Atheists who accept the theory of Evolution.

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Dogs produce dogs, people.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Dogs produce dogs, people.

and...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Dogs produce dogs, people.

Very good! And the cow says "mooooo."

Next week, we'll start working on plus and take away. Eventually, we'll get to basic science including biology where we can start to learn about the basics of evolutionary theory. Keep at it!

 

[Nymphs]

Dogs produce dogs, people.

Do you know the history and genetics of the canine family? It's quite fascinating.

:yes:

 

[Riverwolf]

Dogs produce dogs, people.

And wolves. Dogs can produce viable offspring with wolves.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

and...

You say "and"...but in order to explain the origins of the "dog" kind, that "and" would be followed by a whole lot of bio-babble.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Do you know the history and genetics of the canine family? It's quite fascinating.

:yes:

I am genetically linked to my great-great grandparents and beyond, but it is a far stretch to say I "evolved" from them, now isn't it?

 

[Nymphs]

I am genetically linked to my great-great grandparents and beyond, but it is a far stretch to say I "evolved" from them, now isn't it?

No, it isn't. Not a stretch at all. With their genetics you've evolved to be the human you are today. You have several of their traits, and because of the genetics they gave you, you are different than them. Do you really not understand how evolution works?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Very good! And the cow says "mooooo."

Next week, we'll start working on plus and take away. Eventually, we'll get to basic science including biology where we can start to learn about the basics of evolutionary theory. Keep at it!

Basic science is observing the fact that there are many different varieties of dogs, but they are all part of the same kind, the "dog" kind. If you have to add voodoo in to the mix by claiming that these "beast wars"" (google it) transformations were taking place millions of years ago...things start to get not so "basic" at that point.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

No, it isn't. Not a stretch at all. With their genetics you've evolved to be the human you are today. You have several of their traits, and because of the genetics they gave you, you are different than them. Do you really not understand how evolution works?

But I am not changing to a non-human. I have all of their traits, and I am a replicate of what they were, a human. Second, if we all share a common ancestor as you probably believe, how the hell do you get from a snake to an elephant? There are no similar traits, and the difference is night and day. So again, voodoo science. You have to believe that animals were producing different kind of animals, something that has never been observed.

 

[Nymphs]

Basic science is observing the fact that there are many different varieties of dogs, but they are all part of the same kind, the "dog" kind. If you have to add voodoo in to the mix by claiming that these "beast wars"" (google it) transformations were taking place millions of years ago...things start to get not so "basic" at that point.

Beast wars? That's not evolution. Sorry to break it to you. Please take a refresher course:

Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Evolution isn't voodoo anymore than the theory of gravity is voodoo.

 

[Nymphs]

But I am not changing to a non-human. I have all of their traits, and I am a replicate of what they were, a human. Second, if we all share a common ancestor as you probably believe, how the hell do you get from a snake to an elephant? There are no similar traits, and the difference is night and day. So again, voodoo science. You have to believe that animals were producing different kind of animals, something that has never been observed.

Do you know how evolution even works? Snakes don't turn into elephants and elephants don't turn into snakes. That isn't voodoo, that just isn't what happens. For the love of science, please take a refresher course on evolution -- it would do you good so you actually look like you know what you are talking about.

 

[Riverwolf]

But I am not changing to a non-human.

'Course you're not. You're not a Pokemon.

I have all of their traits, and I am a replicate of what they were, a human.

You don't have all their traits, actually, because you're not a clone. You have many of their traits, combined from each other: traits that they didn't share amongst each other but exist in you as an individual. But you also have some of your own traits, that you, and you alone of the human species, have, and some of their traits did not survive.

Second, if we all share a common ancestor as you probably believe, how the hell do you get from a snake to an elephant?

You don't, and no evolutionary biologist would believe such a nonsensical statement.

There are no similar traits, and the difference is night and day. So again, voodoo science. You have to believe that animals were producing different kind of animals, something that has never been observed.

Actually, no we don't.

And "kind" is too abstract and undefined a term to be of any use in scientific inquiry.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Do you know how evolution even works?

Do you?

Snakes don't turn into elephants and elephants don't turn into snakes. That isn't voodoo, that just isn't what happens.

First off, that is not what I said or implied..so please, keep the straw men to yourself I said that if we all share a common ancestor, and a snakes and elephants are different types of animals, and the common ancestor was neither a snake nor an elephant...then obviously the common ancestor produced something that it clearly wasn't...a snake, or an elephant.

For the love of science, please take a refresher course on evolution -- it would do you good so you actually look like you know what you are talking about.

I just don't accept things without proper evidence. Call it what you want.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

'Course you're not. You're not a Pokemon.

Beast wars!!!

You don't have all their traits, actually, because you're not a clone. You have many of their traits, combined from each other: traits that they didn't share amongst each other but exist in you as an individual. But you also have some of your own traits, that you, and you alone of the human species, have, and some of their traits did not survive.

No matter how you slice the cake, I am not something different than what my parents were, which is a human being. If my parents produced a dog, then I would be something different than what my parents were.

You don't, and no evolutionary biologist would believe such a nonsensical statement.

Ok, so how did a snake and an elephant branch off from this great big "tree of life"?

Actually, no we don't.

Then my question above should be answered with no problem.

And "kind" is too abstract and undefined a term to be of any use in scientific inquiry.

I prefer simplicity. There are dog kinds, cat kinds, bear kinds, snake kinds, etc. They are types of animals. Each "kind" has many different varieties within it. No need for bio-babble. No need for technical nonsense.

 

[Willamena]

...if we all share a common ancestor, and a snakes and elephants are different types of animals, and the common ancestor was neither a snake nor an elephant...then obviously the common ancestor produced something that it clearly wasn't...a snake, or an elephant.

No matter how you slice the cake, I am not something different than what my parents were, which is a human being. If my parents produced a dog, then I would be something different than what my parents were.

It's both true that parents will only give birth to offspring of their species and that species will change over time. The changes are gradual.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

It's both true that parents will only give birth to offspring of their species and that species will change over time.

The changes are gradual.

When people tell me "it will change over time", that is like me telling you that Jesus will return soon. If you are an unbeliever, it will seem like nonsense to you, right?

You are basically saying "No one has seen it because it takes so long to occur, but it happens"

and...

"We will never see it happen because it takes so long to happen, but it happens."

Kind of like saying "I will put a 400,000,000 in your bank account, when you die".

 

[Riverwolf]

Beast wars!!!

I remember that show. It was a favorite when I was a kid.

It also has no relation to reality, just like the rest of that franchise.

No matter how you slice the cake, I am not something different than what my parents were, which is a human being. If my parents produced a dog, then I would be something different than what my parents were.

Then your misunderstanding comes from conceptualizing what it means to be "something different."

Every single generation is different from the previous one in subtle ways. Most of the time, these differences are just in appearance(my red hair vs. my mother's brown and my father's black), but sometimes there's actual difference that changes how the offspring lives. (I have Asperger's Syndrome; my parents don't.)

Ok, so how did a snake and an elephant branch off from this great big "tree of life"?

Well, the common ancestor between mammals and reptiles was LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ago, in aeons so deep and distant that we can't really conceptualize them.

There were reptiles before mammals, and the branch that would become mammals was still reptilian for a long time, even after developing fur. This branch of proto-mammal reptiles would have split long before from the branch that would eventually spawn snakes many hundreds of millions of years later; snakes are thought to have evolved sometime in the Cretaceous, though exactly how remains unclear. Once creatures that we can recognize as mammals fully developed, they lived right alongside dinosaurs as small rodent-like critters. There were many different species of those critters, and modern mammals are descended from them. Our own primate branch evolved not long after the K-T event, from treebound mammals that resembled (though weren't) squirrels. (Hint: mammals are not, and never were, dinosaurs or birds.)

Interestingly enough, there are still two existent mammals that lay eggs; they represent a branch of mammals that split early on from the one that would eventually develop the ability for live birth.

Then my question above should be answered with no problem.

As it was.

I prefer simplicity.

It's not simple. It's simply inaccurate.

Besides, conceptualizing biological classification is quite simple.

There are dog kinds, cat kinds, bear kinds, snake kinds, etc. They are types of animals. Each "kind" has many different varieties within it. No need for bio-babble. No need for technical nonsense.

Yes there is, because that "kind" nonsense is not representative of reality at all.

Reality is not cut-and-dry categories. It's more like a massive multidimensional venn-diagram.

 

[Riverwolf]

When people tell me "it will change over time", that is like me telling you that Jesus will return soon. If you are an unbeliever, it will seem like nonsense to you, right?

You are basically saying "No one has seen it because it takes so long to occur, but it happens"

and...

"We will never see it happen because it takes so long to happen, but it happens."

Kind of like saying "I will put a 400,000,000 in your bank account, when you die".

Actually, turns out it's not so gradual as to be unobservable.

2,000 years ago, people around the Mediterranean were fairly petite. Meanwhile, Roman writers were describing the Celtic and Germanic peoples as being quite massive. Nowadays, both Mediterranean people and the descendents of those early tribes are fairly diverse in body shape, but that reported massiveness isn't the norm anymore.

 

[Willamena]

When people tell me "it will change over time", that is like me telling you that Jesus will return soon. If you are an unbeliever, it will seem like nonsense to you, right?

You are basically saying "No one has seen it because it takes so long to occur, but it happens"

and...

"We will never see it happen because it takes so long to happen, but it happens."

On the contrary, I say, "People have seen this... in fossils, in understanding of genetics, and in the evidence such as mutation and selection."