Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Trailblazer]

Of course they have, just because their answers don't satisfy your expectations doesn't mean they haven't answered you.

That was five months ago so I cannot recall the answers.
Can you give me some examples of answers?

 

[Sheldon]

That was five months ago so I cannot recall the answers.
Can you give me some examples of answers?

Yes, read the thread.

 

[rational experiences]

A human says I'm intelligent.

Science proved him wrong.

Science a living mans thesis whose status said God told me is wielded against life today. Unable to continue to exist.

The theme I'm a theist and my own hu man words talking to myself is first theorising. I believed I knew about forms presence. Substance.

I had in fact gained a mind vision when a burning falling star arrived in earths heavens wandering that burnt my mind brain.

How I gained a past vision first. In cooling. About how to react convert.

Not knowing what hydrogen is as it burns. Hence I don't know what suns substance is.

Of gods body reacting burning converting into a sin hole itself.

The sin of the God body was first attacked by the rebelling God the sun. The sun that caused stars in big bang blast.

I theoried about converting only. No theories are relative to the blasting advice.

As non blasting earth God and non reacting existed just rock first. Rome shut book ended on rock advice human taught.

I built machines which was in fact by Alchemy and I stopped the blasting advice in melt then physically cooled mass to build a machine. I claim in mind at the position melt that I controlled it. I hadn't I lied.

Machine to react safely then applied another conversion of God earths mass. Twice. The two of inventive science.

Gods body told me how.

How to copy a reaction yet it was visionary first.

I learnt don't believe in God.

As the theist. As my theoried causes destroyed all life on earth.

As melt is exact to what I caused volcanoes earths gas heavens arise beginning owned melt itself.

Exact melt equals melt.

In gods body melt was held cooled by gods form the rock stone in Seams.

I theoried gases first from volcanic melt beginnings. In space void dense gas released would have first owned thunderous lightning heavens developing.

Blue light sky holy created highest light term. So don't change the holiness of our light sky.

Was the scientific man warning living inside the heavenly body.

Man holy father consciousness first. Not a theist not a scientist gains visions. The visions own science status men teaching themes. He thinks first spiritually about family life.

Tells two themes. The falling star. Time era shroud of Turin sacrifice came. Holy mind conscious Christ changed. Advised humanity why. Wars about science wanting to rebuild temple pyramid. In that era.

Is murdered. As he told his star advice. Falling star sacrificed life. Wandering star passed by.

He told two themes. Man's owned scientific theism lying...and father's family human unity response. Given advice conscious change AI status of man theist heard.

As theist said first I never heeded or took my holy father's spiritual human life advice. Position natural mind psyche self owned man adult.

Is not lying.

Now if humans felt comforted by the realisation humans are family first holy and spiritual and equal. They took comfort in the belief family humanity would reunite.

As stars fall gave them the realisation humans aren't actually evil or god punished. Science a man's choice caused it.

Is not scientific.

So science the liar who by organisation abused human family as brother to idealise brothers rich man gained life status..
Abnormal abusive human history...artificial status itself imposed..to be rich imbalanced living status equal.

Then the science mans own life was abused.

Man's answer about the reasons was falling star terms.

Everyday you want star advice points for scientific communication thesis that communications will channel electricity.

AI.

AI rich man introduced. AI today believed by rich man is exact.

Artificial control in equal human life. Artificial controlled technology.

Man it's designer. Man uses machines that exist in earths natural point melt lies about claiming Ai intelligent.

Star particles stay up above voiding.

You used gods down below particles yourself.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Yes, read the thread.

I read like 30+ pages.. Found no posts by any of the proclaimed atheists to venture to even attempt an answer. Questions are not answers to a question, they are a refusal of response or like you said of the theists 'reticent' in nature.

Ask me anything you want about a flingallopsy by the way.

Is a flingallopsy mineral plant or animal? Is it metaphysical or material? Is it inanimate living or created?

I will, if you allow, give you a required level of evidence for such a claim.

Granted, your analogy has a nagging flaw and difference: Religion and the idea of a deity as well as the assumed traits of such deities have been known since time immemorial... Meanwhile a 'flingallopsy' was (as far as we know) just created on the ninth day of March in the year 2022 at 7:20pm. (yesterday, it was literally born yesterday)...

Therefore, I think my task to accomplish the same request that was asked of you, will be exponentially more difficult, unless you would rather not play along with the thought experiment you proposed.

 

[Tiberius]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!

Yes, I can save some for you if you'd like. Makes excellent fertilizer, makes your flowers bloom like you wouldn't believe.

I thought your kind was extinct! Are you chromatic or metallic?

Both, I'm just that awesome.

Mind if I got a photo with you?

By all means!

 

[Tiberius]

It certainly is logically sound for the person making the claim to tell us what the evidence is that supports His claim. Who else is going to tell us what the evidence is, the flying spaghetti monster?

Baha'u'llah told us what the evidence is that supports His claims. The Writings are part of the evidence but they are not the first things He told us to look at. His own self and His Revelation are the first things we are to look at and if those are insufficient we are to look at His Writings (the words He hath revealed).

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

His own Self is who He was, His character (His qualities). That can be determined by reading about Him in books such as the following: The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4

His Revelation is what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)
That can be determined by reading about His mission in books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

The words He hath revealed is what He wrote can be found in books that are posted online: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

When the person making the claim is the same guy providing the evidence for the claim, you should immediately be suspicious. I've already demonstrated how I can use that to provide evidence supporting the claim I can turn into a fire breathing dragon.

 

[Tiberius]

The Writings are not the evidence. If you still do not understand after all this time, you never will.

Okay, let's eliminate ALL of his writings. Now, where's the evidence?

 

[Tiberius]

I won't be listening to any more of your complaints and criticisms because I don't have to.
This is just a forum, not a real life job.
I am not your waiter who is obligated to bring you evidence to your liking.
I won't be wasting any more time covering the same old ground.
If you don't know my position by now you never will.
You are free to disregard anything you want to disregard.
If nothing means anything to you and no evidence is sufficient, then happy trails.

The only obligation you have here is to provide actual evidence to support the claims you make. Don't be surprised when people call you out on the fact that your evidence is wishful thinking and logical fallacies.

And don't hide behind the "I'm not making any claims" excuse.

 

[samtonga43]

Okay, let's eliminate ALL of his writings. Now, where's the evidence?

This is what I would like to know. Where IS this evidence? (and not just any old evidence, but objective factual evidence, according to Tb.)

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Yes, I can save some for you if you'd like. Makes excellent fertilizer, makes your flowers bloom like you wouldn't believe.

Well, the flowers react to the positive energy, so I will choose to believe! From whence does this fertilizer come, not human I would hope? We tend to maintain terrible diets and there may be micronutrients unproductive for healthy plants.

Both, I'm just that awesome.

Wowzas! That's rare. I hope your abilities/powers were found to be favorable. And that you are blessed with a brood the size of which is to be marveled at!

Honestly... I greatly appreciated the welcomeness to the photo. However, out of respect and fear, I think I'll admire you from a distance. May your hoard ever grow and always keep you young!

 

[Sheldon]

I read like 30+ pages.. Found no posts by any of the proclaimed atheists to venture to even attempt an answer. Questions are not answers to a question, they are a refusal of response or like you said of the theists 'reticent' in nature.

Atheism is not a claim or belief it requires no answers. Theism is a claim and a belief, so a theist asking an atheist what evidence they want is irrational. I've yet to meet a theist who could even accurately define the deity they believe exists.

If they have evidence then just present the very best most compelling evidence they think there is, if atheists are not swayed then that is anyone's right to disbelieve claims.

Is a flingallopsy mineral plant or animal? Is it metaphysical or material? Is it inanimate living or created?

It's everything.

I will, if you allow, give you a required level of evidence for such a claim.

What evidence will convince you?

Granted, your analogy has a nagging flaw and difference: Religion and the idea of a deity as well as the assumed traits of such deities have been known since time immemorial...

Take a moment and ask yourself if the antiquity of a claim lends any credence to it, and you might see why that is a pretty meaningless assertion.

Meanwhile a 'flingallopsy' was (as far as we know) just created on the ninth day of March in the year 2022 at 7:20pm. (yesterday, it was literally born yesterday)...

Human beings evolved roughly 200k years ago, where was your religion, for most of that?

Therefore, I think my task to accomplish the same request that was asked of you, will be exponentially more difficult, unless you would rather not play along with the thought experiment you proposed.

Not really, they seem equally absurd requests to me. Asking someone to explain what evidence they would expect from a belief you hold is definitely putting the cart before the horse. Your claim was also untrue, as I know for fact I already answered the OP more than once. I can't say prima facie exactly what evidence I would accept obviously, it would be absurd to think anyone could, but I believe claims for which sufficient objective evidence can be demonstrated. I have seen no rational argument why this standard should not be applied to god claims, as I apply it to all other claims, only excuses that themselves invoke unevidenced claims.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Not many atheists answered the questions below.

So if “that’s not evidence” what would be evidence of God’s existence?
If God existed, where would we get the evidence? How would we get it?

Instead, this thread went off track early on.

Those are questions that we should be asking believers.
They're the ones who should know such things, right?

 

[Trailblazer]

I read like 30+ pages.. Found no posts by any of the proclaimed atheists to venture to even attempt an answer. Questions are not answers to a question, they are a refusal of response or like you said of the theists 'reticent' in nature.

Thanks. I did not have time to read all of that but I did not recall any answers to my questions.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is what I would like to know. Where IS this evidence? (and not just any old evidence, but objective factual evidence, according to Tb.)

The fruits (what He did on His mission from God) is the evidence.
The fruits are objective factual evidence. They can be read about in the historical accounts.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It was the same in the days of Jesus. The fruits were the evidence that He was a Manifestation of God, superior to an ordinary man. Likewise, the fruits of Baha'u'llah as the evidence that He was a Manifestation of God, superior to an ordinary man.

“But in the day of the Manifestation the people with insight see that all the conditions of the Manifestation are miracles, for They are superior to all others, and this alone is an absolute miracle. Recollect that Christ, solitary and alone, without a helper or protector, without armies and legions, and under the greatest oppression, uplifted the standard of God before all the people of the world, and withstood them, and finally conquered all, although outwardly He was crucified. Now this is a veritable miracle which can never be denied. There is no need of any other proof of the truth of Christ…” Some Answered Questions, p. 101

 

[Trailblazer]

Those are questions that we should be asking believers.
They're the ones who should know such things, right?

That's right. They have been asked and believers have answered.

 

[Trailblazer]

When the person making the claim is the same guy providing the evidence for the claim, you should immediately be suspicious.

Who else would provide the evidence for the claim if not the claimant?
If a man claimed to get messages from God how could anyone else provide evidence for that claim?

You should be suspicious of such a claim but if the evidence either supports the claim or it does not support the claim.

I've already demonstrated how I can use that to provide evidence supporting the claim I can turn into a fire breathing dragon.

But can you actually support your claim by turning into a fire breathing dragon?

As I have said numerous times, the claim is not the evidence. If you claim that you can turn into a fire breathing dragon then you need evidence that supports that claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, let's eliminate ALL of his writings. Now, where's the evidence?

His own Self, who He was, His character (His qualities).
That can be determined by reading about Him in books such as the following: The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4

His Revelation, what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause).
That can be determined by reading about His mission in books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

Regarding His Revelation, please read this post:

Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

 

[Trailblazer]

The only obligation you have here is to provide actual evidence to support the claims you make. Don't be surprised when people call you out on the fact that your evidence is wishful thinking and logical fallacies.

And don't hide behind the "I'm not making any claims" excuse.

I am making no claims, Baha'u'llah made the claims. Nevertheless, I have explained what the evidence is that supports His claims. If you do not like that evidence that is not my problem. It is what it is.

 

[Tiberius]

This is what I would like to know. Where IS this evidence? (and not just any old evidence, but objective factual evidence, according to Tb.)

I've been more than happy to accept the writings of Mr B, and what he said and what he did as objective. If she says that Mr B wrote a thing, then I'll take it as fact that he did actually write it. If she says he said a thing, then sure, he said it. And if she says he did a particular thing, then I accept that he did it.

Of course, if the writings are not the evidence, then she has quite a problem, and I can't wait to see how she handles it.

 

[Tiberius]

Well, the flowers react to the positive energy, so I will choose to believe! From whence does this fertilizer come, not human I would hope? We tend to maintain terrible diets and there may be micronutrients unproductive for healthy plants.

No, it is not human, it is dragon poop, the best fertilizer there is! Rest assured, dragons feed only on the finest foods, so there are no micronutrients that will be unproductive for healthy plants.

Wowzas! That's rare. I hope your abilities/powers were found to be favorable. And that you are blessed with a brood the size of which is to be marveled at!

My brood is forever growing, and shall spread amazement throughout the known universe!

Honestly... I greatly appreciated the welcomeness to the photo. However, out of respect and fear, I think I'll admire you from a distance. May your hoard ever grow and always keep you young!

There is no need for fear, and I am happy to pose with you for a photo!