Babies in heaven... Right or wrong?

[Just_me_Mike]

You really can't blame God for disliking babies. They don't pray, they don't tithe, and they're never on the right page in the hymnal. They're selfish, greedy, and demanding. They never have anything interesting to add to the conversation and they never offer to drive anybody to the airport.

Yes because money is the root of all evil, so the people of God are eagerly collecting so it won't infect the people. They should all be praised!:angel2:

 

[Just_me_Mike]

firstly what u ask isnt found the bible is it? if you grant that in the bible God gives salvation to children then you have to give me scripture saying that he doesnt give it to children who are killed via waith. If you cannot then we have to assume that he treats all the children equally surely.

Try these verses, we see that God declares the entire earth is corrupt. If we assume that babies are all saints, than surely one of them could have become good right? Well God obviously thinks it isn't going to happen, otherwise he would have saved the earth. Babies were not special, and offered no hope for the earth.

Genesis 6
11: The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12: And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13: And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Also, here God declares he won't destroy a place if anyone is righteous. Which would include babies or anyone. Please read and comment.

"20": And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
"21": I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
"22": And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
"23": And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
"24": Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
"25": That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
"26": And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
"27": And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
"28": Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
"29": And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
"30": And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
"31": And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
"32": And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
"33": And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

 

[tarasan]

Try these verses, we see that God declares the entire earth is corrupt. If we assume that babies are all saints, than surely one of them could have become good right? Well God obviously thinks it isn't going to happen, otherwise he would have saved the earth. Babies were not special, and offered no hope for the earth..

We assume that they are all innocent and that they do not know right or wrong and therefore cannot be judged, im specifying this so that I can say that no none of them could have reached the standard of "goodness" that is required for salvation, because as soon as that "innocense" was lost they would have began falling away because no one who can decide for themselves can remain good and pure, because like you said the world is corrupt.

Also, here God declares he won't destroy a place if anyone is righteous. Which would include babies or anyone. Please read and comment.

Righteous ="strictly observant of morality: always behaving according to a religious or moral code"
define righteous - Bing

Babies are not righteous because they do not adhere to the law or to the moral code, they were innocent so they didnt know what the morale Code was. Innocence is not the same as righteousness. also think about how you adapt to our society, If our society does things and finds them acceptable how likely are we when we grow up to find those things acceptable?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

We assume that they are all innocent and that they do not know right or wrong and therefore cannot be judged, im specifying this so that I can say that no none of them could have reached the standard of "goodness" that is required for salvation, because as soon as that "innocense" was lost they would have began falling away because no one who can decide for themselves can remain good and pure, because like you said the world is corrupt.



Righteous ="strictly observant of morality: always behaving according to a religious or moral code"
define righteous - Bing

Babies are not righteous because they do not adhere to the law or to the moral code, they were innocent so they didnt know what the morale Code was. Innocence is not the same as righteousness. also think about how you adapt to our society, If our society does things and finds them acceptable how likely are we when we grow up to find those things acceptable?

You have a couple problems here, scripturally speaking.

1. The idea that we can become good as we get older is highly contested as to what the bible actually teaches. The whole free will vs predestination. So I am not going to get into that on this thread, because there are plenty around already.
2. You say babies are innocent but not righteous. Not to mention that there is no basis for that comment other than your own opinion, the bible does say only the righteous will inherit the kingdom of god. So, you would have to show where it says, the innocent and righteous are two separate things in the bible, and that they both inherit the salvation.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Could it really be heaven with all that screaming going on?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Could it really be heaven with all that screaming going on?

Without the screaming there would be no need for golden leaves.

Golden leaves are as precious to a crying child as gold is to its possessor.

I thought I would offer a useless reply to your useless post

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I thought I would offer a useless reply to your useless post

Useless, huh? Some of us realize that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Don't get mad at me because reality plays a role in my posts. :no:

 

[Erebus]

Enchanted one has a point. What kind of paradise would be infested with noisy, stinking, drooling abominations? Babies most likely go to Hell by default, just to torment the sinners even more.

 

[Aquitaine]

So, I just got done listening to prominent Christian teachers explain why babies go to heaven by default. They cited a few biblical passage from both Old and New Testaments, and for the most part made logical arguments. To summarize:

• Jesus loved little children, as evidence that he made it a point to tell people heaven was made of people just like children
• God often talks about his mercy, and if God was behind children dying or allowed it to happen, it doesn't matter because in his love they automatically go to heaven. As evidenced by the bible frequently saying God is a God of love, and disallowing babies into heaven is not an act of love.
• Lastly, babies neither have the ability or capacity to deny or accept Jesus or God and as such are covered by God's love, and get a pass into heaven.

So, I listened quietly, and after everyone was done speaking, I nodded my head. I simply asked one question, and was unable to get a reply. So I will ask those of you that teach such things the same question.

If God can see the future and see the past, is it not fair to say God knows whether or not a particular baby would ever have accepted God or Jesus?

Now, I got no serious replies, and in fact I think I made some angry. However, I think it is a valid question. To God, why would it matter if it was a baby or not? God knows everyone's heart today and even into the future does he not? Is God limited in this capacity?

The reason I bring this up, is it seems like such a big deal in Christian circles. However, using the logic I am suggesting simply opens the discussion back up for further review.

At what point does a "child" or "baby" no longer be? Yes, Humans can make definitions based off age etc, but what would a God define as a "baby" or "infant"?

Given that God is by default, infinitely more intellegent and knowledgeable etc, would an adult Human with a life-span of about 60-90 years be percieved as just a baby to a God?

And not only that, but we were all babies at some point, so regardless of whether or not God loves babies, it doesn't matter because he let's them grow up and then throws crap at most of them.

Besides, if God could see into the future and tell who was gonna life a good life etc (and that's assumed 'cause he's impossibly omnipotent etc) then it bypasses the whole "point" of religion anyways, atleast with the Abrahamic ones & the road to saviour etc.

Because then, why bother even creating Humans and letting them live if God can already choose the souls that he already knows will be saved or lead a good life, and then stick them in Heaven?

Also, why even have a Heaven and a Hell? What's the point in that? I don't see how some omnipotent God would give a damn quite frankly.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Useless, huh? Some of us realize...

And some of us like lollipops
Thanks for another great contribution! :yes: