Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[CG Didymus]

Not being human has nothing to do with it; if God has unlimited ability, that means he has the ability to speak English.

Funny, other religions have God doing all sorts of things that proves he exists. Even if it is not him directly, the Bible has angels and the "Angel of the Lord" appearing. But Baha'is change things up a little...

Baha’is do believe in angels, although not in the usual sense. For Baha’is, angels symbolize selfless people who have devoted themselves to service in this life, and who continue to exert a positive influence from the next world.​

But they do believe God gives visions to people...

When Bahá'u'lláh was imprisoned in the Síyáh-Chál, He had a series of visions which revealed to Him that He was the Promised One of all ages. In his vision, a Maid of Heaven appeared in front of Him, pointed at His head, saying:

By God, This is indeed the Beloved of the universe, but ye do not understand! This is the Beauty of God among you, and His Dominion within you, if ye are those who know! This is the Mystery of God, His Treasure, the Command of God, and His Glory, to those who are in the Kingdom of power and creation - were ye of those who reason! This is the One whose Presence is the ardent desire of the denizens of the Realm of eternity, and of them that dwell within the Tabernacle of glory, and yet from His Beauty do ye turn aside.​

But of course, this is the manifestation. So, he was specially made to be able to communicate with God. Does that mean others can't be given a vision from God? I don't know. Some Baha'is claim to have had visions of Abdul Baha. And I do believe there is one Baha'i here on the forum that says he had a vision. If so, God could do it. I hope if he does, it is the maid of heaven instead of Abdul Baha'. Nice guy, I'm sure. But she's a vision to behold.

​

 

[rational experiences]

No, I asked if your dad had the ability to communicate with God.

My human father was just my human father. Non religious ..had been in war and saw so much death so he had no need to believe that love existed. No he didn't talk to God.

I was taught myself by visions. By my own personal suffering. Glad I wasn't suffering as badly as other family were. It had to stop. All the lying.

So I learnt.

The eternal God doesn't talk. I had an experience. Have you?

God in the heavens was man of sciences machine caused life attack outcome of human voice image recorded.

Half of life's used ground bio water flew off taken into new cloud amassing the reason. To contradict gas burning fallout Stephen Hawking life sacrificed warning.

Ice not consciousness is the saviour.
Water flooding the burning gas heavens not consciousness saved us.

Use your own mind for once instead of indoctrinated self possession loving your own self image. The warning. Don't self human idolise.

Which most of you blatantly ignore.

 

[rational experiences]

I've had lots of visions myself.

In healing in dinosaur life destroyed twice my brother scientist was embedded in the advice.

I wondered if technology existed with dinosaurs. So researched. Instead I learnt his first nothing formula as a human theist meant gods earth physical removal back to nothing.

How he destroyed all life on earth. Why we taught Satan was our human brother a scientist by choice. By machine status self removal ownership.

Not natural God earth. Science. Human first who quantified Satanism.

Meaning of. He lived a life holy. Activated machine. Lost ground oxygenated life water. It atmospheric reacted and biological human life was sacrificed.

A humans caused satanic attack.

Ice saved water on earth came out of nothing as an answer of causes. His human formula invented machine reactor. Owned the future of causes of space pressure changes.

Why he predicted by his human only maths use 2012 an end. That science did not allow. Baha'i predicted warning re irradiated mind. He told them the conditions of a non beautiful mind who theories scientific destruction by possession of the information.

Communicated in fallout. Saw it re emerging in the want rebuilding of temple pyramid science. The same as Moses to Jesus returned.

It is human evolution healed notified.

Why men said ice was his saviour yet ice belonged to earth holding its stone fusion as stone rock also. Gods saviour. Frozen ice the teaching stated not sacrificed.

Gods saviour not sacrificed. Gods saviour sacrificed... life gets sacrificed then saved by water mass replacement the teaching advice.

After the fact.

So when men with machines formed sin K holes nothing it was proof man's scientist is a liar destroyer of gods body.

Earth.

He theories maths science against it as minus one.

He tries to coerce human belief that their life then came from out of space the sin hole he caused.

Previously it was dusts.

When dust built his machine then his reaction in the machine.

Earths heavens keeps earths god space sin hole cool.

Machines nothing hole is hot radiation. Not heavens owner.

He theories it first in earths heavens where the natural gas bodies are.

Stephen Hawking known aware conscious warning. Acutely advised by body conditions as advice.

Men of science claim the new world order should not be allowed.

The organisation originally against the new was first the sciences establishment.

As spiritual war became the humans organised fight... rights for life's spirituality. It needed a world community spiritually agreed communing body.

Why the community emerged into a new agreement which was never a scientific organisation. It was against sciences practices.

Who were in the past the medical practitioner healer. Not ever a scientist.

The teaching Jesus the man was a human healer not a scientist.

 

[Trailblazer]

If I can't prove God exists outside your mind then it can only exist inside your mind, that was easy.

No, that is not how logic works.

It's like this: If you cannot prove that God does not exist in reality then God could exist in reality, which means that God does not only exist inside my mind.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your expressions of belief if not evidence of a god. It is merely evidence of your belief.

That is correct. Beliefs are not evidence at all.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not being human has nothing to do with it; if God has unlimited ability, that means he has the ability to speak English.

Even if God could speak English you could never understand God.

Do you really even care if God exists or are you just going to keep talking about what God could do?
Why would it matter what God could do if God never does it? Or do you think that God is suddenly going to do an about face and do what you want Him to do?

 

[ppp]

That is correct. Beliefs are not evidence at all.

Ah. I thought you were trying to provide evidence for your first bullet point. Where you were actually only expressing that belief, without evidence.

 

[lukethethird]

No, that is not how logic works.

It's like this: If you cannot prove that God does not exist in reality then God could exist in reality, which means that God does not only exist inside my mind.

Logically one cannot prove a negative, which means that all you have is a belief of God, all in your mind of course.

 

[CG Didymus]

Logically one cannot prove a negative, which means that all you have is a belief of God, all in your mind of course.

What funny, meaning sad, is that if we asked a Baha'i where the trinitarian God of the Christians existed, I would not be surprised if the answer would be, "In their mind".

 

[Trailblazer]

How then do you verify that it's absolute proof?

Verification is not necessary if knowledge was bestowed by God to that person.

Good for you. You being sure something is true doesn't convince me one bit.

Why would it?

Is that why your position is so wishy washy?

I'd rather be that way than stuck with the same opinions, never open to learning new things.

You completely missed my point, didn't you?

"How likely is it that a person is a messenger from God, given that God has never sent messengers except in Bible stories that can never be verified?"

What was your point?

I gotta wonder why the ALMIGHTY even bothers with a strategy that wouldn't have been successful after 3600 years.

Most people in the world believe in God because of a Messenger of God so God's strategy has been very successful.

84 percent of the world population has a faith.

Because most faiths have a religious Founder or what I call a Messenger that means most people believe in God because of a Messenger. We know that Christians and Muslims believe in a Messenger and they comprise 55% of the world population. It does not matter if you call them a Messenger; they are holy men who founded the religions, so they are intermediaries between God and man. Sure, there are a few believers who believe in God but not a Messenger but that is not the norm. The point is that with no Messengers or holy men very few people would believe in God.

So then you mentioning the number was absolutely pointless then, wasn't it?

No, I had another point to make.

Change "Booming voice of God" to "messenger of God" and it's essentially the same.

It is the same.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah. I thought you were trying to provide evidence for your first bullet point. Where you were actually only expressing that belief, without evidence.

What bullet point?

 

[Trailblazer]

Logically one cannot prove a negative, which means that all you have is a belief of God, all in your mind of course.

No, that is not logical at all.
Just because God cannot be proven not to exist that does not mean that God does not exist.

God either exists or God does not exist. My belief in God has nothing to do with it.

 

[ppp]

What bullet point?

Your belief that "1. God exists and there is evidence so we should look for the evidence."

 

[Trailblazer]

Your belief that "1. God exists and there is evidence so we should look for the evidence."

Yes, that is what I believe but I don't know what post that came from.

 

[Tiberius]

Verification is not necessary if knowledge was bestowed by God to that person.

Of course it is.

Otherwise you'll have people who think their own opinion is knowledge bestowed by God (when it really wasn't), and they never bother verifying it because they think they don't need to.

Why would it?

Then why do you bring it up?

I'd rather be that way than stuck with the same opinions, never open to learning new things.

Except you don't. Your wishy-washiness is so you can switch lines of reasoning so you can cling to the same beliefs. I've never seen you change your beliefs.

"How likely is it that a person is a messenger from God, given that God has never sent messengers except in Bible stories that can never be verified?"

What was your point?

That we need verification. And real verification, not that fake verification you seem to be a fan of.

Most people in the world believe in God because of a Messenger of God so God's strategy has been very successful.

84 percent of the world population has a faith.

Because most faiths have a religious Founder or what I call a Messenger that means most people believe in God because of a Messenger. We know that Christians and Muslims believe in a Messenger and they comprise 55% of the world population. It does not matter if you call them a Messenger; they are holy men who founded the religions, so they are intermediaries between God and man. Sure, there are a few believers who believe in God but not a Messenger but that is not the norm. The point is that with no Messengers or holy men very few people would believe in God.

Argument from popularity.

No, I had another point to make.

Have you made it then? If not, you better get to it.

It is the same.

Then how is it not your logic?

 

[lukethethird]

No, that is not logical at all.
Just because God cannot be proven not to exist that does not mean that God does not exist.

God either exists or God does not exist. My belief in God has nothing to do with it.

This is typical of believers, always trying to shift the onus of proof because they cannot justify their belief in an invisible god. Better you than me, the cognitive dissonance would drive me crazy.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course it is.

Otherwise you'll have people who think their own opinion is knowledge bestowed by God (when it really wasn't), and they never bother verifying it because they think they don't need to.

I did verify it.

Then why do you bring it up?

I didn't.

Except you don't. Your wishy-washiness is so you can switch lines of reasoning so you can cling to the same beliefs. I've never seen you change your beliefs.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. When did you change your beliefs?

That we need verification. And real verification, not that fake verification you seem to be a fan of.

How do you think you can verify that a Messenger got messages from God?

Argument from popularity.

That does not change the fact that most people believe in God because of Messengers, which as my point.

Have you made it then? If not, you better get to it.

I am not going back over old points that are not important, I don't have the time. I am fielding atheists on two other forums now.

Then how is it not your logic?

It has nothing to do with logic. Both are methods of communication and the booming voice has to be believed the same way the Messenger has to be believed. That is why they are the same.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is typical of believers, always trying to shift the onus of proof because they cannot justify their belief in an invisible god.

I do not have to justify my beliefs.
God is invisible because God chooses to remain invisible.
An omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, period.

 

[lukethethird]

I do not have to justify my beliefs.
God is invisible because God chooses to remain invisible.
An omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, period.

Like I already stated, better you than me, the cognitive dissonance would drive me crazy.

 

[Truthseeker]

Why not raise the spiritual capacity of people so they don't so easily follow their lower nature? I have an answer, because God wants us to use our free will to raise our own capacity.

Can we raise our own capacity? We can live up to our capacity as it is, but can we raise our capacity? That's a question I don't know the answer to. You raise an interesting question.

Action is essential. Inasmuch as this century is a century of light, capacity for action is assured to mankind. Necessarily the divine principles will be spread among men until the time of action arrives. Surely this has been so, and truly the time and conditions are ripe for action now.
(The Promulgation of Universal Peace)
www.bahai.org/r/467723418

The suckling babe passeth through various physical stages, growing and developing at every stage, until its body reacheth the age of maturity. Having arrived at this stage it acquireth the capacity to manifest spiritual and intellectual perfections. The lights of comprehension, intelligence and knowledge become perceptible in it and the powers of its soul unfold. Similarly, in the contingent world, the human species hath undergone progressive physical changes and, by a slow process, hath scaled the ladder of civilization, realizing in itself the wonders, excellencies and gifts of humanity in their most glorious form, until it gained the capacity to express the splendors of spiritual perfections and divine ideals and became capable of hearkening to the call of God. Then at last the call of the Kingdom was raised, the spiritual virtues and perfections were revealed, the Sun of Reality dawned, and the teachings of the Most Great Peace, of the oneness of the world of humanity and of the universality of men, were promoted. We hope that the effulgence of these rays shall become more and more intense, and the ideal virtues more resplendent, so that the goal of this universal human process will be attained and the love of God will appear in the utmost grace and beauty and bedazzle all hearts.
(Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá)
www.bahai.org/r/384418069

The divine Jerusalem has come down from heaven. The bride of Zion has appeared. The voice of the Kingdom of God has been raised. May you attain supreme capacity and magnetic attraction in this realm of might and power—manifesting new energy and wonderful accomplishment, for God is your Assister and Helper. The breath of the Holy Spirit is your comforter, and the angels of heaven surround you. I desire this power for you. Rest assured that these bounties now overshadow you.
(The Promulgation of Universal Peace)
www.bahai.org/r/075454706

It looks like God increases our capacity over time and we increase our capacity, also, maybe. Increasing our own capacity with the assistance of God. Capacity was increased by God through our physical evolution, and also through the increase of the grace of God over time by a more intense Revelation.