Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[rational experiences]

If you want me to answer, you're actually going to need to write something that makes sense.

This is gibberish.

Could care less about your instant nasty returns.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is God omnipotent too?

Yes.

 

[Tiberius]

You can alter your choice right up until the time that you choose the shirt and put it on and wear it.
What God knows you will choose does not affect your choice in any way.
God knows which shirt you will choose to wear because God is all-knowing.

That makes no sense at all.

How can God know today what shirt I will wear tomorrow if I can change it at any time? God still has knowledge of the future that can't be wrong. And if it can't be wrong, then what God has foreseen today MUST be what happens tomorrow. And that means I can't choose to do anything different.

Your argument requires us to throw out all notions of logic and reason.

 

[Tiberius]

I'm not missing anything.
You are putting the cart before the horse.

You are suggesting that God knows you will choose the red shirt,
for instance .. it could just as easily be the blue shirt.

It is not how you are claiming.
A better way to put it, is that if God knows 100% that you will choose the red shirt, it is because you will "FREELY CHOOSE" the red shirt.
It is not that you CAN'T choose the blue shirt. It is that you don't WANT to choose the blue shirt.
If you HAD wanted to choose the blue shirt, then God would have known that.

It is not that you can't alter it. Whatever you WANT to choose, that's what God knows.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've explained all this already to @Sheldon and @KWED

The future is fixed, as you say, with what God knows.
It's not that God fixes it. WE fix it by our choice.
..just as the past is fixed by our choice.

What you are saying does not make sense.

If I watch Aladdin, I know that at the end, Aladdin is going to use his last wish to free Genie. Can Aladdin choose to do something different?

And you have STILL not picked an argument from your post 2342. I will keep asking you until you do so.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm not the one who has to rely on things that are unfalsifiable to make my point...

That does not matter. You rely solely upon personal opinions which are not provable in any way.
Your personal opinions are no better than my beliefs.
Your points are only as valuable as your opinions but my points are as valuable as the scriptures of various religions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes.

Then you just took away free will. God made @Tiberius put on a red shirt.

 

[rational experiences]

We will make the choice that God knows we will make only because God knows what choice we will make, but we are free to choose whatever we want to. God's all-encompassing knowledge does not constrain us in any way, it is simple an attribute of God.

God knows what is going to happen because God has foreknowledge but God does not cause anything to happen. We cause things to happen by making choices and acting on them.

The eternal highest spirit entity is nothing like us.

It is just unconditional love. No judgements knows itself and does not Idealise anything about us at all.

Hence we have and own human free will. Self aware self taught self known living human.

A human will argue. In self presence and human family memory ...taught....group rich inventor man never allowed family earth freedom.

We have free will...no you don't realised.

So we utilise two ideas in self conscious just a human living presence.

In the experience.

Relating ideas to memories and humans have virtually pre lived any experience just a human before us.

So we feel we live holographic also. Psychic idealism.

Choices virtually equals a visionary effect as we live it by community history and not just one self. Community billions today billions in memory of all humans past.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's utterly meaningless.

I might as well claim that I know what you are going to do tomorrow. And if you do somethning different, well, I knew you were going to do that as well.

That how it is with God.....
You cannot know that but God can know it since God has inerrant foreknowledge.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then you just took away free will. God made @Tiberius put on a red shirt.

Explain how God made him wear a red shirt.

 

[Tiberius]

Yes. Almighty God is able to do all things.
That doesn't include logical fallacies
i.e. the logically impossible.

A miracle is not a logical impossibility.
It simply does not obey natural [ God made ] laws.

Seems to me that knowing the future AND people having free will at the same time does indeed count as a logical impossibility.

 

[Tiberius]

Could care less about your instant nasty returns.

You ever notice that nobody ever replies to your posts?

It's because they can't make any sense of them.

Take the hint.

I'm not being nasty. I'm telling you that no one can make any sense of what you say. It's a waste of your own time.

 

[Tiberius]

That does not matter. You rely solely upon personal opinions which are not provable in any way.

I rely on science. I rely on what can be verified by others. I rely on that which can be falsified. You are the one who relies on personal opinions.

Your personal opinions are no better than my beliefs.

I do not rely on opinions. I rely on science, I rely on testable and verifiable evidence.

Your points are only as valuable as your opinions but my points are as valuable as the scriptures of various religions.

Those various religions contradict each other and leave your position a cherry-picked hodge-podge of unsupportable claims that rely on appeals to emotions.

 

[Tiberius]

Then you just took away free will. God made @Tiberius put on a red shirt.

Hey! I'm a Star Trek fan! Wearing a red shirt is dangerous!

 

[Tiberius]

That how it is with God.....
You cannot know that but God can know it since God has inerrant foreknowledge.

That sounds like any number of non-sensical claims I've heard over the years.

 

[Tiberius]

Explain how God made him wear a red shirt.

Because if God saw that I would put on the red shirt, how could I possibly do anything different?

 

[Trailblazer]

That makes no sense at all.

How can God know today what shirt I will wear tomorrow if I can change it at any time? God still has knowledge of the future that can't be wrong. And if it can't be wrong, then what God has foreseen today MUST be what happens tomorrow. And that means I can't choose to do anything different.

Your argument requires us to throw out all notions of logic and reason.

I know this is difficult for you. It is difficult for every atheist I have ever known, and I have been posting about it to atheists for nine years. As I recall one atheist understood it on this forum, but unfortunately I forgot who he was.

How can God know today what shirt I will wear tomorrow if I can change it at any time? God still has knowledge of the future that can't be wrong. And if it can't be wrong, then what God has foreseen today MUST be what happens tomorrow. And that means I can't choose to do anything different.

Time only exists for humans on earth. God does not exist in time so there is no such thing as today and tomorrow for God.

God's knowledge surrounds the realities of all things simultaneously so everything that we have done are doing or will ever do is recorded in the Mind of God.

God always knew what color shirt you would choose because God is all-knowing but God's knowledge in no way determines what color shirt you will choose. You determine the color of the shirt by choosing it. You will chose the color of shirt God has always known you will choose simply because God has always known what color shirt you will choose.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because if God saw that I would put on the red shirt, how could I possibly do anything different?

You will put on the red shirt, not because God made you put it on but because you chose to put it on.
You had free will to choose to put on the red shirt and you chose to put it on. God knew you would put it on because God is all-knowing.

 

[Trailblazer]

Seems to me that knowing the future AND people having free will at the same time does indeed count as a logical impossibility.

Please explain why it is a logical impossibility.

 

[Trailblazer]

I rely on science. I rely on what can be verified by others. I rely on that which can be falsified. You are the one who relies on personal opinions.

You are in the dog house right now because your personal opinions about God and religion are not scientific nor are they verifiable. You did not think I was going to catch that? I caught it immediately.

I do not rely on opinions. I rely on science, I rely on testable and verifiable evidence.

Oh no you don't. You do not rely upon testable and verifiable evidence for anything you are saying about God or religion since there is no such evidence for God or religion.

Those various religions contradict each other and leave your position a cherry-picked hodge-podge of unsupportable claims that rely on appeals to emotions.

I have explained why the various religions contradict each other and it is a drop dead logical explanation.

Religion does not appeal to my emotions, it only appeals to my higher rational mind. If I lived by my emotions I would not be on this forum talking to atheists. I would be doing something enjoyable, something hedonistic.

Try to put two and two together as you watch this short clip, and you will know why I am here.

 

[CG Didymus]

Seems to me that knowing the future AND people having free will at the same time does indeed count as a logical impossibility.

All this red shirt stuff makes me think of all the vague prophecies. If knows exactly what's going to happen, then why not make it plain. Why not say in exactly this many years I'm going to send the next manifestation. After him I'm going to send two guys. But no, he makes it so there can be several contradictory interpretations and multiple people claiming to be the guy.

And God knows everything? So he knows the way he's doing things causes lots of people to fight and argue over what the different manifestations have said? And he knows that most people in most all religions just barely put any of the teachings into practice? And he knows that some of the teachings about him are wrong but let's it go on for centuries? He knows what it would take to convince an atheist, but he doesn't do it? So what do we know about this God? We know that different people say and believe different things about him... Even how many Gods there are. So it doesn't mean much to say that this unprovable God knows everything.