of praying to theur god(s) to help you. They'll still inspect and maintain their airplanes instead of relying on God for protection. They get sad at funerals.

... so I don't generally judge religious people unless I get some sign that they're really into it: they're extremely devout, or they proselytize, or they're a religious minister, etc.


Now... if they tell me that they belong to a religion that does messed up stuff (lobbying for anti-LGBTQ laws, picketing abortion clinics, pressuring their members not to report abuse to the police, etc.), I may form a negative opinion of even a casual member, though I think this is separate to what you're asking about.

 

[HonestJoe]

Hey, atheist! What do you think about me?

I think you ask thoughtful but flawed questions and, just like me, have a tendency to write too much to try to get your point across. I know literally nothing else about you.

Specifically, about the fact that I am spiritual/religious; what do you think about that? Does that make me fearful? Foolish? Deluded? Full of myself? Any adjective with a negative connotation?

Be honest. What do you think about religious people when considering the fact that they are religious?

I don't think of spiritual or religious people as a singular group at all, and certainly not people. Spiritual/religious don't even think of other spiritual/religious as a singular group either. The word "religious" is like the word "vehicle", which covers everything from unicycles to space shuttles. There is very little you can say that applies to all, or even most, vehicles.

It's also worth noting that for the vast majority of people who we will naturally reach some kind of conclusion about, we won't know much if anything about any religious beliefs they might hold (even if they make statements claiming to describe what they believe).

How do you view those who do not see the way you do? May seem like a silly question with an obvious answer "I don't see them any differently!"

That they see things differently isn't as much the issue as why they see things differently, how they reach their conclusions and how willing they are to listen to alternatives and reconsider their position. I get on perfectly will with people who hold fundamentally different beliefs to me but are still reasonable and respectful about it. There are other people I've had arguments with because they believe the same thing I do but for really stupid reasons.

At risk of entirely contradicting my points but generalising about religion, but some organised religions can have a tendency to encourage the exact opposite, defining, separating or judging people on the basis of what they say and do, without considering why.

 

[MikeF]

I think everyone should be spiritual.
...
I think a shift in collective consciousness towards a collective spiritual growth would be cool.

You haven't really explained what you mean by "being spiritual". Does it mean that everyone in the world should adopt the dogma of what you were taught in your church? Is that the page everyone is to get on? If that is not what you are advocating, I fail to see what will be solved by everyone being a different kind of "spiritual" as is the current case. The church you describe seems to be very specific on exactly what kind of spirituality counts, and most likely has no more regard for "spiritual Jews", "spiritual Muslims", "spiritual Buddhists", "spiritual pantheist", etc., than they do for atheists who might consider themselves "spiritual" or otherwise.

Perhaps we would be better off with the realization that we all do not have identical needs and wants. You express a strong need to be "spiritual". That's perfectly fine. But whatever it is that meets your needs is in no way necessary for everyone.

What is universally needed is not "spirituality" but an understanding and respect that we are all have similarities but also unique differences, resulting in different needs and wants, and that we simply require a universal standard of conduct that allows us to satisfy our needs and wants to the limit of adversely impacting every other person in pursuit of their needs and wants. A reasonable and rational set of standards that allows us to function and live in the large complex societies we have created. In such a system, all can express their unique spiritualness however they see fit to meet their need or lack thereof.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hey, atheist! What do you think about me?

Specifically, about the fact that I am spiritual/religious; what do you think about that? Does that make me fearful? Foolish? Deluded? Full of myself? Any adjective with a negative connotation?

Be honest. What do you think about religious people when considering the fact that they are religious?

What do you think about religion itself? What adjectives would you use to describe it?

The reason I post this is because of a conversation I was having with my 100% atheist boyfriend earlier. I was explaining my elementary knowledge of Hinduism to him, and also just in general what I get out of spiritual practice. I began talking about the source of the Upanishads, the ancient sages. It is my understanding that these ancient sages discovered great truths through their practices, and this knowledge was passed down. I was explaining to him how spiritual practice can help you see the supreme reality, which is what these sages did (right?). When I said that, I thought about how that must sound to him, someone who is a man of science! I told him that what I was saying must sound rather pompous. He smiled and said that was one way of putting it, but he preferred the word "extravagant".

I can tell you how Christians tend to view atheists. When I say Christians, my frame of reference is the community I grew up in. I know it's not an encompassing representation of Christianity, but I think we all know some Christians have a superiority complex, thanks to their religion.

I was taught in church that atheists are not to be your good friends. (This held true for other groups, but focusing on atheists here). Preach to them, yes, but don't really befriend them. They are not part of the brotherhood. Atheists are in fact blind to reality. They cannot see the truth (the truth being that Jesus Christ is God). Jesus Christ's godhood is readily apparent to those possessed by the holy spirit. It is logical. So atheists are illogical. I mean, think about it. They think we literally came from monkeys. How stupid can you be? Plus, if they are not on Jesus's side, they are on the devils side. The literal devil, dude.

I know many Christians in my community who think like this. Rather, I know churches who think like this.

Question for everybody

How do you view those who do not see the way you do? May seem like a silly question with an obvious answer "I don't see them any differently!"
But that's not true for everyone. For me, I see those who do not pursue spirituality as missing out in life. I know it's not for everyone, but, in a way, it is for everyone. I think everyone should be spiritual. I think a shift in collective consciousness towards a collective spiritual growth would be cool. Atheists could contribute to this growth more so than a believer, if they're more moral.

I don't see atheists as morally deficient or agents of the opposition or anything. I know spirituality is not for my boyfriend, I don't want to force it on him. He's a way better person than me, imo. And he's does that as an atheist, without spiritual guidance.

I believe in a greater power. It's literally there I think. So I think atheists are simply missing out on a valuable tool. But many believers can never wield the tools properly anyways, so perhaps the atheist is better off. perhaps they use the spiritual tools by virtue of their goodness.

I view your perspective as being a personal mental based interpretation that, depending on specifics, may or may not coincide with known established science.

 

[an anarchist]

... so "spirituality" by itself doesn’t really make me think anything. I'd have to dig more to form an actual opinion.

You haven't really explained what you mean by "being spiritual"

I think what spirituality can be simply described as "magical thinking".

People who believe in a supernatural force I mean. I'm using the term broadly, and it includes everyone not an atheist/agnostic I think pretty much.

 

[Jimmy]

Live n let live

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Religion is a way to find meaning and purpose behind life. I don't find atheists immoral at all but I do find them filled with nihilism, unable to tell me why people exist. On the other hand, those who are religious can often be superstitious and appear to be gullible to me. As a syntheist and a member of Earthseed I see myself right inbetween both the religious and irreligious and often have disagreements with both camps of people. The religious likes to read into things that don't exist and I find the irreligious are a bit too unassuming for my tastes.

 

[Orbit]

Hey, atheist! What do you think about me?

Specifically, about the fact that I am spiritual/religious; what do you think about that? Does that make me fearful? Foolish? Deluded? Full of myself? Any adjective with a negative connotation?

Be honest. What do you think about religious people when considering the fact that they are religious?

What do you think about religion itself? What adjectives would you use to describe it?

The reason I post this is because of a conversation I was having with my 100% atheist boyfriend earlier. I was explaining my elementary knowledge of Hinduism to him, and also just in general what I get out of spiritual practice. I began talking about the source of the Upanishads, the ancient sages. It is my understanding that these ancient sages discovered great truths through their practices, and this knowledge was passed down. I was explaining to him how spiritual practice can help you see the supreme reality, which is what these sages did (right?). When I said that, I thought about how that must sound to him, someone who is a man of science! I told him that what I was saying must sound rather pompous. He smiled and said that was one way of putting it, but he preferred the word "extravagant".

I can tell you how Christians tend to view atheists. When I say Christians, my frame of reference is the community I grew up in. I know it's not an encompassing representation of Christianity, but I think we all know some Christians have a superiority complex, thanks to their religion.

I was taught in church that atheists are not to be your good friends. (This held true for other groups, but focusing on atheists here). Preach to them, yes, but don't really befriend them. They are not part of the brotherhood. Atheists are in fact blind to reality. They cannot see the truth (the truth being that Jesus Christ is God). Jesus Christ's godhood is readily apparent to those possessed by the holy spirit. It is logical. So atheists are illogical. I mean, think about it. They think we literally came from monkeys. How stupid can you be? Plus, if they are not on Jesus's side, they are on the devils side. The literal devil, dude.

I know many Christians in my community who think like this. Rather, I know churches who think like this.

Question for everybody

How do you view those who do not see the way you do? May seem like a silly question with an obvious answer "I don't see them any differently!"
But that's not true for everyone. For me, I see those who do not pursue spirituality as missing out in life. I know it's not for everyone, but, in a way, it is for everyone. I think everyone should be spiritual. I think a shift in collective consciousness towards a collective spiritual growth would be cool. Atheists could contribute to this growth more so than a believer, if they're more moral.

I don't see atheists as morally deficient or agents of the opposition or anything. I know spirituality is not for my boyfriend, I don't want to force it on him. He's a way better person than me, imo. And he's does that as an atheist, without spiritual guidance.

I believe in a greater power. It's literally there I think. So I think atheists are simply missing out on a valuable tool. But many believers can never wield the tools properly anyways, so perhaps the atheist is better off. perhaps they use the spiritual tools by virtue of their goodness.

I don't care what religious people do as long as they don't use their majority to pass laws and policy based on their religion, basically requiring others to live by their religion. I also don't want them to assume everyone shares their beliefs, excluding nonbelievers or putting them in uncomfortable situations. Other than that, I don't really care what those who have a religion or spiritual belief do.

 

[ChristineM]

Religion is a way to find meaning and purpose behind life. I don't find atheists immoral at all but I do find them filled with nihilism, unable to tell me why people exist. On the other hand, those who are religious can often be superstitious and appear to be gullible to me. As a syntheist and a member of Earthseed I see myself right inbetween both the religious and irreligious and often have disagreements with both camps of people. The religious likes to read into things that don't exist and I find the irreligious are a bit too unassuming for my tastes.

Can you tell me why people exist?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Can you tell me why people exist?

Easy. To create God.

Creating God means advancing the collective human civilization, populating much of the Universe and beyond, and developing a technology that will animate nature to create more of itself.

 

[HonestJoe]

I think what spirituality can be simply described as "magical thinking".

People who believe in a supernatural force I mean. I'm using the term broadly, and it includes everyone not an atheist/agnostic I think pretty much.

The problem with that idea is that atheism/agnosticism are only about belief in the existence of gods. Atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of believing in all sorts of other "magical thinking" and many do one way or another.

I think this whole area is full of poorly defined words because the theological and religious concepts behind them are themselves poorly defined (intentionally or not) and yet people typically still want clear lines between "us" and "them".

 

[an anarchist]

Atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of believing in all sorts of other "magical thinking" and many do one way or another.

Can you elaborate a little bit?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

The problem with that idea is that atheism/agnosticism are only about belief in the existence of gods. Atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of believing in all sorts of other "magical thinking" and many do one way or another.

Many atheists are actually apistevists but atheism is in vogue right now whereas apistevism isn't.

 

[ChristineM]

Easy. To create God.

Creating God means advancing the collective human civilization, populating much of the Universe and beyond, and developing a technology that will animate nature to create more of itself.

So where is this created god?

Sounds like a made up guess to me

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

So where is this created god?

It doesn't exist yet. We have to develop it ourselves. It would be trite to think there is a God that loves us all and cares about us, but it's even more meaningful when we as humans have to create and develop this God ourselves. The Omniverse is already capable of producing a multitude of Universes, but our function as a human species will be to create technology to bend The Omniverse to help us create more living organisms. God is The Omniverse, Entropy and Extropy, however right now Entropy is thousands of times more powerful than human Extropy, so we have to develop our species Extropic output so that it matches the amount of Universal Entropy there is. When we do this, we will in effect create God itself.