Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?

[Mock Turtle]

God did not create history, humans created history. The world is like a chess board that God gave us and we are like the pieces that move around on the chess board by virtue of our free will. God does not enter the game. All God does is send Messengers in every age.

From my viewpoint, this is all supposition, and if there is a God we can't know to what extent He played a role in our creation or does in our lives. So many religious beliefs assume such after all. Even to the extent of sending messengers - which, as I'm sure you know, I dispute, since any true messenger might be rather difficult to tease out of the many charlatans. How would any God overcome that problem? Knowing as we do of course that man lies to man on a constant basis.

Still not sure about free will, which is another consideration - our lack of it perhaps.

 

[Trailblazer]

Which religion? Some can.

Which religions can be proven true?

That's the core of the conundrum right there: One must want to believe first, then convince themselves that it is true.

That is true, there must be a desire to believe in God first, then one must do the necessary research, then they become convinced or not.

I have seen no convincing evidence for God. Many have tried for millennia to provide the evidence, and the evidence always fails under scrutiny.

What kind of evidence would be convincing to you? Keep in mind that God provides the evidence and you have no control over God.

But when one wants to believe something, they tend to find evidence to substantiate that which they already want to believe.

That might be true for some people, but not for all people, and the converse also applies -- when one wants to disbelieve something, they tend to find fault with the evidence to substantiate that which they already disbelieve. In other words, they do not give the evidence a fair shake.

That is why theists find teleological, ontological, and other failed arguments for god convincing ... not because they are convincing; but because they already want to be convinced.

The last thing in the world I ever wanted was to believe in God. I was not raised with a God belief or a religion. I never thought about God. I was not searching for God at all when I stumbled upon my religion during my first year of college. Since then, I lost interest in God and then I got angry at God but I could never refute my religion so I still believe in God. I have to go with what the evidence indicates because it would be foolhardy to do otherwise. God is not someone you want to fool around with since He is All-Powerful.

 

[Trailblazer]

From my viewpoint, this is all supposition, and if there is a God we can't know to what extent He played a role in our creation or does in our lives.

I agree, we cannot know.

So many religious beliefs assume such after all. Even to the extent of sending messengers - which, as I'm sure you know, I dispute, since any true messenger might be rather difficult to tease out of the many charlatans.

I can understand the issue you have with that, but all i can say is that there is a way to know which ones are true or false by following the breadcrumbs of history and seeing where they lead.

How would any God overcome that problem? Knowing as we do of course that man lies to man on a constant basis.

It is not God who has to overcome the problem, it is us. We need to be able to determine which claims are noteworthy and which Messengers are telling the truth. It is by their fruits you shall know them, not because they make a claim. So we look at their character, what they did on their mission, and what they wrote. If they had no mission that produced fruits and no scriptures that are valuable to humanity, then that is a dead giveaway they are not a true Messenger of God.

Still not sure about free will, which is another consideration - our lack of it perhaps.

I think we have free will although it is constrained by many factors, so we are not free to choose anything at all. But we can choose more than one option. Free will is a difficult subject, it has so many nuances.

 

[ChristineM]

What makes you think the Bible makes it clear that God made sin? Even a cursory reading of the Bible reveals that God made everything good, but that it was rebellion against God which brought sin into the world. Sin is lawlessness and a contradiction to the very Nature and Being of God.

Did God create sin? | GotQuestions.org

2 Corinthians 5:21, Isaiah 45:7.

And of course, Genesis, the bible insists god made the earth and all in it. And an omniscient being would (or should, unless he was evil incarnate) not create a race to worship him to be faulty

 

[Shad]

No, there will probably never be any proof that God exists because God does not want to provide proof.

Well that settles it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

It is not God who has to overcome the problem, it is us. We need to be able to determine which claims are noteworthy and which Messengers are telling the truth. It is by their fruits you shall know them, not because they make a claim. So we look at their character, what they did on their mission, and what they wrote. If they had no mission that produced fruits and no scriptures that are valuable to humanity, then that is a dead giveaway they are not a true Messenger of God.

Methinks too much is expected of us to do so - given the amount of harm as well as good that has come from religion.

 

[Polymath257]

When I think of God, I think of the God that has revealed all the great religions throughout history, the one true God. God does not belong to any one religion. God does not love anyone anymore than anyone else, God loves everyone.

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."
('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

Why is it that you do not lend any credence to any of the versions of deities that are revealed by religions?
To me it makes most sense that religion and God are associated with each other and that any other God would be man-made.

Well, I find it more reasonable that ALL religions are man-made. It makes the most sense to me that people make up stories to soothe their fears, to organize their lives, and to mark important events. ALL people do this to some extent.

I see no reason to introduce more entities than necessary: humans seem to do quite well making this stuff up out of thin air.

 

[Pudding]

On another thread….

Trailblazer said: Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

@ ecco said:
Name one. Show where he/she said "they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence." That isn't what atheists say. That's what theists would like to believe atheists say.

Trailblazer said: Holy moly! ~~~ This is practically all atheists say, at least to me. Sorry, I cannot quote atheists from other forums because that is not right. They posted to me on other forums in confidence. Sure, they are public forums, but it is bad practice to take posts from one forum to another forum. But it is not only on the “other forums” where atheists have said this. They have also said it on RF. I am not saying that ALL atheists would like to believe in God if they had the evidence, since some atheists probably have no interest in God. But if they don’t have any interest in God, why is this forum comprised of as many atheists as believers? Hmmmmm.....

This would be a great topic for a new thread:

“Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?”

Please answer 1, 2 or 3.

1) Yes, I would like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
2) I am not sure. I might like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
3) No, I would not like to believe in God even if there was evidence that was good enough.

* By good enough I mean evidence that was sufficient for you to believe that God exists, evidence that proved to you that God exists.

Would i like to believe in a specific religion's version of God (undefined in the op) if there was good evidence for him?

If there're convincing evidence for that God, it'll convince me to believe he exists.

Would i like to believe he exists?
It depends. If he is a good guy, i would like to believe he exists, because if he exists - he can do good to the world. If he is evil, i wouldn't like to believe he exists, because if he exists - he'll do evil things and harm the world.

Even if i wouldn't like to believe something is fact, i'll still believe something is fact when there're convincing evidence proving that something is fact.

For example:
Would i like to believe Hitler exists?
No, i wouldn't, because if he exists he will bring agony to many people. But too bad, there're convincing evidence prove that he exists, which convince me that he exists despite the fact that i hope he doesn't exist.

So, is this undefined God a good guy or an evil?
If he is a good guy, then i hope he exists.
If he is evil and omnipotent, and will harm the world, then i hope he doesn't exist.

So far, the op haven't provide any convincing evidence that the (undefined) God (mention in the op) exists, thus i'm unconvinced that that God exists. I'm not interested to read any religion's book or investigate whether that God exists or not. If that God exists, and if he wants me to know that he exists, he'll have to show himself up in front of me to convince me he exists; if he's too shy (or any other unsubstantiated excuse) to meet me, then whatever, he can continue to remain invisible, while i'll remain unconvinced of his existence. He wants me to obey whatever he orders me to do? In his dreams. That God makes the unsubstantiated threat that i'll regret someday in the future if i don't obey him now? Am i scare by that unsubstantiated threat? Never. Meh.

 

[viole]

On another thread….

Trailblazer said: Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

@ ecco said:
Name one. Show where he/she said "they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence." That isn't what atheists say. That's what theists would like to believe atheists say.

Trailblazer said: Holy moly! ~~~ This is practically all atheists say, at least to me. Sorry, I cannot quote atheists from other forums because that is not right. They posted to me on other forums in confidence. Sure, they are public forums, but it is bad practice to take posts from one forum to another forum. But it is not only on the “other forums” where atheists have said this. They have also said it on RF. I am not saying that ALL atheists would like to believe in God if they had the evidence, since some atheists probably have no interest in God. But if they don’t have any interest in God, why is this forum comprised of as many atheists as believers? Hmmmmm.....

This would be a great topic for a new thread:

“Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?”

Please answer 1, 2 or 3.

1) Yes, I would like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
2) I am not sure. I might like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
3) No, I would not like to believe in God even if there was evidence that was good enough.

* By good enough I mean evidence that was sufficient for you to believe that God exists, evidence that proved to you that God exists.

If there was good evidence, then I would not need to believe to start with.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Does it make sense that there is more than one God? Why would we need more than one God?

Why not? Do you think the numbers of Gods depend on what you need?

Ciao

- viole

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I gave up on the idea that atheists might become believers a long time ago, although with God, all things are possible, IF an atheist has the desire to believe in God.

How atheists manage to maintain non-belief in the face of evidence and make atheism the core of their belief systems and their lives is fascinating.

What evidence?

That is a very rational and wise answer.
So, what if God exists and you don't know about it?

You could ask that question to yourself.

I mean, unless we're talking about a hypothetical scenario where the world and its evidence are different than what they are now, then we're talking about a scenario where none of the mainstream religions are justified but some other god exists.

 

[InChrist]

2 Corinthians 5:21, Isaiah 45:7.

And of course, Genesis, the bible insists god made the earth and all in it. And an omniscient being would (or should, unless he was evil incarnate) not create a race to worship him to be faulty

I have never thought that God endowing humans freedom equals faulty. Worship is love, the highest form of love and adoration. I don't think this kind of love can be anything less than freely given and expressed.

2 Corinthians 5:21 is informs us that Jesus Christ became our sin bearer taking upon Himself all the sins of humanity, meaning the Father applied the sins of the world to His Son and the Son chose to be our Savior. This verse does not say God created those sins of humanity.

Isaiah 45:7, although a favorite verse misused by atheists, does not say God creates sin or moral evil.

 

[QuestioningMind]

So, what I hear you saying is that you would believe in God if you had verifiable evidence but if God was not a God you would like then you would not want to find verifiable evidence for God?

In other words, if God was a God you would not like you’d rather not know if God exists.

But what if that Bible God actually exists and that is reality? Would you prefer to live with your head in the sand and not know reality? What if there were consequences for not believing? Do you think you would be off the hook just because you do not believe that God exists?

Finally, do you think that one reason you do not go looking for evidence for God is because you are afraid it might lead to the Bible God?

In other words, if God was a God you would not like you’d rather not know if God exists.

But that is NOT what I said. IF there is a god be it one I approve of or one I disapprove of, I WOULD want it to reveal itself with verifiable evidence. That's not the same as stating that I HOPE to find evidence that a god I disapprove of exists. It would be my PREFERENCE that they do NOT exist, but if they DO, I'd want to know about it.

But what if that Bible God actually exists and that is reality? Then I WOULD want to know about it. Would you prefer to live with your head in the sand and not know reality? No, I wouldn't be happy that a god I disapprove of exists, but I would certainly want to know about it. What if there were consequences for not believing? Do you think you would be off the hook just because you do not believe that God exists? Absolutely not... that is IF it's the God of the Christian bible. Which is one of the reasons that I find the god of the bible to be so despicable. I find it absurd to punish someone for a simply lacking belief in a fantastical claim.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Well, I am glad to hear that you understand that. However, there has never been any verifiable evidence for God and given God’s track record, I don’t think there will ever be any, so you won’t have to worry about whether God is what you might hope for.

Well, I am glad to hear that you understand that.

What is it that you're glad that I understand? Because what I understand is that somehow you have this switch in your head that you can choose to turn your belief in something on or off at will, regardless of what the actual verifiable evidence might show. That's called ignoring reality in favor of your delusions.

MY brain doesn't work like that. I require actual verifiable evidence before my brain will allow me to accept something as true. ESPECIALLY a fantastical claim like a god being.

 

[Trailblazer]

Methinks too much is expected of us to do so - given the amount of harm as well as good that has come from religion.

Obviously, one would need to remove their confirmation bias before they would consider embarking on a search for a religion. Extreme bias precludes open-mindedness and being fair in your judgment.

 

[ChristineM]

I have never thought that God endowing humans freedom equals faulty. Worship is love, the highest form of love and adoration. I don't think this kind of love can be anything less than freely given and expressed.

2 Corinthians 5:21 is informs us that Jesus Christ became our sin bearer taking upon Himself all the sins of humanity, meaning the Father applied the sins of the world to His Son and the Son chose to be our Savior. This verse does not say God created those sins of humanity.

Isaiah 45:7, although a favorite verse misused by atheists, does not say God creates sin or moral evil.

I provided verses. Your interpretation is not my affair


And you asked about sin, not love

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I find it more reasonable that ALL religions are man-made. It makes the most sense to me that people make up stories to soothe their fears, to organize their lives, and to mark important events. ALL people do this to some extent.

I see no reason to introduce more entities than necessary: humans seem to do quite well making this stuff up out of thin air.

That certainly is a perspective that has some validity, because all the tampering with the scriptures that was done by man over time made them religions of man rather than religions of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

If there was good evidence, then I would not need to believe to start with.

Ciao

- viole

You mean if there was proof. Evidence is not proof.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

 

[Trailblazer]

Why not? Do you think the numbers of Gods depend on what you need?

Ciao

- viole

We only need one God, since God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, and All-Wise.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

On another thread….

Trailblazer said: Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

@ ecco said:
Name one. Show where he/she said "they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence." That isn't what atheists say. That's what theists would like to believe atheists say.

Trailblazer said: Holy moly! ~~~ This is practically all atheists say, at least to me. Sorry, I cannot quote atheists from other forums because that is not right. They posted to me on other forums in confidence. Sure, they are public forums, but it is bad practice to take posts from one forum to another forum. But it is not only on the “other forums” where atheists have said this. They have also said it on RF. I am not saying that ALL atheists would like to believe in God if they had the evidence, since some atheists probably have no interest in God. But if they don’t have any interest in God, why is this forum comprised of as many atheists as believers? Hmmmmm.....

This would be a great topic for a new thread:

“Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?”

Please answer 1, 2 or 3.

1) Yes, I would like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
2) I am not sure. I might like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
3) No, I would not like to believe in God even if there was evidence that was good enough.

* By good enough I mean evidence that was sufficient for you to believe that God exists, evidence that proved to you that God exists.

I frankly don't like the question, as it seems to be asking 2 things at once, while demanding only a single answer to cover both questions:

1. Would I believe in God if there were sufficient evidence? Of course.
2. Would I like to? Can't answer that until I know what kind of God the evidence suggests exists. But if it were the one from the Old Testament, certainly not. I might be terrified of it, but being terrified is not something I particularly enjoy.