Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Trailblazer]

Irrelevant. You can pick any quality that an animal has and then use that as a yardstick by which to measure, and then show that this animal is the best. You just happened to pick something that we are good at using our brains for, and then claimed that it was the best measure of intelligence.

Based upon the definition of intelligence I would say that humans are more intelligent than any other animal.

Intelligence: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=intelligence+definition

I don't see any other species waging war over ideological beliefs except Humans. Does that make us more or less intelligent?

That has nothing to do with intelligence. Other animals do not have ideological beliefs so they have no reason to wage war over them. Other animals also do not have the capacity to wage war.

 

[Truthseeker]

The proper way to VERIFY what a religion teaches is to actually research the religion yourself, as @Truthseeker9 explained in this post. #247

Flattered by your reference.

 

[Tiberius]

Proof does not indicate, it proves.

Proof indicates but it does more than just indicate, it establishes.

Do you see why people find your position so hard to believe? It's because you keep changing it.

 

[Tiberius]

That is correct.

Right, so since we both agree that I used my own views and not the views of other people, we know I did it right, don't we?

You should not JUDGE a religion based upon what other people say about it. Reading what people post on a forum and then forming an opinion from that is not verification. The proper way to VERIFY what a religion teaches is to actually research the religion yourself, as @Truthseeker9 explained in this post. #247

And what makes you think you know what I've researched in order to reach my conclusion? I have researched the religions, I've been researching them for twenty years now. I reached my conclusion and verified it in exactly the way you described.

You should be congratulating me for reaching a conclusion that I have verified as accurate.

 

[Tiberius]

Based upon the definition of intelligence I would say that humans are more intelligent than any other animal.

Intelligence: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
intelligence definition - Google Search

So what? Lots of animals have the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. Sometimes even better than Humans! Chimps outperform humans at memory task | New Scientist

That has nothing to do with intelligence. Other animals do not have ideological beliefs so they have no reason to wage war over them. Other animals also do not have the capacity to wage war.

Well, we're certainly not intelligent enough to avoid war over ideological beliefs, are we?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you see why people find your position so hard to believe? It's because you keep changing it.

I have been saying the same thing about proof and evidence all along and explaining the difference between the two.

 

[Trailblazer]

Right, so since we both agree that I used my own views and not the views of other people, we know I did it right, don't we?

Did you form your own views based upon your own research or were you unduly influenced by what I and other people have said on this forum?

And what makes you think you know what I've researched in order to reach my conclusion? I have researched the religions, I've been researching them for twenty years now. I reached my conclusion and verified it in exactly the way you described.

I don't question that but have you researched the Baha'i Faith? That is what we re discussing.

You should be congratulating me for reaching a conclusion that I have verified as accurate.

I don't see how it can be verified as accurate unless you researched the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

So what? Lots of animals have the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. Sometimes even better than Humans! Chimps outperform humans at memory task | New Scientist

Sure they do, but only for their own usage and domain. They cannot acquire and apply knowledge and skills that will help humans as we can develop knowledge and skills that help animals. The knowledge and skills that humans have can be used to do just about anything, so we can effect plants, animals, and the environment and create governments that can collaborate for the good of the whole. Animals can do no such things.

Well, we're certainly not intelligent enough to avoid war over ideological beliefs, are we?

That is unrelated to intelligence, it is related to how wise humans are.

 

[Tiberius]

I have been saying the same thing about proof and evidence all along and explaining the difference between the two.

Excuse me? You literally said proof does not indicate and then later said proof DOES indicate. These are two completely opposite and contradictory statements, and there is no way they can be reconciled with each other.

 

[Tiberius]

Did you form your own views based upon your own research or were you unduly influenced by what I and other people have said on this forum?

I did my own research.

But why do you ask? Do you think that what you've said about Baha'i faith would turn some people away from it?

I don't question that but have you researched the Baha'i Faith? That is what we re discussing.

I have researched all religions I could learn about.

I don't see how it can be verified as accurate unless you researched the Baha'i Faith.

Yeah, I've looked into Baha'i.

 

[Tiberius]

Sure they do, but only for their own usage and domain. They cannot acquire and apply knowledge and skills that will help humans as we can develop knowledge and skills that help animals. The knowledge and skills that humans have can be used to do just about anything, so we can effect plants, animals, and the environment and create governments that can collaborate for the good of the whole. Animals can do no such things.

Are you serious? Animals can't be intelligent unless they use their intelligence to help Humans? What an arrogant and human centered idea.

And that's demonstrably wrong anyway. There have been many cases of wild animals taking actions purely to help Humans.

That is unrelated to intelligence, it is related to how wise humans are.

Are you seriously saying that wisdom is not related at all to intelligence?

 

[rational experiences]

A human says standing on a planet inside it's heavens ..

the creator I will name as God.

What I have dominion over means by human egotism.

Who names everything as a human no matter if it is on earth or in space.

Dominion over everything a human claim.

Earth as God being named as human science machine beginnings. Plus all substances he calls science to own convert. The planet.

So planet earth he named as God. God the entity created its heavens from out of its own body.

God.

And you want to argue science terminology today.

Real reason to argue. I want to know what you believe ancient humans knew in their science practice.

As I want new technology and New invention new resourcing and more monetary benefits. The motivation.

Seeing science came from past old man's science practice why did you change invention machine building and resource status.

As human men invented the practice science?

Real reason old science blew up. Ended by a massive earth and heavens change. Why I decided to try a new sonication to not cause the same result again.

Meanwhile life is just dying sacrificed in a lesser irradiating cause than instant huge blasting of gods bodies.

So community asks is it too late to save our life.

As a victim I challenged science because of life's victimisation. Ask all the unnaturally deceased is it too late to stop science and save life!!

So is life in a lesser science atmospheric do sonic less harmed science already.

As a human thinker I am advised.

Seeing you created the result.

Is that result existing mighty brother creator your answer already?

Yes.

But now you want a new science to claim it will cause it as a better practiced science?

Yes.

But it is already naturally occurring?

Yes.

How our brother claiming he is God the creator gets us life destroyed. Possessed by his preceding answers in natural observation.

 

[Sheldon]

Based upon the definition of intelligence I would say that humans are more intelligent than any other animal.

Intelligence: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
intelligence definition - Google Search

That has nothing to do with intelligence. Other animals do not have ideological beliefs so they have no reason to wage war over them. Other animals also do not have the capacity to wage war.

"The entire Corvid family of birds is clever. The group includes magpies, jays, ravens, and crows. These birds are the only non-primate vertebrates that invent their own tools. Crows recognize human faces, communicate complex concepts with other crows, and think about the future. Many experts compare crow intelligence to that of a 7-year-old human child."

"Chimps are our closest relatives in the animal kingdom, so it's unsurprising they display intelligence similar to that of humans. Chimps fashion spears and other tools, display a wide range of emotions, and recognize themselves in a mirror. Chimps can learn sign language to communicate with humans."

"Elephants have the largest brains of any land animal. The cortex of an elephant's brain has as many neurons as a human brain. Elephants have exceptional memories, cooperate with each other, and demonstrate self-awareness. Like primates and birds, they engage in play."

"Like humans and chimps, gorillas are primates. The gorilla named Koko became famous for learning sign language and caring for a pet cat. Gorillas can form original sentences to communicate with humans and understand the use of symbols to represent objects and more complex concepts."

"Dolphins and whales are at least as smart as birds and primates. Like primates, dolphins and whales are mammals. A dolphin has a large brain relative to its body size. The cortex of a human brain is highly convoluted, but a dolphin brain has even more folds! Dolphins and their kin are the only marine animals that have passed the mirror test of self-awareness."

"Pigs solve mazes, understand and display emotions, and understand symbolic language. Piglets grasp the concept of reflection at a younger age than humans. Six-week-old piglets that see food in a mirror can work out where the food is located. In contrast, it takes human babies several months to understand reflection. Pigs also understand abstract representations and can apply this skill to play video games using a joystick."

"While we're most familiar with intelligence in other vertebrates, some invertebrates are incredibly clever. The octopus has the largest brain of any invertebrate, yet three-fifths of its neurons are actually in its arms. The octopus is the only invertebrate that uses tools. An octopus named Otto was known to throw rocks and spray water at the bright overhead lights of his aquarium in order to short them out."

"Parrots are thought to be as smart as a human child. These birds solve puzzles and also understand the concept of cause and effect. The Einstein of the parrot world is the African Grey, a bird known for its astounding memory and ability to count. African Grey parrots can learn an impressive number of human words and use them in context to communicate with people."

"Man's best friend uses its intelligence to relate to humans. Dogs understand emotions, show empathy, and understand symbolic language. According to canine intelligence expert Stanley Coren, the average dog understand around 165 human words. However, they can learn many more. A border collie named Chaser demonstrated understanding of 1022 words. An analysis of his vocabulary was published in the February 2011 issue of the Behavioural Processes Journal."

"
Aesop's fable of the Crow and the Pitcher could have been written about a raccoon. Researchers at the USDA National Wildlife Center and the University of Wyoming gave raccoons a pitcher of water containing marshmallows and some pebbles. In order to reach the marshmallows, the raccoons had to raise the water level. Half of the raccoons figured out how to use pebbles to get the treat. Another simply found a way to knock over the pitcher.Raccoons are also notoriously good at picking locks and can remember solutions to problems for three years."

Can You Name the 10 Most Intelligent Animals?

 

[Sheldon]

I have been saying the same thing about proof and evidence all along and explaining the difference between the two.

Could you explain what you think the difference is?

 

[rational experiences]

Reasoning human about nature says it proves nature had come out of the same higher spirit conscious aware body that humans had. One by Two of each pre owned self owned spirit bodies.

To prove how intelligent conscious eternal pre existence is and was.

As a bird is tiny a body compared to a human. Yet intelligence proves it pre existed spiritually.

As modern animal came out of spirit with humans. In the same event new life instant.

 

[Trailblazer]

Excuse me? You literally said proof does not indicate and then later said proof DOES indicate. These are two completely opposite and contradictory statements, and there is no way they can be reconciled with each other.

I said: Proof indicates but it does more than just indicate, it establishes.
#2258 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 11:01 PM

Why are you splitting hairs? According to the definition of indicate proof indicates:

indicate
[ in-di-keyt ]
See synonyms for: indicate / indicated / indicates / indicating on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), in·di·cat·ed, in·di·cat·ing.
to be a sign of; betoken; evidence; show: His hesitation really indicates his doubt about the venture.
to point out or point to; direct attention to: to indicate a place on a map.
to show, as by measuring or recording; make known: The thermometer indicates air temperature.
to state or express, especially briefly or in a general way; signal: He indicated his disapproval but did not go into detail.
Medicine/Medical.

1. (of symptoms) to point out (a particular remedy, treatment, etc.) as suitable or necessary.
2. to show the presence of (a condition, infection, etc.).

Definition of indicate | Dictionary.com

According to the definition of establish proof establishes:

establish
[ ih-stab-lish ]
See synonyms for: establish / established / establishes / establishing on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object)
to found, institute, build, or bring into being on a firm or stable basis: to establish a university; to establish a medical practice.
to install or settle in a position, place, business, etc.: to establish one's child in business.
to show to be valid or true; prove: to establish the facts of the matter.
to cause to be accepted or recognized: to establish a custom; She established herself as a leading surgeon.
to bring about permanently: to establish order.
to enact, appoint, or ordain for permanence, as a law; fix unalterably

 

[rational experiences]

To requantify human reasoning.

Animals came out of spirit first. No God man human present consciously. No theist no ark built. After ice age no dinosaurs killed off.

UFO ark hit ararat. Science of man pyramid cause. Sky burnt all heavenly records gone. Cooled records of re order life re emerged. Man irradiated saw records re emerge as birds came out first.

When I was irradiated I saw men of old by costume emerged in the burning. Wispy brown smoke black smoke. Human old records burnt. Cooled. Re emerged floated off.

Reason we see ghosts from the past.

So I understood why ark UFO irradiated man saw old records of life emergence recorded only as proof we came out of eternal and not clouds as cooling re emerged.

Why he said from one place owning naturally two selves.

In science of man head. Satan old man cloud memory direct to new science. Pyramid only.

Eradicated natural spirit memories.

Why he falsified evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

I did my own research.

I have researched all religions I could learn about.

Yeah, I've looked into Baha'i.

Okay, only you know what you have done.

But why do you ask? Do you think that what you've said about Baha'i faith would turn some people away from it?

I asked because you said you used your own judgment and verified there was nothing special about it.

No, I just used my own judgement and I have VERIFIED that there is nothing special about your faith, and that Baha'i is built on the same logical fallacies and unsupported claims as any other religion.
#2255 Tiberius, Yesterday at 8:55 PM

What I say might turn some people away from it because they might not like the teachings or the laws or the principles or the vision of the Baha'i Faith. It has nothing to do with me because all I do is impart accurate information about the religion. The Baha'i Faith does not appeal to everyone for various and sundry reasons. Most people just want to maintain the status quo, the religion they were raised in, they don't want to see any change. The Baha'i Faith is a religion of change.

If people do not believe that the world needs a new religion why would they want to join the Baha'i Faith?
Most religious people are waiting for Jesus to return or for the promised Messiah to of their religion to come and they will continue to wait until hell freezes over. Meanwhile the Baha'is are working on building a new world order.

 

[Tiberius]

A human says standing on a planet inside it's heavens ..

the creator I will name as God.

What I have dominion over means by human egotism.

Who names everything as a human no matter if it is on earth or in space.

Dominion over everything a human claim.

Earth as God being named as human science machine beginnings. Plus all substances he calls science to own convert. The planet.

So planet earth he named as God. God the entity created its heavens from out of its own body.

God.

And you want to argue science terminology today.

Real reason to argue. I want to know what you believe ancient humans knew in their science practice.

As I want new technology and New invention new resourcing and more monetary benefits. The motivation.

Seeing science came from past old man's science practice why did you change invention machine building and resource status.

As human men invented the practice science?

Real reason old science blew up. Ended by a massive earth and heavens change. Why I decided to try a new sonication to not cause the same result again.

Meanwhile life is just dying sacrificed in a lesser irradiating cause than instant huge blasting of gods bodies.

So community asks is it too late to save our life.

As a victim I challenged science because of life's victimisation. Ask all the unnaturally deceased is it too late to stop science and save life!!

So is life in a lesser science atmospheric do sonic less harmed science already.

As a human thinker I am advised.

Seeing you created the result.

Is that result existing mighty brother creator your answer already?

Yes.

But now you want a new science to claim it will cause it as a better practiced science?

Yes.

But it is already naturally occurring?

Yes.

How our brother claiming he is God the creator gets us life destroyed. Possessed by his preceding answers in natural observation.

Again, there is no decipherable meaning here. I fear you are wasting your time unless you post something that can actually be understood by others.

 

[Tiberius]

I said: Proof indicates but it does more than just indicate, it establishes.
#2258 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 11:01 PM

Why are you splitting hairs? According to the definition of indicate proof indicates:

indicate
[ in-di-keyt ]
See synonyms for: indicate / indicated / indicates / indicating on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), in·di·cat·ed, in·di·cat·ing.
to be a sign of; betoken; evidence; show: His hesitation really indicates his doubt about the venture.
to point out or point to; direct attention to: to indicate a place on a map.
to show, as by measuring or recording; make known: The thermometer indicates air temperature.
to state or express, especially briefly or in a general way; signal: He indicated his disapproval but did not go into detail.
Medicine/Medical.

1. (of symptoms) to point out (a particular remedy, treatment, etc.) as suitable or necessary.
2. to show the presence of (a condition, infection, etc.).

Definition of indicate | Dictionary.com

According to the definition of establish proof establishes:

establish
[ ih-stab-lish ]
See synonyms for: establish / established / establishes / establishing on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object)
to found, institute, build, or bring into being on a firm or stable basis: to establish a university; to establish a medical practice.
to install or settle in a position, place, business, etc.: to establish one's child in business.
to show to be valid or true; prove: to establish the facts of the matter.
to cause to be accepted or recognized: to establish a custom; She established herself as a leading surgeon.
to bring about permanently: to establish order.
to enact, appoint, or ordain for permanence, as a law; fix unalterably

Then why is it that back in post 2250, you said, "Proof does not indicate"?

You clearly said proof does NOT indicate and now you say it does. You are inconsistent.