Athiesm and disproving God

[Revoltingest]

But again, you are presupposing that order will come about.

I presuppose nothing....I can observe that order has already come about in our material world, & that coin flipping behaves in a quantifiable predictable way.

You are presupposing that there are different sides to the coin, or different numbers to the dice. What gives it that order? luck?

I don't speak to "why", but I observe that such things behave as they do. The example was merely to illustrate a common pitfall of calculating probability, ie, that people fail to address all the possibilities.

 

[Robert.Evans]

For reference, I offer.....
Chaos theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In that article, you might enjoy this bit about spontaneous order in chaotic systems....
Chaos theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am no expert, but I have heard it from far cleverer people than me. The point is, why? Why does something which is supposed to chaotic come order? There has to be rules and laws to make anything do that

 

[Robert.Evans]

I presuppose nothing....I can observe that order has already come about in our material world, & that coin flipping behaves in a quantifiable predictable way.


I don't speak to "why", but I observe that such things behave as they do. The example was merely to illustrate a common pitfall of calculating probability, ie, that people fail to address all the possibilities.

So you accept an awful lot then, such as ''possibilities'' for example. Why are there ''possibilities''?

 

[Revoltingest]

I am no expert, but I have heard it from far cleverer people than me. The point is, why? Why does something which is supposed to chaotic come order? There has to be rules and laws to make anything do that

We agree completely!
(Scary, eh?)
To address the "why" would require analysis beyond the scope of this thread. I'd have to go back to some of me old textbooks to relearn stuff I've forgotten...& I'm just too lazy.

 

[Revoltingest]

So you accept an awful lot then, such as ''possibilities'' for example. Why are there ''possibilities''?

I'm accepting that which I observe, but the possibilities are just alternatives under consideration. I can't accept things I can't verify.

 

[LuisDantas]

So what then is choas?

As a matter of fact, chaos is largely an aesthetical perception. Which is to say, not a little of it actually exists in the perception of the observer. It does not much "exist" by itself.

How is that it has a way or creating patterns? Where does this order come from, if indeed it is what is called... chaos?

I don't know. I don't even know that it makes sense to expect order to come from anything.

 

[McBell]

The readin of the Bible is in the eyes of the beholder. What is literal to one is not to another. Eitehr way, it is scripture, and not read in a normal way.. that is why you don't understand it.

So which of you, Robert.Evans or Aman725, have the correct understanding of scripture?

Again, it is scripture. Reading with your eyes would be like me readin German and expecting to understanding any of it. i might get odd words but that would be as far as it would go. It would therefore seem simple and better for me to listen to the person who reads German, don't you think.

Except that those who understand german would give you the same translation from what is written in german....
Which of you, Robert.Evans or Aman725, have the correct understanding of scripture?

Faith IS evidence as it shows you a inner change of the person. Belief is God given, so the change is seen then in faith. It is the conviction of the person. You mistake this with normal worldly arguments I think, which is normal for non-believers to do.

Faith is believing what your mind would normally reject. Otherwise, there would be no need for faith.

Sure, but they also accept witness statements whether read or spoken... that is the majority of the case, interpreting evidence facts, and giving opinions. If evidence were proof, then we would need no judge would we. But evidence has to be understood.

Yet they do not accept witness statements without any other collaborating evidence.

 

[LuisDantas]

What I am saying is taht 'to you' they are your gods

Which is to say that you are wrong on that particular matter, or perhaps just having some fun with the concept of god.

 

[Robert.Evans]

As a matter of fact, chaos is largely an aesthetical perception. Which is to say, not a little of it actually exists in the perception of the observer. It does not much "exist" by itself.




I don't know. I don't even know that it makes sense to expect order to come from anything.

Your last line makes the most sense of anything you've so far posted to me... no offence

 

[McBell]

So you accept an awful lot then, such as ''possibilities'' for example. Why are there ''possibilities''?

How is your being satisfied with "GodDidIt" any different?
I mean outside your arbitrarily sticking god into the gap?

 

[Robert.Evans]

So which of you, Robert.Evans or Aman725, have the correct understanding of scripture?

Both. Each to his own reality... which is I think what I said

Except that those who understand german would give you the same translation from what is written in german....
Which of you, Robert.Evans or Aman725, have the correct understanding of scripture?

See the above. My analogy stands.

Faith is believing what your mind would normally reject. Otherwise, there would be no need for faith.

Faith means the ''conviction'' of the person. It comes from the inner witness of God and is the proof. Faith is not believing in something you mind would normally reject... I don't know why you would even put that.

Yet they do not accept witness statements without any other collaborating evidence.

So what

 

[Robert.Evans]

Which is to say that you are wrong on that particular matter, or perhaps just having some fun with the concept of god.

A ''god'' can be anything you put suficient emphasis on

 

[Robert.Evans]

How is your being satisfied with "GodDidIt" any different?
I mean outside your arbitrarily sticking god into the gap?

You seem to be able to stick 'naturaldidit' into your gap, and your god has no intelligenc at all. I think I will stick with mine.

 

[Revoltingest]

You seem to be able to stick 'naturaldidit' into your gap, and your god has no intelligenc at all. I think I will stick with mine.

I prefer this statement regarding the cause of what we see happen...

Spoiler: Rude philosophical language

Observing reality is a fine thing, even though we suffer illusions about it.
Where we really go wrong is giving meaning to it all.

 

[allfoak]

If there is no God then know thyself, so that you may be known.
If there is a God then know thyself, so that you may be known.

 

[McBell]

You seem to be able to stick 'naturaldidit' into your gap, and your god has no intelligenc at all. I think I will stick with mine.

When did I do that?
Seems you are making assumptions in order to protect your box.

I am perfectly fine with admitting "I Do No Know".

 

[allfoak]

Love the bug Mestemia.
It has a calming effect.

 

[LuisDantas]

Your last line makes the most sense of anything you've so far posted to me... no offence

None taken. You have yet to put yourself in such a position as to earn the right of offending me.

 

[LuisDantas]

A ''god'' can be anything you put suficient emphasis on

That is selling the concept - not one I value a lot in the first place - real cheap.

 

[Robert.Evans]

When did I do that?
Seems you are making assumptions in order to protect your box.

I am perfectly fine with admitting "I Do No Know".

Funny, with all your arguing, it seemed like you knew.