• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Australian Satanism and the Temple of THEM

kerriscott

Member
These are quite petty accusations, really
Actually, they're not 'petty' and they're not accusations but useful 'personality indicators' (detected characteristics) and a record of things he said or claimed. That you believe they are accusations is interesting.

But if that's how you see those indications - in your desire to defend him - then that's how you see them. It seems that you have no personal experience of either the 'law' or the 'order' part of law enforcement (from whatever side of the street or the bench) or you have experience in spieling and in the interest of your client make excuses for him. For those with such experience of law enforcement know those detected characteristics for the indicators of personal character that they are.

he wrote he was a skinhead for two years.
Yes of course he did because he said so. If I wrote that I worked for the CIA for seven years would you believe me?

Where's the evidence - reliable third party sources - for his boast that he was a skinhead? There isn't any evidence. Until he provides some, it remains a vainful boast - which boasting is, in my experience and in my universe, itself indicative.

Of course, when asked, he couldn't provide any evidence of those tens of thousands of people or detail his "hundreds of thousands of insights
So it was just another vainful boast; that is, indicative. Another indicator.

How should he document this fight?
Without supporting evidence, it's just another vainful boast. Those with a certain character wouldn't publicly boast about such an undocumented deed; those with a different type of character would and do so boast. Thus, this boast is yet another useful personality indicator.

That you keep making excuses for him is interesting.

So now the ONA is about studying and memorizing things.
Ignoratio elenchi (again). He claimed to be O9A for x number of years, and he claimed to run and O9A nexion, and he wrote thousands of pages about the O9A allegedly from his own personal experience, and he pontificated authoritatively to academics and others about the O9A, and yet he couldn't answer simple questions about O9A esotericism.

When asked about this, he (to his credit) finally admitted his O9A knowledge was limited, and that (in his words) although he had thought of himself as a captain he was in reality just a deckhand. Ergo, his claims were false and his pontifications were those of, at worst, a charlatan and, at best, a boaster. Again, such false claims and such boasting are useful 'personality indicators'.

Add up all these useful personality indicators and what type of personality is thereby profiled?

BTW, you still haven't answered the simple question I asked you. So I shall repeat it the question again:

Given that Kris himself admitted that he "didn't give a **** about the O9A code", and given that following that code is what distinguishes someone who is O9A from someone who is not O9A, was he or was he not falsely claiming to be O9A? Yes, or no?​

Why haven't you answered this question? Is it because that his statement basically amounts to a confession that he was indeed falsely claiming to be O9A, and if you admit it into evidence, then the whole case for the defense, which you've been presenting for a while, falls apart?
 

kerriscott

Member
that you drag the **** in the forums and present it to outsiders is suspicious.
Perhaps, and in respect of a previous post of mine, if you 'combine and connect' and make an intuitive leap of the kind expected of those who have been practicing occultists for x number of years, then you would appreciate such a presentation and why it's not suspicious.

The post I refer to is here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3864143-post309.html
 

jeff77

Member
...and to request that you read certain "archives" from 2006 onward - isn't this the very same material that Krispy has allegedly foresworn and disowned?
Good point - in his defense he's presenting material he's disowned. Yet one more contradiction!

It's funny that a lot of the material he's foresworn and disowned is still available via his website and he's still selling it via lulu dot com.

continues to make a spectacle of himself with his unbridled neurosis.
Seems so, doesn't it.
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
kerriscott said:
in your desire to defend him

I'm not defending him, just expressing some doubts. I'm sure KHK doesn't need anyone to defend him. Dishonorable behavior is a serious matter whereas you're talking about some online petty and silly ****. Another doubt is that you waited eight years with exposing him as a pretender. Yet another suspicious thing is that you present the drama to the outsiders in the public forum, at the same time saying that it's up to each ONA "member" to decide for themselves whether they consider someone a pretender or not.

Another thing is that the opposing views are necessary to keep the discussion going. If everyone nods their heads, there is no discussion. Moreover, jumping on the bandwagon is easy.
 

jeff77

Member
. Dishonorable behavior is a serious matter whereas you're talking about some online petty and silly ****
It's not about "dishonorable behavior" but about whether or not Mr McD upheld the O9A code and therefore about who is and who isn't O9A. That isn't "online petty and silly" at all is it?

KS has pointed out to you countless times in the past 6 months that it's about claims made by Mr McD - about false misrepresentation - yet you still persist in pushing your own demonstrably false claim that it's about "dishonorable behavior". Why do you keep making that claim? Is it because you really don't get what it's been all about? Or is it because you're too stubborn to admit that you're wrong and that Mr McD has admitted he was at fault? Given his admissions it's case closed isn't it? Or are you trying to keep the case open because you want to continue bashing the O9A?

Why else would you keep avoiding answering the question KS asked you? The question was -
Given that Kris himself admitted that he "didn't give a **** about the O9A code", and given that following that code is what distinguishes someone who is O9A from someone who is not O9A, was he or was he not falsely claiming to be O9A? Yes, or no?
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
Jeff77 said:
It's not about "dishonorable behavior" but about whether or not Mr McD upheld the O9A code...

If someone breaks the Code of Kindred Honor, he acts dishonorably.

Or are you trying to keep the case open because you want to continue bashing the O9A?

Bashing? I thought we were having a discussion.

Why else would you keep avoiding answering the question KS asked you?

I have already answered it:

It was sufficiently covered at 600 Club. The Code of Kindred Honor applies to people who know each other personally and are to each other like a family. At least, this is how it looks like:

"Our duty – as individuals who live by the Code of Kindred-Honour – is to be loyal to, and to defend, our own kind: to do our duty, even unto death, to those of our brothers and sisters to whom we have sworn a personal oath of loyalty."


And so on and so forth. How can you be loyal to the anonymous strangers online, even if they claim to be ONA? Perhaps, the problem of the ONA "family" is that you really don't know each other well enough to be able to follow the Code of Honor. Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to give some evidence of Ryan's dishonorable behavior. All these petty examples you gave at 600 are not examples of someone acting dishonorably.
 

kerriscott

Member
I have already answered it
No, you haven't.

It was sufficiently covered at 600 Club
Wrong. Because that very specific question I asked you here was not asked on the 600 club because the admission by Kris (which forms part of the question) came after those postings on the 600club.

Perhaps you can now make up yet another silly excuse for not - directly and honestly - answering that very specific question?

If someone breaks the Code of Kindred Honor, he acts dishonorably
Then given that Kris himself admitted he broke - did not abide by - the O9A code he was, according to that statement of yours, acting 'dishonorably'.

Therefore you're now finally admitting that Kris acted dishonorably, and that (given that he said he didn't give a **** about the code) he was not O9A and that therefore his claim to be O9A was false, and that - as a someone who acted dishonorably - he deserved approbation.
 

jeff77

Member
How can you be loyal to the anonymous strangers online, even if they claim to be ONA?
Did you overlook that KS already demolished you argument here - http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3861657-post292.html

Like KS said there -
1. Not 'strangers on the internet' but other O9A folk. 2. Not 'honor' per se but kindred honor, the O9A code. 3. Which code specifies how someone who is O9A interacts with other O9A folk and with mundanes. 4. If someone who claims to be O9A doesn't interact with other O9A folk according to that code, ergo they're not O9A. 5. If someone who claims to be O9A doesn't give a **** about the O9A code, then ergo they're not O9A but one of the O9A pretendu crowd.
Perhaps you never understood it was all about how O9A people relate to other O9A people both online and offline and via the internet or some medium and regardless of whether or not they're anonymous.

Heck, KS several times even linked to O9A texts about O9A etiquette. About the standards of behavior O9A people - if they're really O9A - should have toward other O9A people. The standards are here - O9A Etiquette

Those standards are derived from the O9A code so that if someone claiming to be O9A doesn't abide by them then that person is breaking the O9A code.

I'm still waiting for you to give some evidence of Ryan's dishonorable behavior.
You've just provided one, haven't you -

If someone breaks the Code of Kindred Honor, he acts dishonorably
Since Ryan admitted he didn't give a **** about the code O9A then his claims to be O9A for 8 years and to run and O9A nexion were dishonorable because false weren't they? Plus he was acting dishonorably wasn't he because he was lying.

Case closed then isn't it.
 

hollow

One of THEM
Some musings from some observations. (Addressed originally to many on facebook)

Elitism in Satanism attracts types who are or pretend to be desensitized to violence, killing and suffering of human beings and in some cases consider themselves above the 'mundanes' for this desensitization - and yet they campaign on such matters as saving this people, or that people, from injustice, appealing for petitions to be signed, for governments earlier rebuked for interfering in international affairs or tyrannizing the other countries of the world to DO SOMETHING, and in general for sympathy for these people, from other people, strangers, who, so earlier were mundane nothings to be trampled upon – are now the key to salvation and the solution to saving some poor hapless machine gun fodder halfway around the world they've never met – and who, if they've never met, have never judged, so may very well be campaigning for mundanes afterall... : so what is happening here? The actions speak louder than words. Many of these types are quite happy to throw themselves on the side of the 'Sinister' as elite - but are they simply delusional? Is switching one's Sinister capacity and Other Awareness capacity simply an inability to make up ones mind – or a dearth of knowing thyself? One might argue that either one embraces the Sinister in all its forms – and all its horrors - and really accepts Kali Yuga or the supposed elitist cold war against the mundanes as legitimate - or is arbitrarily choosing when something is Sinister and when it is not. Since the actions indicate that they are: this indicates the subjective arbitrariness of their principles and laws. You cannot embrace a little bit of evil - evil has nothing to do with it - but as an epithet, it suggests something that does not stop, that continually outdoes itself, something that goes well beyond any man's measure - many of those patting themselves on the back for being ultra-sinister, have either, contributed to this type of behaviour by encouraging and endorsing it in others and oneself: or have no idea what evil really can be and think there are boundaries, limits, to what people can do when motivated by a form. There aren't. There's no limits. How does one embrace ultra-evil (one particular traditional satanic term) and yet stop and get upset about fluffy bunnies required for that ultra-evil to thrive and live? (say, Yezidis, Palestinian children, or the next buzzgroup to capture the eye via media moments from now?) If you encourage this kind of behaviour, foster the sinister through sharing forms relating to the sinister, songs, art, opinions, ideas, laws, rules, principles, activities, 'pathei mathos' why be surprised? That only indicates a near complete ignorance of ones own actions, ones own effect, ones own awareness of the very forms one claims to have mastery over, to have subjected to their will, to supposedly dole out in controlled doses as one sees fit that makes them an 'elite'. I'm sure dozens of people over there have been influenced by extreme propaganda, and are now fulfilling what was written in word, in deed. So why, the surprise? Why the morality all of a sudden? Why the guilt trip on others to 'care' – to ' save them' – to 'sign your petition'?

For arguments sake, a couple of questions: if might is right – then the “Magi” are in control – and if they have that throne then they deserve that throne. Or are we going to claim that the “Magi” 'cheated' their way to the top?

If being Sinister is what works to gain power, prestige, understanding and join with the Theos to become Immortal – haven't the “Magi” proven themselves more adept at wielding the Sinister than any other person, group, or pretender to the throne? Haven't they been willing to do Anything to stay on top, including let the runaway imaginations of those who believed in the Devil and clad him more and more with accoutrements of form and finery til he stood before the Middle Ages a terrifying spectre of moral persuasion become more powerful a motivator than god - and in the words of an anonymous "What people weren't willing to do for the love of god they did for fear of the reprisal of the Devil"– and didn't all of it – every sordid, nasty, human, cruel, vicious, talent they have – all the deception, all the lies, all the hatred, injustice, brute force, ultra-violence, genuine lack of boundaries, get them to where they are today?

But these are our enemies? These - who if we changed the word Magi to Sinister to make some tin foil hats happy and would therein notice no difference in methodological principle - are our enemies? Would someone like to explain to me again the difference between Sinister and Mundane – and be very careful doing it?

So, now that there is mass culling between the two sides, this is a problem? That there is great suffering, pain, anguish, injustice - 'innocent' people being blown to pieces, all the horrors of war, ('children' apparently has a more profound effect it seems - "oh to hell with the adults but wont somebody think of the children!') children being injured by golly - is it because its unevenly matched? Is that the problem that requires petitions and interventions? Is it purely because you read about the Yezidi somewhere being Devil Worshippers and decided that you had to help them from your home base because gosh darn it they are just like me? Is it because you actually believe one side has the moral highground and is being unjustly persecuted? Or is it because you don't actually have what it takes to see the Sinister in full-blown motion? Did you open the box too far? Do you want to put it back in? Do any of you know how many people died to feed the mining, production, manufacture and labour demands for the ipad, ipod and pc? Have a guess. There's blood ALL over your hands. YOU and ME and EVERYONE ELSE contributed to the things we cry about, the things that are too much for our precious hearts to bear.

I am fine with the blood on my hands. Cry me a ******* river.
 

kerriscott

Member
I am fine with the blood on my hands. Cry me a ******* river.

I fled him, down the nights and down the days;
I fled him, down the arches of the years;
I fled him, down the labyrinthine ways
Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears
I hid from him, and under running laughter.
 

hollow

One of THEM
I fled him, down the nights and down the days;
I fled him, down the arches of the years;
I fled him, down the labyrinthine ways
Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears
I hid from him, and under running laughter.

Lest, having Him, I must have naught beside).
But, if one little casement parted wide,
The gust of His approach would clash it to.
Fear wist not to evade, as Love wist to pursue.
Across the margent of the world I fled,
And troubled the gold gateways of the stars,
Smiting for shelter on their clanged bars;
Fretted to dulcet jars...
 

kerriscott

Member
This work by Myatt on the Pymander Tractate is interesting - and continually ignored as a conversation I see. Would you care to discuss it, Kerri Scott?

I will invest time in a comparison between this Commentary on the Divine Pymander of Hermes by G.R.S. Mead.
and this: http://davidmyatt.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/hermetica_editio-princeps.pdf
Certainly we might discuss the matter, although I assume the discussion will be about ancient Hellenic hermeticism and modern occult philosophies embodying some aspects of such ancient hermeticism, rather than about philology.
 

hollow

One of THEM
Certainly we might discuss the matter, although I assume the discussion will be about ancient Hellenic hermeticism and modern occult philosophies embodying some aspects of such ancient hermeticism, rather than about philology.

Correct. And yes - particularly as it relates to the o9a. Doubtlessly the translations of English and Greek profoundly differentiate the landscapes that arise from reading a translation, and I, too mundane to read Greek must rely on Myatt's efforts - but I think there is much to be gained from even a layman's approach to this (it seems, invisible?) gem that fits the fools crown. I am not interested in arguing the semantics of language - but grasping and feeling out the connections that this illuminates.

I'll be back - I need to read the two tractates side by side.
 
Last edited:

kerriscott

Member
Correct. And yes - particularly as it relates to the o9a. Doubtlessly the translations of English and Greek profoundly differentiate the landscapes that arise from reading a translation, and I, too mundane to read Greek must rely on Myatt's efforts
Excellent. I also am not qualified nor knowledgeable enough to expound upon philological matters in relation to that Greek text, given that my own field of expertise, while necessary and important to the functioning of modern Western societies and certainly more lucrative in terms of 'filthy lucre' than that of a philologist or a classical scholar, is - esoterically, and in scholarly terms - quite mundane.

I'll be back
And doubtless I shall respond :)
 

hollow

One of THEM
also here: Comparison of the Pymander Tractate (part 1 – in progress) | THE TEMPLE OF THEM

Numbers added by myself to aid reference to my readers.

Some very brief, opening comments and allusions/parallels drawn between the pymander tractate and the o9a. Posted in parts because of the 10k word limit.

[1] Due to the exoteric complexity and esoteric simplicity - I've made very brief notes (some intuition required, some deep knowledge of o9a required):

Once a man had come into touch with the Great Synthesis, there rushed into his mind innumerable passages of scripture, scraps of myths, fragments of cosmogenesis, facts, and symbols of all kinds that fitted naturally. These were not any special writer's monopoly, there was no copyright in them, and they were all utterances of the same Logos, the Great Instructor of humanity.

[2] - The exoteric and esoteric contrivances of Anton Long – that broad personification of anonymity – the deliverer of messages without attribution.

Thus the literature that was produced in the Corpus Hermeticum was anonymous or pseudographic. There was first of all a nucleus of personal vision and direct illumination, then a grouping of similar matter from various sources into a whole for didactic purposes. Nor was there any idea among these mystics and scripture-writers that the form once issued should become forever stereotyped as infallible; there were many recensions and additions and interpolations. It was left to those without the sense of illumination to stereotype the forms and claim for them the infallacy of verbal dictation by the Deity. Those who wrote the apocalypses from personal knowledge of vision could not make such claim for their scriptures, for they knew how they were written and the nature of their hearing and sight at the time they were experienced.

[3]-Correctly stated, perhaps for the first time – the raison detre for the OrderS of Nine Angles. The tension between o9a and THEM is the authenticity of Long and Myatt's journey vs a percieved inauthenticity of Ryan/Krist's. Unbeknownst to me, perhaps I was stealing thunder the Inquisition believe is unjustified thunder. Of that my conscience is clear though my forms may not be.

The first part of the question he "holds" in his mind is: How came this cosmos into being? The answer is the changing of the Boundless Presence into "Light -- sweet joyous Light." He loses all sight of "all things" in his mind (the mental image he had formed of cosmos) and is plunged into the infinitude of Limitless Light and infinite joy, which transports him out of himself in highest ecstasy.

[4] - David's bifurcation of the acausal/causal.

But he has craved for Gnosis, not joy and light, but Wisdom, the understanding and reconciliation of the great Opposites, the Cross of all Manifestation. Therefore must he know the Mystery of Ignorance as well as that of Knowledge. Within the infinitude of Light appears the Shadow of the Unknown, which translates itself to his consciousness as Darkness -- the Shadow of the Thrice-unknown Darkness -- which, as Damascius tells us, "was the First Principle of the Egyptians, the ineffable Mystery, of which they said nothing," and of which our author says nothing.

[5] - Being the Sinister. The necessity of dark deeds and no limit to them to Understand, to Know. Paralells with Vamachara. In simplistic terms, there is no light, without shadow. The darker the shadow, the more brilliant the light – and the necessity of being amoral – is to devote oneself to the furthest possible points of dark and light. It is not an 'opposite' to morality – it is not a badness for the sake of being bad – it is heurisy that must take the form (to the observer) as heresy. Their judgements – irrelevant. The 'contradiction of Myatt's deeds is an uninitiated perception – the forms that control, that bind, that restrict one from ineffable union with the Numen – irrelevant. One either wants and is willing to Know – at ANY cost, act, risk, path(s) – or one is not. Myatt was willing. This is why, the o9a is not and never was Satanic – merely made visible as such to encourage the leap by others into the hermetic journey. It's 'evil' certainly evil – and its 'dark gods' certainly dark – but only from an uninitiated perspective – from an initiated perspective, simply a flowing through or moving with, nature on ones wyrd wander toward. Toward what? Toward Sapanur – but more correctly, toward and twixt life itself – the Mysterium. In laymans terms - if one was born afresh to earth and was stopped, was hemmed in by all the forms scattered about by various past and present hierarchies, authorities, cultures, social mores – one should discover nothing – overcoming the limits of these forms is just the beginning – the equivalent of navigating the marshy fens and quicksands before reaching the mountain pass and the ranges beyond. One either lets things get in their way to Know and is stopped by their own limits, by their adherence to norms, by their moral or ethical code, by their physical/mental ability, by ones stomach turning – or, quite simply, one Knows. And there aren't very many who Know. Because something or someone generally always stops someone from Knowing what there is to Know.

His one desire, his only will, is now to "learn the things that are, and comprehend their nature and know God." He craves for Gnosis -- Gnosis of the Cosmos and its mysteries, Gnosis of Nature or the Great Mother, and, finally, Gnosis of God, the Father of the worlds. This is the one question he "holds in his mind." His whole being is concentrated into this question, this one point of interrogation.

[6] Pathei Mathos and the goal of the Immortal

It is to be noticed that we are not told, as in the Gospel of Eve, that the seer stood, as it were, apart from himself, and saw his little self and greater Self simultaneously. He is conscious of a Presence, of a persona in the highest theological meaning of the word, who is not seen so much as felt. He speaks to this Presence mind to Mind; hehears this Presence rather than sees it.
[7] That of course being the Numen or what we, call, THEM.

This Darkness comes forth from within outwards to the disciple's consciousness, and it spreads "downwards" in sinuous folds like a Great Snake, symbolizing, presumably, the unknown, and to him unknowable, mysteries of the differentiation of the root of matter of the cosmos that is to be. Its motion is spiral, sinuous, unending vibrations -- not yet confined into a sphere; not yet ordered -- but chaotic, in unceasing turmoil, a terrible contrast to the sweet peace of the Light. This primordial darkness gradually changes from Dark Space into a Fluid or Flowing Matter, or Watery Substance. That is, presumably, what the Greek mystics would have called Rhea, the Primal Mother or First Matter of the future universe before it has even been manifested.

[8] Symbolized by the Tree of Wyrd and its spiralling path toward Saturn or Gnosis. Symbolized by the abstraction of the causal and acausal dissecting via the Star Game. These two vehicles symbolized and theorized from the abstraction itself of the bifurcation of time and acausal space into causal as per nexion intuitively grasped but difficult to share.

It wails and groans -- that is to say, its motion is as yet unharmonized. In the terminology of the Sophia-mythus, it is the inchoate birth from the Sophia Above, in the Fullness, brought forth by herself alone without her syzygy (or consort). On account of its imperfection, she wails and groans to the Father of All and His Perfections, that her Perfection may be sent to fashion her child, who is herself in manifestation, into a world of order, and eventually into Perfection in its turn.
The Primal Undifferentiated or Chaotic Sound, from the Darkness of its first state, gradually manifests itself under the brooding power of the Boundless Light, into less confused thunderings and murmurings, and finally reaches a stage symbolized by the "Cry," which is a Voice of Fire. This is passionate Fire, not distilled Light, and it expresses a need and want, longing for union with the Articulate Power or Cosmic Word.

[9] The Seven Fold Way. Beginning at the Moon Sphere and in complete ignorance – pathei mathos allows understanding and vision, a numinous connexion with nature that is charted through the marking of the pathways of the spheres – one might associate the cry with the naming, the thought-form “Order of the Nine Angles” - breathed into life from necessity to cojoin with the Forces of THEM – or the Numen.
 

hollow

One of THEM
The three most primal stages thus seem to be symbolized by Fire, the Watery Substance, and Darkness. These were not our differentiated elements but the Primal Pre-cosmic Elements, what Christian theologists would call the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The same idea, though in different forms, is met with in a system of the Gnosis preserved for us by the Old Latin translator of Irenmus and also by Theodorer who ascribes it to the Sithians, whom he says are also called Ophianae or Ophirae. Now, Seth was Typhon or Darkness, Dark Light, and this Seth may very well have been symbolized as the Great Serpent of Darkness, as it is in our text. Hence the name "Those of the Serpent," perhaps given them by their theological adversaries (orthodox Jews and Christians). In this system the Primal Elements are given as Water, Darkness, Abyss, and Chaos. The Light was the Child of the supreme Trinity -- the First Man, the Second Man, and the Holy Spirit or First Woman. This Light is what the Jewish and Christian overworking of the original tradition called the Cosmic Christ.
Thus the Fire of Desire, or the Cry in the Darkness, was to be satisfied or checked or quenched by the Light's fashioning its inchoate substance into the cosmos; and so in another Vision, preserved in another treatise in the Corpus Hermeticum, Hermes sees "through the gaze of the Master," the cosmos in its finished beauty, when all things in it are full of Light and nowhere is there Fire or Darkness.

[10] This touches on some deeply esoteric themes and it is very difficult to be sure they have been correctly identified – but the basic paralell with the seven fold way is thesis – antithesis – synthesis. If we imagine that a man is a vessel – he is to be filled all the way with as much darkness as he can exhaust – until he reaches the Abyss – and can go no darker. Then this is emptied of him. Then he is to travel the inverse, and be filled with as much Numen as he can exhaust – until he reaches the Abyss – and can go no lighter. Only by going to both Abyss does the necessary alchemical change take place on the vessel itself. Which, in clumsy terms – requires both – because it requires neither. That is, only through a personal exhaustion of heurisy does there come the wisdom to understand and Know. Said a different way – there is beauty in horror, and horror in beauty. To understand Form, one must turn it around 361 degrees.

First Emanation: The Descent of the Logos
Upon this Cry for Light, into the Heart of the Dark-Moist-Fiery nature is injected a Holy Word, the Seed of the future Cosmos. This Word is articulate, reasonable, and ordering. The Cosmic Animal Nature is impregnated with the Light of the Supernal Reason, which pervades its whole being. This pervading immediately effects an ordering of the Chaotic Elements into Pure Fire, Pure Air, and Pure Water-Earth. Moreover, it is to be gathered from the sequel that Nature saw the Word and all his beauty in her Fire and Air, but as yet only heard him in her Water-Earth.
The Shepherd thus explains that Light is really Mind, and Mind is really God -- God prior to Nature but not prior to Darkness. The Unity of Light and Darkness is a still higher Mystery. Light and Mind is the highest concept the disciple can yet form of God. The Light-Word, or emanation of Supernal Reason, is Son of God, Son of Great Mind.

[11] I believe this word was “Chaos” - and what appears to have happened is that many have understood this statement by early o9a to be a moral platitude that is calling for evil, for destruction, for anarchy. But this is too simplistic. Chaos, or Xaos is not this platitude, that the o9a refer to – but rather the 'free exploration of the numen' and this can involve both beatific darkness as well as sublime light – since when the o9a arrived on earth and began to assess the landscape, the 'sublime light' had already been taken to extremes by various generations of occultists, new-agers, hippies – the world was unbalanced – and required a return to xaos – not evil, not even a moralism, if we think about it – but all that moralism 'might' entail and more as part of the process. Xaos – through the o9a, has returned perhaps not a balance, yet, but evokes a searching for balance that Myatt desperately wished to convey early – gradually less frantically as time went by, resulting in his numinous way writings. Thus I might add, do 'Insight Roles' contain both sinister/dark/violent archetypes, and numinous/holy r'les, for instance.

The Revelation of the Pleroma
At this point in the treatise, the sequence of the narrative is broken by a second vision and is only resumed later. The breaking of the main narrative may be regarded as a necessary digression rather than as an interpolation of foreign material. It is necessary in order to bring on to the scene the hitherto invisible Greatnesses, "within" the Veil of Light, which constitute the Economy of the Pleroma. More had to be seen by the disciple before he was in a position to understand what he had so far seen. He must now unite with the Light, his previous seeing being that of its reflection on his own mind. Not that this logos and Light (or Mind) are separate. They are in reality one, the Son is one with the Father in the state that transcends all opposites. The Logos apparently comes forth, yet it remains ever with the Father, and this coming-forth-and-yet-remaining constitutes its Life -- in other words, it is an emanation. Thus Hermes is bidden to understand the Light: as Life, and so make "friends" with it.

[12] to this end, Myatt undertook his 'Muslim' “role”. And from it the Synthesis of the Numinous Way.

Hitherto the Light had been one for him a sameness that his highest vision could not pierce, the Veil of Light that shut the beauties, perfections and greatnesses of the Intelligible from the eyes of his mind. To pierce this veil, a still more expanded power of sight had to be given him by the Master. The little word or lightspark within him is intensified by the Great Word of the Master, this Word being an Intelligible Utterance of the One Mind, an intensification of being.

[13] The Exeatia of Living.

Hermes now sees and understands the countless Powers within the Light, which constitute the Intelligible Archetypal Forms or Divine Ideas of all worlds. Between the special sensible cosmos of his prior vision and this Immensity was a Mighty Power or Great Boundary (Horos) that encircled the elements of the sensible cosmos and held its Fire in check.

[14] being, the very specific term and phrasing “The Order, of Nine, Angles”

God Desiring Himself
In amazement, Hermes asks whence come these apparently disorderly and untamed elements of the new world that have to be subdued and separated from the concord of the perfection of the Powers? And the answer is that Chaos, too, has its being from God's Will. Discord and Concord, Chaos and Cosmos, are both of God. The Primal Elements are, as it were, the passions of God's Will desiring Himself. It is Himself as Mother or Spouse desiring Himself as Father. In other of the Trismegistic tractates this "Feminine Aspect" of Deity is called Wisdom, Nature, Generation, or Isis. He is Wisdom as desiring Himself -- that Desire being the Primal Cause as Mother of the whole world-process, which is consummated by His Fullness uniting with His Desire or Wisdom, and so perfecting it. This is the whole burden of the Gnostic Sophia-mythus, from which the main elements of the Pymander might be derived.

[15] - The Immortal – the conscious directing of an Aeon, the toward for all, of evolution.

The Mother, when thought of as without the Pleroma, is impregnated by the Word, which the Gnostic Basilides would have called the Allseed Potency of the Pleroma endowed with all Powers, and sent forth as the seed of the sensible cosmos that is to be. The Mother in her higher nature contemplates the Eternal Cosmos (or Order of the Pleroma) and in her lower nature copies its beauties by means of the permutations and combinations of her elements and the generations and transformations of her lives or souls.

[16] the Ethos of Earth's bearing (in higher nature) , and (in lower nature) the 'Tribes' spoken of.
 

hollow

One of THEM
What some authors have seen as the fundamental dualism of our text is, however, by no means so very marked, for it leaves it clearly to be inferred that the Darkness comes from the Light itself, for previously there was nothing but Light and all thing had become Light to the eye of the seer. It was, in my opinion, precisely for the sake of removing the thought of dualism that the seer is shown a still more intimate vision within the Light Veil, where all ideas of monotheism, dualism, tritheism, polytheism, and pantheism lose their formal distinctions in a Formless State, or, at any rate, in a state of being where all are interblended with all. In describing it, the "tongue of flesh" has to use the familiar language of form, but every word employed has a new significance; for even the "tongue of angels" cannot describe it, or any of the "tongues" of heaven; He alone who speaks forth the Words of the One Mind can express it.

[17] An interesting interplay being that David Myatt went beyond good and evil to this place, this silent desert, this mactoron – but the language of the recent incarnation of the ona seems not – seems to hinge great importance on dualism and an us and them – interesting because of what it denotes, which should be obvious, but is not.

We now return to the main narrative. Within the World-Egg, which was encircled by the Mighty Power (the Gnostic Horos), there had already been developed the three Cosmic Elements of Fire, Air, and Water-Earth. This had been effected by the descent of the Cosmic Logos into the Primal Elements of Disorder. As the Logos descended, Fire and Air ascended, and the Logos remained in Water-Earth. This was the result of the First Outpouring from the potency of the Pleroma the First Word uttered by the One Mind.
The Second Outpouring of Mind was of Mind no longer regarded as Light only, but as Light and Life, Male-Female. This emanation appeared as the enforming Mind -- that is, Mind the Maker, the Fashioner or Former, Artificer or Demiurge of lives or souls. It was the ensouling of the Ordered Elements of Nature with lives, whereby these Cosmic Elements were drawn together into forms.

[18] First Mind being what THEM call the Thrasz – o9a might infer as the Acausal / second mind what THEM call the Phyrm – o9a might infer as the Causal.

The Great Mind, as Light and Life, reflected itself in the "pure formation" of Nature -- that is to say, in Fire and Spirit (Air), Fire for Light and Spirit for Life, to further enform, things. The Mighty Power or Self-limitation of Mind, the boundary that no mortal can pass, marks off the formative area of the whole cosmos. This area, however, was by no means only the mixed sensible world that we perceive with our present physical senses. On the contrary, there are within it various orders of the main cosmos. For the Ordering Mind, as the Enformer or Soul-fashioner, differentiates itself into seven Ruling Forms or Spheres that "enclose" the mixed sensible cosmos; these spheres, therefore, must be of a psychic nature -- that is to say, of a pure or subtle substance. They are forms of subtle matter endowed with reason. They constitute the cosmic engine of the fashioning of souls, or psychic natures, and of their perpetual transforming. Their energies and activities are those of Fate, or the ordered sequence of cause and effect, symbolized by spheres perpetually entering into themselves.

[19] Naturally perceived – this is symbolized by the Tree of Wyrd, its seven spheres and the pathways that join them as a unified matrix. The Sphere's of a psychic nature are the Forces as themselves – the spheres of subtle nature are the Forms as they appear – the reason that binds them – is ultimately to give way to the Logos – to experiencing the denotation of the 'energy' of the Spheres in its purest essence – in isolation each – and then in unison all.

In all the main phases of this divine operation, there is to be observed the idea of a downward tendency followed by an upward. The Darkness descends; it then transmutes itself and aspires above in a Cry, or Vibration, or primordial yearning for Light. The Word descends, and immediately the Fire and Air ascend. Mind the Maker descends, and immediately the Word ascends from the mixed Water-Earth, which unites (at-ones) itself with its co-essential emanation from the Father. This creates a space about the Seven, and thus leaves the still down-tending elements in the Element Water-Earth deprived of its immediate presence, after giving physical matter the initial impulse to order. This physical matter our author calls "pure matter," meaning thereby matter deprived of the immediate presence of Reason. Hereupon from the impulse she has received, Nature begins her physical enformation, develops her physical elements and bodies of irrational lives. Water-Earth divides into water and earth, and also air, for this air is clearly something different from the Spirit-Air that ascended; the lower air is one of the downward elements.

[20] The immersement of the neophyte into the energies, forms, associations, living of various energies denoted by the spheres exhausts appearance and gives way to understanding – to essence – which bears barely remote resemblance to the former. This opens a finer appreciation, a truer understanding of the forces thus symbolized Without the trappings and burdens of form – and only force alone – which is intimate. There is therefore, matter, intuitively understood without the burden of reason.

When this had been accomplished, there followed a Third Outpouring -- the descent of Man, the consummation of the whole enformation of things, a still more transcendent manifestation of Mind, the One Form that contains all forms, His Very Image coequal with Himself. God finally becomes Himself to consummate and save the cosmos in the form of Man -- that is, to gather it to Himself and take it back into the Pleroma.

[21] And here we understand the ferocity of the o9a toward some if we understand the passage correctly. Myatt's Aeonics, Myatt's Numinous Way, Myatt's Pathei Mathos, Long's Order of the Nine Angles.
And the evolutionary drive for an individual to dissolve into a collective and be reborn anew – and too – that which it is reborn into, anew.


Nevertheless, the Word and the Mind the Maker and Man are not three different persons; they are all co-essential with each other and one with the Father. For the Word is co-essential with the Demiurgic Mind, and the latter is Brother of Man, and thus Man is coequal with God. And so Man, as the Beloved, descends; and in his descent he is clothed with all the powers of his Brother's creative energy, the creative energy of Life conjoined with rational Light.
Having learned the lesson of the conformations and of the limitations of the Spheres, he desires to break right through the Great Boundary itself; but to do this, he must descend still further into matter. Before he can burst through upwards, he must break through downwards. Accordingly he breaks through the Spheres downwards, seeking his consort Nature below, and shows her his Divine Form radiant with all the energies bestowed on him by all the Powers above.

[22] It is not dismissive to explain this as the dissolution of ALL Forms and more accurately all For(m). This is how contradictions resolve themselves. An example oft given by my Temple is that of vantage – learned through the abstractive lessons and vehicle of the star game – how one thing is no thing – and in being no thing – many things besides. What appears as a busy street filled with shoppers, noises, cars, signs, smells, conversations, exhaust fumes, transactions, commerce and clusters a thousand forms into the presence of mind – can, elevated high enough above the cityscape be seen as one silent city – even as that life beneath goes on unseen.

And she in her great love, wound herself round the image of this Form mirrored upon her water, and the shadow of it thrown upon her earth. Just as the Darkness wound itself, like a Great Serpent, round the lower parts of the Light, so does Nature coil herself round the shadow and reflection of Man. Man is Above, yet he is Below; man is free, yet is he bound -- though bound willingly in love for her who is himself.

[23] O9a and THEM differ in no way ontologically here – both of us are expressions of Nature desirous for evolution – inescapable parts of the whole of Nature. One is younger than the other – with obvious implications.
 
Top