babysitters who repeatedly raped a 12-week baby may have sentences increased

[michel]

How would you all 'punish' these two ? If this is justice, the law's an ***.(quote Charles Dickens)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/5057164.stm
Last Updated: Wednesday, 7 June 2006, 19:34 GMT 20:34 UK

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pa....uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/5057164.stmhttp://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pa....uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/5057164.stm
Ruling due on baby rape sentences

Alan Webster and Tanya French pleaded guilty

The Court of Appeal is to rule on Thursday on whether two babysitters who repeatedly raped a 12-week baby should have their sentences increased.
Alan Webster, 40, was sentenced to life in January but is eligible to apply for parole after six years and Tanya French, 19, was jailed for five years.
The Attorney General said the pair, from Hatfield, Herts, should not have received discounts for pleading guilty.
Lord Goldsmith QC described the offences as of the "gravest depravity".
Abuse photographed
He asked the five-judge panel, headed by the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Phillips, to rule the sentences currently being served by the pair were "unduly lenient".
He urged the judges to increase the jail terms.
Webster was jailed at St Alban's Crown Court after pleading guilty to rape, indecent assault, permitting indecent images to be taken of a child and making indecent images. French, 19, admitted the same charges. Webster and French raped the baby girl and took photographs of the abuse.

 

[kreeden]

There is something seriously wrong with those two Michel . { although I doubt anyone needs me to point that out } .

The question is , can whatever is wrong ever be cured ? I doubt it . And in cases like this , I personally have no problem with capital punishment .

 

[Smoke]

People like that should probably be committed to an institution for life -- whether a penal institution or a mental institution makes little difference to me, since neither one is likely to make them fit to return to society.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

People like that should probably be committed to an institution for life -- whether a penal institution or a mental institution makes little difference to me, since neither one is likely to make them fit to return to society.

Or simply killed - provided that they're not insane.

 

[Jaymes]

Eligible for parole after six years and the other only getting five years?

Has everyone gone mad?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Has everyone gone mad?

Well a man come on the 6 o’clock news
Said somebody’s been shot, somebody’s been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didn’t get too far yeah
They didn’t get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

Chorus:

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune
We’ll all meet back at the local saloon
We’ll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We’ve got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
It’s time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send ’em all to their maker and he’ll settle ’em down
You can bet he’ll set ’em down ’cause

 

[polomint]

I am normally very liberal about punishment, but I believe that these people have no ability to turn around they ways, the rot is to far in.

We have to avoid spending to much money on keeping these miscreants as possible.
While keeping them locked up, allow them jut BREAD AND WATER , let them suffer.
Also let them have access to ways of commiting suicide, we shouldn't kill them, it is not our right, but if they wish to do it let them.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I am normally very liberal about punishment, but I believe that these people have no ability to turn around they ways, the rot is to far in.

We have to avoid spending to much money on keeping these miscreants as possible.
While keeping them locked up, allow them jut BREAD AND WATER , let them suffer.
Also let them have access to ways of commiting suicide, we shouldn't kill them, it is not our right, but if they wish to do it let them.

We have the right to kill them in Texas! You do something like that and you belong to the state. You'll be in prison for a number of years knowing exactly when you will die, and then buried in an unmarked grave with a number on it instead of a name.

 

[Smoke]

We have the right to kill them in Texas!

The Saudi Arabia of North America.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The Saudi Arabia of North America.

"Justice is one thing you should always find...
You gotta saddle up your boys,
You gotta draw a hard line..."

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The Saudi Arabia of North America.

I really miss the good 'ol days when they had capital punishment for rape. They've recently changed that, and I don't understand why. Damn Yankees.

I see on the wiki article that Lousiana and Florida have death penalty for sex crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

 

[evearael]

I really miss the good 'ol days when they had capital punishment for rape.

*nods* They are trying to reinstate it in one of the Carolinas, but I'm not sure if it passed. What that pair deserves is not appropriate to describe on RF.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What that pair deserves is not appropriate to describe on RF.

That's right. I'd settle for death, though. Knowing that you'll be executed by the state while sitting in a tiny cell for 10 years is punishment enough in my book - but I'd look the other way on whatever the family would like to do to these animals. At the very least, these monsters don't deserve to see the light of day again. Ever.

 

[michel]

Trying to 'relate' between natural human emotion, and Religious beliefs is tough on this one. For a start, why did these two become the type of person they are ? whose fault is that ?

I must admit that both my wife and I 'cringe' when we sometimes see adverts on televison for..maybe baby oil; (Mum and Baby use it) etc.

The sight of a mum and baby naked (obviously photographed so as not to show what ought not to be shown) has the same effect on both of us.

When our kids were small, we would never have given such an advert a second thought. Now, the immediate thought is "Oh dear! Is that advert going to create more of a desire in a pedophile ?" (I know it sounds silly, but that is the way we both feel).

The two have done something dreadful (there is no doubt). I can't personally think of a punishment to fit the crime. I don't believe in capital punishment, and any form of torture or ill-tretment goes against the laws of decency....And tyes, before you all say it; the two guys have been 'indecent' themselves. But two wrongs don't make a right.

People put in Prison for this sort of crime tend to get what they deserve (if you think of it that way) from other prisoners. I don't like that either, but it does seem to be recognised as what will happen. Prison ? Capital Punishment ? A frontal Lobotomy ? I honestly don't know. Whatever the punishment, it will do no good to the poor child.

 

[Draka]

I don't think that capital punishment is necessary in this case. Not that they don't deserve whatever end they get, but the fact remains that a vast amount of people in prison are not in there for that reason and they have children of their own. Child molesters of that degree don't usually make it very long in prison before they have some sort of an "accident". Up their sentence time and throw them in the harshest prison with the most henious of criminals. They won't last long anyway. Even murders and more have children of their own. And they don't have qualms with doing something to people like these if they know that they're never getting out anyway. There's just a horrible "accident" is all. Let their prison mates take care of them.

 

[Æsahættr]

Well, given the current run of replies...I can see I'm going to make myself popular with this:
I don't think that they should be killed
I don't think that they should have a life sentence with no chance for release
I think they should serve a sentence based on rehabilitation, and based on the principle that they will be released if and when they are deemed by experts to be safe to society, not on a predefined length
I think that any sort of justice based on gut morality, that is, based on people's instinct reactions about how horrific they find something is, rather than on unemotionally considering the case, is very dangerous, and that there's a risk of it in cases like these

That said, I should also emphasise that if they never become safe to society, I would not be in favour of their release at any point.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, given the current run of replies...I can see I'm going to make myself popular with this:
I don't think that they should be killed
I don't think that they should have a life sentence with no chance for release
I think they should serve a sentence based on rehabilitation, and based on the principle that they will be released if and when they are deemed by experts to be safe to society, not on a predefined length
I think that any sort of justice based on gut morality, that is, based on people's instinct reactions about how horrific they find something is, rather than on unemotionally considering the case, is very dangerous, and that there's a risk of it in cases like these

That said, I should also emphasise that if they never become safe to society, I would not be in favour of their release at any point.

I agree. They're entitled to a fair trial, and a jury of their peers to sentence them to whatever is available to them. I support the death penalty as part of the justice system.

If we didn't have a justice system, then we'd clean it up as we saw fit.

EDIT: By the way, the death penalty is not an emotional, irrational lynching by a mob. It is an objective punishment for serious crimes that is handed down by a jury after due process.

 

[Bishka]

That is disgusting, I think they should be put in a prison with other rapists and murderes, and stuck there for the rest of their life. They didn't give the 12-week old baby a chance, so they shouldn't have one.

 

[Buttercup]

What irks me about this sentencing is that some drug charges, robberies, embezzlement and many other non harming crimes receive harsher jail sentences. Seems like if a human being is involved, is permanently harmed during the crime....those crimes should receive the stiffest prison time. Doesn't make sense to me at all. If I was the parent of that kid......I would fight this ridiculous sentencing till the end of time.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What irks me about this sentencing is that some drug charges, robberies, embezzlement and many other non harming crimes receive harsher jail sentences. Seems like if a human being is involved, is permanently harmed during the crime....those crimes should receive the stiffest prison time. Doesn't make sense to me at all. If I was the parent of that kid......I would fight this ridiculous sentencing till the end of time.

No kidding! And a baby at that - in this case, at least. And they took pics!