babysitters who repeatedly raped a 12-week baby may have sentences increased

[PureX]

Maybe you just don't like the word justice used this way...it's just how I look at it.

I just think it's an illusion, is all.

What the victim's families want is vengeance. Justice is not possible because what was taken away can't be restored, and vengeance is all that's left to them. But even if they get their vengeance, it doesn't really do them any good. Nor does it do anyone else any good, either. I actually believe they would hurt less if they would simply face these hard cold facts of life, and forget about justice and vengeance and finding meaning and purpose in a terrible, stupid, senseless, act of violence.

 

[Buttercup]

I actually believe they would hurt less if they would simply face these hard cold facts of life, and forget about justice and vengeance and finding meaning and purpose in a terrible, stupid, senseless, act of violence.

But, therein lies part of the problem of looking at the issue of murder through too objective of eyes....the victim's family doesn't see a purpose in a terrible, stupid act of violence commited against them. What purpose could it have?

 

[PureX]

But, therein lies part of the problem of looking at the issue of murder through too objective of eyes....the victim's family doesn't see a purpose in a terrible, stupid act of violence commited against them. What purpose could it have?

There is none. And punishing the offender won't change that.

Existence is a huge and complex collection of events. There are causes and effects relating all these events to each other, but a cause and an effect do not add up to a purpose. There is no discernible purpose to all these causes and their effects, even when the effects are catastrophic for us. That's just a fact of life, as experience by we ignorant human beings. I think that the sooner we accept this, the better off, and the happier (or at least more at peace), we'll all be.

 

[kreeden]

That's because we're imposing set time spent in prison as a punishment, and the criminl gets out at the end of that sentance regardless of his/her attitude. .

I agree . And in most cases , I believe that removal is the best course of action that we have . Prison combined with counciling would be the best way , IMHO . But what about the cases where that doesn't work ? I suppose that we could keep them locked away until they die . but why ? Why not just put them and us out of their missery ? The cost of keeping them alive ... for what purpose ?

What the victim's families want is vengeance. Justice is not possible because what was taken away can't be restored, and vengeance is all that's left to them. But even if they get their vengeance, it doesn't really do them any good.

Again I agree . But that doesn't justify the cost of keeping these people alive and imprisoned .

In a better world , where we understood human nature better , perhaps their would be a " cure " for people like this . But in the world we live , there is none . So why waste resourses on keeping them alive ? Spend it on children who go hungery or are ill and can be helped .

If you had a forest fire heading your way , you would try to stop it . To save your home or whatever . I very much doubt that you would just stand there and say " That is just life ". What about a rabied animal attacking a child , or any person ?

I just think that there are times to act . And life isn't just accepting , it also is acting .

 

[PureX]

Why not just put them and us out of their missery ? The cost of keeping them alive ... for what purpose ?

It's not our place to decide the value of someone else's joy or misery. And money should never be the deciding factor in the taking of a life.

If you had a forest fire heading your way , you would try to stop it . To save your home or whatever . I very much doubt that you would just stand there and say " That is just life ".

I think you are confusing acceptance with inaction. Accepting that there is no justice or meaning to be found in a senseless violent crime doesn't mean that we don't act to stop the crime from happening. It only means that we let go of our pointless desire for "just revenge".

 

[kreeden]

The problem with this debate Purex is that in today's soceity , we have no answer for these problems . As I see it at least . I agree with what you are saying , to a degree . And perhaps in a better world ...

For excample , removing the danger from soceity is only the first step . Then what ? As it stands , we remove the problem , then forget about it . It doesn't do anything to " cure " the problem . Just a matter of out of sight , out of mind .

Stats show that most of these people will offend again . The courts here in Canada even go as far as labeling them as " likely re-offenders ". And give them a few extra months ...

And I agree that money should never be a factor when it comes to life ... the key word there being " should ". The fact remains that money is a factor in everything in today's society . Money is resourses , and we have limited resourses .

And I agree that revenge should not be the key factor in deciding our actions , any action . However , as I have pointed out , I have no cause in this case for revenge . So revenge isn't a factor as I see it . It is just a matter of the simplest , most effective way to deal with people like this .

And my point about inaction is that if we allow these people back on the street , we are allowing more violence . So in my opinion , capitol punishment may be " the lesser of too evils ".

BTW " putting them out of their missery " is a figure of speech . As you pointed out , I have no idea if they are in missery or bless when they do these things . Perhaps , " putting them out of OUR missery " would be a better term ?

 

[PureX]

The problem with this debate Purex is that in today's soceity , we have no answer for these problems . As I see it at least . I agree with what you are saying , to a degree . And perhaps in a better world ...

For excample , removing the danger from soceity is only the first step . Then what ? As it stands , we remove the problem , then forget about it . It doesn't do anything to " cure " the problem . Just a matter of out of sight , out of mind.

We can't control other people's minds. And that's as it should be. All we can do is control their actions, once it becomes necessary to do so for our collective safety. There are no "answers" except that we are not the rulers of reality. We don't get to decide who deserves to live and who doesn't. We shouldn't even be locking people away for their crimes except that we have to stop their destructive behavior, somehow, and this is the only way we have of doing that. It's up to them whether or not they want to change, and live by the rules. And that's as it should be.

All we can do is try and determine if they are sincere or not. We'll be wrong sometimes. But that's just the way it is.

 

[kreeden]

Again I agree that we should not be " controling " people minds , or actions .

We have very different views of life Purex . To me , violence is a part of life . The very act of eating , even a plant , is an act of violence to that plant . So I accept a degree of violence as being a part of life .

As I said , I see it as the lesser of two evils . It is not a knee jerk reaction any more then your views are . And that is what this debate will try into , a debate over views of life . So I am going to back out of it now .

I guess that I'm just more cold blooded then you . No , we are not the rulers of Reality , although we do make our own .