Atheists win! They have the fossils! What do the fossils prove?

[1137]

Are you willing to admit that MAYBE a supernatural entity has left evidence for it's existence?

Yes, it's called consciosness.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It's simple:

Atheists love fossils.

Fossils = death.

Atheism = soul death.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

How on earth does that mean there was no supernatural creator?

What evidence indicates that there was a creator?

You really need to learn how the burden of proof works.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

What I spoke of one species turning into another, I was speaking in the specific context of fish mutation into amphibians, reptiles, whatever, and eventually mammals... or a phenomenon similar to that we simply don't see it in today's creatures.

Those are just vertebrates turning into vertebrates. That doesn't seem to fit your criteria either. If you think "fish" is the name of a species then "vertebrate" is also a name of a species.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

We all evolved from a world full of single-cell organisms.

Our ancestors include single celled eukaryotes. We are still eukaryotes. Does that mean we are still the same species because we are still eukaryotes?

that indeed requires transitions, mutations, and transformations of one species into another as radically as I am proposing.

The problem is that the only criteria you seem to use to determine if something is still the same species is if you can call them by the same name.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

"are you willing to admit that supernatural entities may indeed contact certain people, may indeed give visions, may indeed miraculously heal people?

I believe it's possible. What I lack is sufficient evidence. Record-keeping is not a strength for the miraculous types. I'm mostly fine with visions, but as an RN, the medical claims irk me quite a bit.

How do you know all the Catholic Saints, stigmatics, Prophets, visionaries, mystics, or healers were all delusional? How do you know all the Sadhu's, Gurus, Polytheistic Priests, Shamans, medicine men, and necromancers were all just following thoughts in their head

I think there are entire youtube channels devoted to debunking stuff like that. It's fun to watch people like James Randi confound their "gifts".

How do you know that much of the world embraces a delusion and often center their whole lives around it...are 93% of the people insane.

100% of people are insane. The "NT's" (neurotypicals) are simply in denial, that's how crazy they are.

Isn't it interesting that Chimps, monkeys, orangutans, baboons, and gorillas survived, but these other homo erectus, who should have been more clever, went extinct...hmmm....maybe they were dumber than a box of rocks?

Chimps, etc are more modern.

do we see evidence that a single cell organism can come into existence (how?)

Yeah, sorta. working on it

Do we see any living creatures in the 21st century that are transitioning and mutating into another species?

All the time. Once your grandkids and your neighbors' grandkids can't mate and reproduce and make fertile babies, congrats ... you're no longer the same species.

Of course the sun didn't dance in the sky....we all know that...it was a vision that a crowd of thousands of people said they saw, and wrote about it, and media and cameras were there.

Is there video of it? No? We just take the word of some kids who convinced entire towns to burn witches, no, wait, that was the Salem Witch Trials.

Were you there? Well, that is evidence.

You weren't there either. I see pictures of a throng of people staring at the sky. People do that even today to watch an eclipse.

"They do examine the patients. It does have to be proven that the people were sick beforehand! they will only choose a case when they cannot find a naturalistic explaination."

I notice your link comes from a site about miracles and not medical documentation.

So, a single cell organism eventually managed to mutate into this...(sometimes a picture can speak volumes. Evolution is artistic):

Dear God, another Deeje. I'm so sick of people using pictures of animals we ourselves label beautiful to prove God. Never see much of parasites or diseases or deformities. Also, who is to say those animals are beautiful? Maybe a tick is beautiful and it is the duck who is ugly.

The Eye of the Beholder - Wikipedia

If we evolved from single cell organisms and fish, why aren't creatures showing signs of such that mutation??

Did you know a good chunk of our DNA come from viruses?

Atheists never have an answer so they point to ancient fossils with a theory that can't be proven!

What do atheists have to do with fossils? I'm a theist and I know evolution happens. What we DON'T see is creatures magically poofing up out of nowhere or dirt becoming human beings.

that at one time the world was dominated by single cell organisms, they had the world all to themselves, then in time they mutated into an intelligent chimp that events the Internet,

Why do creationists always jump from amoebas to humans?

Single cells
Cellular colonies
Differentiated/specialized cells within colonies
Multicellular organisms

It's really not that hard.

while Chimps, who are 99% similar in DNA, that evolutionists insist are so close to us, haven't even invented the wheel or dug a water well

But they can use tools, lie, cheat, steal, etc. You can teach them how to cook with fire. Might I remind you that most humans never invent crap. A few geniuses here and there do it and everyone else just uses the results.

Or ask yourself why your God made the pinnacle of creation look like a hairless gorilla.

LOL.

Yeah...and we really see signs of fish mutating into another species?

Which species of fish are you talking about? You realize "fish", "cows", "apes" aren't species names, right?

Well, I think you have a point here. Chimps do not believe that any of their alpha males, when they whisper some noise, they can turn a banana into the literal body of a 2000 years old gorilla messiah. either. So, you have a point. They are not similar to us. Well, to you at least.

Death rituals in the animal kingdom

Before Christ came, there was no bread in the world

History of bread - Wikipedia

Really, guys, claims like these take just seconds to look up.

We have universities, people that walk on the moon, dentists, Scientists, automobiles, credit cards, cell phones, Internet

And how many people do you know have knowledge in those areas? My mom has trouble hanging up her cell phone.

Detective Del Spooner: Human beings have dreams. Even dogs have dreams, but not you, you are just a machine. An imitation of life. Can a robot write a symphony? Can a robot turn a... canvas into a beautiful masterpiece?

Sonny: Can *you*?

Science and evolution is artistic and has a sense of humor eh?

Is this God's handiwork?

My protagonist is actually ending up with this one. Personally I think it looks cool. Must be itchy as hell, though.

I mean, how can a creationist argue that God created humanity when in Genesis He can't even remember how to make a human out of dirt after the first go at it? Did He lose the recipe?

Well to be fair to chimps, they do not possess the throat muscles that we do.

Yes, this is why in the reboot of Planet of the Apes, Cesar and friends start off with signing until their anatomy becomes more human-like and THEN "NOOOOOOO".

when I give plenty of evidence of a supernatural force intervening in people's lives that you simply refuse to accept...

Pumpkin, pretty pictures are evidence of nothing. Pictures of people looking at the sky means NOTHING.

Speaking of talking to a pile of rocks, no one has produced any evidence in any of the creatures alive in our 21st century, that it is in the process of mutating into another species.... and you also state with certainty that I provided zero evidence. That is simply not true.

All of us are. Well, not me, as I refuse to procreate for the benefit of the future of society. But still.

I have seen plenty of documentaries where the eyewitnesses gave their account.

Isn't Blair Witch a "documentary"?

What I spoke of one species turning into another, I was speaking in the specific context of fish mutation into amphibians

There are fish that can ambulate on land and breathe air. You're welcome.

And I'm open to the possibility that I am wrong, and so is nearly all of the world.,as I have stated multiple times...so now I'm wondering, why is it that I am willing to admit that maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the average atheist saying "I might be wrong, a creator might exist"?

What does a creator have to do with evolution? A hammer hits a nail whether it simply falls on it, is used by a sentient being or by a robot.

And there are plenty of fossils in the fossil record that show those changes. Why do you think that they do not exist? Perhaps you are relying on too many creationist sources.

This might help, Pope.

70000 people showed up to witness the sign that our lady promised to give.

People turn out in large crowds to see a moose

Pope Francis would not say that, because he would be essentially saying the church magisterium for thousands of years has been wrong, the Saints and Mystics were wrong, and previous popes were all wrong.

And what if they were? Are you beholden to truth or tradition?

I studied the testimony of the Fatima Seers as well as many people who attended the event.

And I've studied the people who believed the military was going to come and take all their guns. I've studied people who argue over the colors of a dress. I've studied people who argue the world is flat. I've studied people who think commercials talk to them personally.

Ever watched stolen valor videos on youtube? You have all these guys claiming to be epic warriors, when they've just bought some camo at Wal-Mart or something. It turns out that if people think they'll get attention in their sad and lonely lives, they'll spout off anything.
(language)

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe it's possible. What I lack is sufficient evidence. Record-keeping is not a strength for the miraculous types. I'm mostly fine with visions, but as an RN, the medical claims irk me quite a bit.


I think there are entire youtube channels devoted to debunking stuff like that. It's fun to watch people like James Randi confound their "gifts".


100% of people are insane. The "NT's" (neurotypicals) are simply in denial, that's how crazy they are.


Chimps, etc are more modern.


Yeah, sorta. working on it


All the time. Once your grandkids and your neighbors' grandkids can't mate and reproduce and make fertile babies, congrats ... you're no longer the same species.


Is there video of it? No? We just take the word of some kids who convinced entire towns to burn witches, no, wait, that was the Salem Witch Trials.


You weren't there either. I see pictures of a throng of people staring at the sky. People do that even today to watch an eclipse.


I notice your link comes from a site about miracles and not medical documentation.


Dear God, another Deeje. I'm so sick of people using pictures of animals we ourselves label beautiful to prove God. Never see much of parasites or diseases or deformities. Also, who is to say those animals are beautiful? Maybe a tick is beautiful and it is the duck who is ugly.

The Eye of the Beholder - Wikipedia


Did you know a good chunk of our DNA come from viruses?


What do atheists have to do with fossils? I'm a theist and I know evolution happens. What we DON'T see is creatures magically poofing up out of nowhere or dirt becoming human beings.


Why do creationists always jump from amoebas to humans?

Single cells
Cellular colonies
Differentiated/specialized cells within colonies
Multicellular organisms

It's really not that hard.


But they can use tools, lie, cheat, steal, etc. You can teach them how to cook with fire. Might I remind you that most humans never invent crap. A few geniuses here and there do it and everyone else just uses the results.


LOL.


Which species of fish are you talking about? You realize "fish", "cows", "apes" aren't species names, right?


Death rituals in the animal kingdom


History of bread - Wikipedia

Really, guys, claims like these take just seconds to look up.


And how many people do you know have knowledge in those areas? My mom has trouble hanging up her cell phone.

Detective Del Spooner: Human beings have dreams. Even dogs have dreams, but not you, you are just a machine. An imitation of life. Can a robot write a symphony? Can a robot turn a... canvas into a beautiful masterpiece?

Sonny: Can *you*?

Is this God's handiwork?

My protagonist is actually ending up with this one. Personally I think it looks cool. Must be itchy as hell, though.

I mean, how can a creationist argue that God created humanity when in Genesis He can't even remember how to make a human out of dirt after the first go at it? Did He lose the recipe?


Yes, this is why in the reboot of Planet of the Apes, Cesar and friends start off with signing until their anatomy becomes more human-like and THEN "NOOOOOOO".


Pumpkin, pretty pictures are evidence of nothing. Pictures of people looking at the sky means NOTHING.


All of us are. Well, not me, as I refuse to procreate for the benefit of the future of society. But still.


Isn't Blair Witch a "documentary"?


There are fish that can ambulate on land and breathe air. You're welcome.


What does a creator have to do with evolution? A hammer hits a nail whether it simply falls on it, is used by a sentient being or by a robot.


This might help, Pope.

People turn out in large crowds to see a moose


And what if they were? Are you beholden to truth or tradition?


And I've studied the people who believed the military was going to come and take all their guns. I've studied people who argue over the colors of a dress. I've studied people who argue the world is flat. I've studied people who think commercials talk to them personally.

Ever watched stolen valor videos on youtube? You have all these guys claiming to be epic warriors, when they've just bought some camo at Wal-Mart or something. It turns out that if people think they'll get attention in their sad and lonely lives, they'll spout off anything.
(language)

I was thinking of getting him started on Aron Ra's series. That is probably the best online source today that shows the record of how we know that life evolved form single celled organisms to eventually us, if one follows only one line of evolution. And he is presently at Cladotheria. It looks like at least three more videos before we even get to the split between marsupials and placental mammals.

Here is his latest, #28 in the series. It may get upwards of 40 videos by the time he gets finally to man:

 

[Phantasman]

I


History of bread - Wikipedia

Really, guys, claims like these take just seconds to look up.

Typical of seeing flesh (physical) over spirit. Bread. Cross. Water. Fire.

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

When Wiki explains the mystery of the gospel. Who'd have known?

Mark:
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Butter up the bread.

 

[ChristineM]

First off, I'm not trying to get anyone to believe in the Bible...so don't bring it up!...Much of the Bible I find ridiculous and goes against my conscience. Most people who believe in supernatural entities, don't believe the Bible is without error. Even over a billion Catholic Christians do not use the Bible as the sole rule of their faith, and many don't follow it for that matter.

Regarding the question in the poll...you can only use so many words in the question...what I'm really asking, is "are you willing to admit that supernatural entities may indeed contact certain people, may indeed give visions, may indeed miraculously heal people?

How do you know all the Catholic Saints, stigmatics, Prophets, visionaries, mystics, or healers were all delusional? How do you know all the Sadhu's, Gurus, Polytheistic Priests, Shamans, medicine men, and necromancers were all just following thoughts in their head...How do you know they weren't connecting to a spririt-world, interacting with spiritual entities (good or bad), and going on vision quests with spirit-guides? How do you know they weren't bringing messages from the spirit-world to their tribe and sometimes channeling healing energy from the spirit-world to the material world, causing miraculous healings?

Many eyewitnesses have testified that they witnessed these unexplainable mystic phenomenon, or been healed by these people, or had someone read their heart, tell them things about themselves they shouldn't know, or give a prophecy that came true.

Statistics show that roughly 93% of people in our enlightened century believe in Spiritual entities...How do you know that much of the world embraces a delusion and often center their whole lives around it...are 93% of the people insane...How do you know that their reason for believing isn't based on evidence that the Creator left them?

Okay, so there are fossils indicating that at one time in history there were homo erectus (and homo whatever)... that had different skulls

How on earth does that mean there was no supernatural creator? So, at one time the creator worked with the mechanisms of Science to create homo-erectus with different skulls than ours. For whatever reason, they went extinct...

Isn't it interesting that Chimps, monkeys, orangutans, baboons, and gorillas survived, but these other homo erectus, who should have been more clever, went extinct...hmmm....maybe they were dumber than a box of rocks?

How does that prove there is no supernatural entity? So we have some fossils...do we see evidence that a single cell organism can come into existence (how?) and then mutate into fish, Dinosaurs, reptiles, birds, rodents, insects, arachnids, mammals, and eventually you??

I'm firmly convinced that such transformation and mutations do not happen with scientific mechanisms as the sole basis for such glorious and beautiful transformation.

Do we see any living creatures in the 21st century that are transitioning and mutating into another species?

Atheists keep telling me....why believe something when there is no evidence....*sign*...it's exhausting repeating myself.

Many people, including Doctors and scientists have made statements that would indicate there is evidence that the creator is indeed giving people signs....There are Scientists who believe in Supernatural entities..(but people who don't want to believe will find every source they can that *"debunks it"*.) How do you know they are mistaken and delusional?

I know I've said this before...but atheists keep asking for evidence, so I'll repeat myself:

Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia
Of course the sun didn't dance in the sky....we all know that...it was a vision that a crowd of thousands of people said they saw, and wrote about it, and media and cameras were there. Many communists, skeptics, atheists, and freemasons showed up to mock the event and were stunned with what they saw...it was a sign for them....nothing happened to the sun...And three illiterate shepherd children made prophecies about serious future calamities like the rise of communism in Russia, the spread of communism throughout the world, and the coming of world war 2, and that the sky would be illuminated by an unknown light, prior to world war 2, it all happened...
(In spite of much study and investigation, scientists were unable to explain the great light that “struck fear into the hearts of millions” (F. Johnston). An unknown light in 1938 demands our attention – even today - Our Lady's Blue Army - World Apostolate of Fatima U.S.A.) that did take place, and they prophesied about the coming of their early death, all of which took place.

A sign was promised to all who showed up at a certain place, on a certain day, and thousands of eye-witnesses claim they saw the sun dance for approx. ten minutes, and then plunge down on the crowd. Many communists and atheists witnessed this and converted...it lead to religious fervor that was largely responsible for the fall of communism in Portugal.. How do you know there was no supernatural entity that gave these people a sign?...Were you there? Well, that is evidence. In fact, it changed the world in many ways, established a feast day that is celebrated by over a billion people, lead to movies, documentaries, many books as well...a massive shrine was erected there, the seers were canonized, and millions of pilgrims go there every years. Something very well may have happened there.

Maybe the creator did leave evidence for those people...you simply don't know.

Whenever there is supernatural phenomenon, there will be skeptics who come up with a clever rebuttal for it. People believe what they want to. There are sources that claim to "rebuttal" almost anything controversial or supernatural.
More miracles:
Infallible Catholic: Miraculous Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Miracle Hunter: Lourdes - List of Approved Miracles

The Medical committee at Lourdes is totally independent of the Church. They use skeptics on the committees, the rules are geared to control for remission. They screen our remission. They are required to use only the best medical evidence, to consult the doctors of the patients and they cannot make decisions without obtaining the medical records of those doctors. "They do examine the patients. It does have to be proven that the people were sick beforehand! they will only choose a case when they cannot find a naturalistic explaination."
cientific Evidence for Miracles page 1: examination of the Lourdes rules for miracel acceptence.

So, a single cell organism eventually managed to mutate into this...(sometimes a picture can speak volumes. Evolution is artistic):

All you need to do is provide valid evidence for said creator and all doubt will poof into thin air.

Note that i in several thousand years several billion people have, so far, failed to provide evidence of a creator.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Typical of seeing flesh (physical) over spirit. Bread. Cross. Water. Fire.

All physical things.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing

You'll die without food and water, though. "Soulless" people exist just fine.

Butter up the bread.

I prefer margarine.

 

[SomeRandom]

I
Yes, this is why in the reboot of Planet of the Apes, Cesar and friends start off with signing until their anatomy becomes more human-like and THEN "NOOOOOOO".

If memory serves only Ceasar is able to speak at all. Everyone else still signs after the NOOO scene.
I wonder what exactly they did to him in those experiments.

 

[Milton Platt]

That would be an amazing episode.

Only if they brought a bunch of rotting corpses on stage and he brought them back to life....

 

[Shad]

There is no winning as not everyone has agreed to the same rules for the game nor on a single/set of representatives to act as judges in the matter. We are all playing our individual idea of a street sport only to yell "Car" to stop play.

Cultural reference sorry.

 

[jhwatts]

I'm of school that the human fossil record demonstrates transformations and not transitions.

Just curious though, how does evolution deal with a full system reboot? For example.

Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event - Wikipedia

There are others too.

I know its just wikipedia but it claims only ectotherm species survived. Does that mean everything now comes from them only?

Does evolution just start over or what?

Just looking for some an explanation from someone knowledgeable in that area.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I'm of school that the human fossil record demonstrates transformations and not transitions.

That seems to be a distinction without a difference.

Just curious though, how does evolution deal with a full system reboot? For example.

Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event - Wikipedia

There were species that survived the K/P extinction event, so it wasn't a full system reboot. Evolution handles extinction events like it handles everything else. Random mutations create variation which is then passed through the filter of natural selection.

I know its just wikipedia but it claims only ectotherm species survived. Does that mean everything now comes from them only?

Birds and mammals are endotherms and they survived.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If memory serves only Ceasar is able to speak at all. Everyone else still signs after the NOOO scene.

You have to go to the sequels. The anatomical changes take months or something. Quite a few can talk by trilogy's end.

 

[SomeRandom]

You have to go to the sequels. The anatomical changes take months or something. Quite a few can talk by trilogy's end.

Ahh of course. Now I remember.