Bad Conditions Now Compared to Periods in the Past

[David Davidovich]

Part 1

Hello all. As we all know, our political and social conditions in the United States have gotten really dire recently... and especially within the last 6 years after a certain person was electorally college voted into the presidency in 2016. Also, there is strife, problems, and unrest in other parts of the world, including a savage war launched against Ukraine. Therefore, I know that a lot of people have religious beliefs that we are living during the end times, also called the time of the end, and also called the last days, so I wanted to ask the forum: As bad as things are now, are things worse right now in our present day, or have there been other periods during human history that have been just as bad or even worse?

Also, I know that in the first century, Jesus' disciples at one time thought that the end (i.e. Jesus' second coming) may have been coming at that time, according to Acts 1:6:

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”​

Plus, there was thiis discussion between Jesus and his disciples at Matthew 24:3-31:

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

(emphasis is mine)

And I know that some believe that this is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, while some believe that this involves a dual prophecy about both Jerusalem and the end of the world, however, I am only looking for the religious point of view of those who believe that Matthew 24 alsoi ncludes the end of the world. However, of course, any historical and/or non-religious viewpoint is welcomed.

Additionally, I've done a bit of research about the political and social conditions that existed during the Roman Empire in the first century when Jesus' disciples asked the question at Acts 1:6. And the conditions weren't pretty. Also, I could see how those who had 'end time' religious beliefs during that time might have thought or wanted the end to be nigh.

But before I post some quotes from some links about how bad life was during first century Rome, I wanted to also say that I posted this thread in a non-debate forum because I only wanted people to share their point of view, and to agree or disagree with others' point of view. However, I really didn't want anyone to go after each other. Therefore, please share with me what you know about how good or how bad political and social conditions were throughout history.

​

 

[Viker]

Despite the doom and gloom in the news and coming from doomsayers.... things have gotten better overall and universally...and with continued efforts may get better. Civilization is always fickle. There's no guarantee.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The evil democrat-socialists-communists-destroyers-of-the-USconstitution-and-country groups didn’t like it.

I don't, as a policy, take hyper partisanship seriously in a discussion, especially one so informal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Despite the doom and gloom in the news and coming from doomsayers.... things have gotten better overall and universally...and with continued efforts may get better. Civilization is always fickle. There's no guarantee.

That really is true. Hell, we have it so much better overall today that we even had it far better during a pandemic than what our ancestors who say one went through.

 

[Redwing]

I don't, as a policy, take hyper partisanship seriously in a discussion, especially one so informal.

I must ask- why are you telling me? My previous comment wasn’t in response to anything you said.

 

[ChristineM]

I must ask- why are you telling me? My previous comment wasn’t in response to anything you said.

Public thread? Is that a problem?

 

[Redwing]

Public thread? Is that a problem?

Have you problem with my posting?

 

[ChristineM]

Have you problem with my posting?

Absolutely not but you seem to have a problem with the concept of "PUBLIC" which was why i queried your comment that it not what one usually sees on such a friendly forum as RF

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

please share with me what you know about how good or how bad political and social conditions were throughout history.

Apart from the threat of climatological catastrophe, the world has never been better.

Of course, for many Americans, that might not be the case. Conservative Americans are being made miserable by conservative indoctrination media, which has convinced them that they have been cheated, Fauci wants to kill them, and that liberals are Communists that want to eat their babies. That can't be a happy life.

Liberal Americans are unhappy about losing abortion rights, democracy and the rule of law, and their lives and their children's lives to American gun culture, but these are local problems, not world problems.

I'm American, but left the culture over a dozen years ago, which made life more pleasant.

 

[Truth in love]

Apart from the threat of climatological catastrophe, the world has never been better.

Of course, for many Americans, that might not be the case. Conservative Americans are being made miserable by conservative indoctrination media, which has convinced them that they have been cheated, Fauci wants to kill them, and that liberals are Communists that want to eat their babies. That can't be a happy life.

Liberal Americans are unhappy about losing abortion rights, democracy and the rule of law, and their lives and their children's lives to American gun culture, but these are local problems, not world problems.

I'm American, but left the culture over a dozen years ago, which made life more pleasant.

There are people who take things to far. That said we have problems that are a real thereat to there being a nation for our children:
1. Debt
2. Unlawful programs where by your rights are denied you not by some gang member but by the government.
3. Food shortages
4. Politicians who make millions a year under the table.
5. People who riot every time they don’t get their way.
6 no election security.

All of this is a major threat.

 

[Redwing]

Absolutely not but you seem to have a problem with the concept of "PUBLIC" which was why i queried your comment that it not what one usually sees on such a friendly forum as RF

Well, don’t worry about my “concept of PUBLIC” (whatever that means) problem. Worry about “friendly,” since I have had such “friendly” comments directed at me.

 

[nPeace]

Part 1

Hello all. As we all know, our political and social conditions in the United States have gotten really dire recently... and especially within the last 6 years after a certain person was electorally college voted into the presidency in 2016. Also, there is strife, problems, and unrest in other parts of the world, including a savage war launched against Ukraine. Therefore, I know that a lot of people have religious beliefs that we are living during the end times, also called the time of the end, and also called the last days, so I wanted to ask the forum: As bad as things are now, are things worse right now in our present day, or have there been other periods during human history that have been just as bad or even worse?

Also, I know that in the first century, Jesus' disciples at one time thought that the end (i.e. Jesus' second coming) may have been coming at that time, according to Acts 1:6:

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”​

Plus, there was thiis discussion between Jesus and his disciples at Matthew 24:3-31:

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

(emphasis is mine)

And I know that some believe that this is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, while some believe that this involves a dual prophecy about both Jerusalem and the end of the world, however, I am only looking for the religious point of view of those who believe that Matthew 24 alsoi ncludes the end of the world. However, of course, any historical and/or non-religious viewpoint is welcomed.

Additionally, I've done a bit of research about the political and social conditions that existed during the Roman Empire in the first century when Jesus' disciples asked the question at Acts 1:6. And the conditions weren't pretty. Also, I could see how those who had 'end time' religious beliefs during that time might have thought or wanted the end to be nigh.

But before I post some quotes from some links about how bad life was during first century Rome, I wanted to also say that I posted this thread in a non-debate forum because I only wanted people to share their point of view, and to agree or disagree with others' point of view. However, I really didn't want anyone to go after each other. Therefore, please share with me what you know about how good or how bad political and social conditions were throughout history.

​

Hello to you.
There has never ever ever ever been a time when all - a l l - the events foretold, has taken place 1) all at the same time; 2) all with the same measure of increasing intensity; 3) all over the world - universally.
I am closely listening, and waiting with great interest for someone to produce data that proves this not to be 1000% true.

 

[Brickjectivity]

As bad as things are now, are things worse right now in our present day, or have there been other periods during human history that have been just as bad or even worse?

Much worse. For example around 12th century AD the island of Great Britain went through a period so terrible. The king frightened the nobles and destabilized the government. At the same time the king showed weakness, so the nobles felt both threatened and aroused enough to start building castles against the king and each other. They enslaved a large majority of the populace to build castles and dungeons. A very bad century ensued. It was for many the end perhaps of all good things or so it seemed.

It is wise to see bad trouble ahead (by examining the past) and to take steps to avoid bad news. After this came a rebirth of Great Britain. Great changes came as a result and eventually a valuation of individual liberty. The oppression aroused there such an appreciation for liberty that it has eventually rocked the entire world. The knowledge that things can get very bad is good knowledge to have.

Another truth is that no matter how bad things get they can still get worse. There's no bottom to the barrel.

 

[ChristineM]

Well, don’t worry about my “concept of PUBLIC” (whatever that means) problem. Worry about “friendly,” since I have had such “friendly” comments directed at me.

You have? Wow. I see it as aggression but hey ho, that's life.

A "public" thread is a public thread, one open to all members. I am surprised you did not realise that

 

[Brickjectivity]

...which gives new meaning to "Its turtles all the way down." No matter how bad it is, someone has had it worse.

 

[nPeace]

Part 2

Imagine a world in which political norms have broken down. Senators use bad faith arguments to block the government from getting anything done. An autocrat rigs elections and gives himself complete control over the government. Even stranger, many voters subscribe to the autocrat’s personality cult and agree that he should have absolute control.

Welcome to Rome in the first century B.C.E. The republic that had existed for over 400 years had finally hit a crisis it couldn’t overcome. Rome itself wouldn’t fall, but during this period it lost its republic forever.

. . .​

Then, in 133 B.C.E., Rome experienced its first political murder in the history of the republic. Senators were angry that Tiberius Gracchus, an elected official who had tried to redistribute land to the poor, was seeking a second term as tribune of the plebs. During a fight that broke out between Tiberius’s followers and opponents, senators beat him to death with wooden chairs and helped murder nearly 300 of his followers.

Political violence increased in the 80s B.C.E., when political factions started stealing people’s land and killing their enemies. In 44, senators murdered Augustus’ great-uncle Julius Caesar after he unconstitutionally named himself dictator for life.

. . .

As Rome grew, it periodically amended its republic to keep it functioning. However, by the time of Cato the Younger, the republic had functioned so well for so long that a lot of people took its ability to survive for granted. And by the time Augustus took power, most people didn’t remember a time before political violence, land theft and government dysfunction were the norm.​

click here: How Rome Destroyed Its Own Republic - HISTORY

Violence as entertainment

Probably the most famous aspect of Rome’s gruesome history are the events that took place in the Circus Maximus and later in the Colosseum. Emperors built these grand stadiums to entertain the masses and keep them happy and the most popular forms of entertainment were undeniably gory.

Chariot races were one of the most popular forms of entertainment in Roman times, but they were notoriously dangerous, which added to the excitement for the crowds. Gladiatorial battles were also a big draw for audiences. Thousands of spectators would pile into the stadiums to catch a glimpse of two gladiators compete in an epic, violent battle that normally ended in death.

Romans also involved animals in the brutality, with exotic animals such as lions, tigers, and elephants being brought into the amphitheatre to either face each other or a human competitor.

. . .

Developers of hygiene?

The ancient Romans are famous for developing aqueducts, baths, sewage systems and toilets, but with this technology in its infancy, the life of the citizens of Rome was far from hygienic. The sewage systems, unlike today’s, were not made to remove excrement from the streets – their main purpose was to drain water. This meant that the streets were basically a toilet, filled with parasites and disease, but the Romans were so used to it they probably didn’t see it as a problem!

Urine also had multiple uses in ancient Rome. Citizens used it to clean clothes, whiten their teeth, and to grow juicier pomegranates. And if that hasn’t shocked you, then their use of faeces as fertiliser might. Even though we use animal faeces as fertiliser today, the human excrement used by the Romans could have been so filled with disease that it spread to the plants. Not nice.

Toilets were widely developed and used during the Roman times, which you may think was a great move, however the conditions were less than hygienic. Not only did people share a cleaning sponge but the toilets could become so filled with methane that they eventually exploded!​

click here: A Gruesome History of Rome (romecitytour.it)

And last but not least:

If You Were Poor, You Lived in a High Rise

Most Romans lived in tall (up to 100 feet), rectangular apartment buildings called insula, meaning "island." Rome was crammed with these buildings, which were spaced very closely together, creating a labyrinth-esque network of narrow alleys.

These buildings were built so close together that one man wrote that he and the man in the apartment across from him could stretch their arms out and shake hands from their windows. And unlike today, the worst apartments were on the top floor, where it was darker, more cramped, and less safe. If the building burned, you'd need to haul it down those stairs. Richer citizens lived on the bottom floors.

There was no running water or sanitation in the insulae. Poorer folk had to rent apartments with several other roommates, who were day laborers, so the places stunk. It also was not uncommon to hear the agony of childbirth if your neighbor was a pregnant woman, as women gave birth at home in Rome.

And the buildings were cheap, so the insulation was terrible.

. . .

The Streets Were Also Dangerous Because of All the Thugs. And Emperor Nero

When the sun set, Roman streets were shrouded in shadows and frequented by dangerous people.

"Most Romans simply tried to avoid crime by not going at night, when thieves haunted the unlit streets," says Ryan.

A person who chose to brave the streets for a game of dice and a pint may even have had the misfortune of bumping into Emperor Nero. According to the historian Suetonius, Nero would disguise himself with a hat or a wig and attack men "coming home from supper" and beat them up. If they put up a fight, he would "wound them, and throw them in the common sewer."

Nero would break into shops and pilfer their contents, then sell them from his house. He finally stopped going out into the streets after he took a severe beating from a senator, who put the disguised emperor in his place after Nero groped his wife.

There Were No Police

"Marc Antony's Oration at Caesar's Funeral" by George Edward Robertson, 1864.George Edward Robertson/Wikipedia
Part of the crime problem in ancient Rome was due to the fact that the Romans had no real police force. While there were paramilitary forces on the street level, their duty was to keep mobs in check and quell possible uprisings.

The Vigiles, Rome's firemen, doubled as night watchmen and were supposed to enforce some semblance of policing, but they were either too few or too ineffective to be considered an actual force.

Of course, if you were rich, you were fine.

"Important men sometimes traveled with bands of armed slaves, or even with hired gladiators," says Ryan.

For the common folk, it came down to people policing themselves. And it could work. Ryan notes that even though there was crime and no police, Roman society "was less lawless than this might suggest, since the face-to-face nature of social interactions in Roman neighborhoods helped to build local solidarity."

Yet if something terrible happened to you and a loved one, you were on your own.

. . .

Some Death Sentences Were Brutal

While crucifixion was considered "the ultimate punishment" (summum supplicium), there was another curious and dreadful fate that awaited the most serious of offenders: poena cullei, or "punishment of the sack."

A person sentenced to the sack had their arms and feet bound and shoved in a leather sack. And then came the animals: a dog, a monkey, a snake and a rooster, all together. The sack was then tied shut as the animals bit and clawed at one another, and then the sack was thrown into a body of water.

This execution appeared to have been reserved for parricide. So if you lived in ancient Rome, you really would not want to kill a relative. ​

click here: What Life in Ancient Rome Was Really Like | Work + Money (workandmoney.com)

That's the significant difference there.
The prophecies regarding the last days of this system is a composite sign.
All parts make the whole.
Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

 

[nPeace]

Despite the doom and gloom in the news and coming from doomsayers.... things have gotten better overall and universally...and with continued efforts may get better. Civilization is always fickle. There's no guarantee.

I have heard this from people, but it seems to be said by people who are either focused on material prosperity, rather than spiritual prosperity, or they are just thinking that way because they are a part of the culture where changing attitudes are the norm. So they can't see the difference.

However, for those familiar with attitudes of the past, there is a clear difference.
Though there are many ways to see it, there is one most people can relate to - music.
How many songs do we hear which highlight the fact that love is lacking, and needs reviving? How many people lament on the fact that love has grown cold - Meism, selfishness, and greed are the order of the day... even in youth. Not to mention the vast number of juveniles willing to murder their own parents... and the list goes on.

Many realize, this world is out of control, and a significant turn of events spun off of the era of 1914.
Matthew 24:13; 2 Timothy 3:1-5

 

[rational experiences]

Men know when a determined end is exacted then it is or was.

So such statements energy exists as an end as I can't discuss its type without its presence is true.

Jesus ended by death. And also as heavenly spirit changes. Witnessed. Image of New man's life seen in heavens clouds joining the sacrificed man father of the past human science causes old and new.

Any prophecy was experienced. Any earth attack one of as ended events.

Predictive science of man claim 2012 would end nuclear caused long count attack.

UFO atmospheric voiding of gas burning extra was going to be removed.

Didn't occur the 2012 end as men of science reniged on a human promise to never name gods earth products ever again. Or perform converting mass.

He did. Then began removing new amounts of mass. Forming holes inside his machines reactions and not on gods earth body.

Yet machine number two. Collider experiments did open new sink holes outside the machines reaction.

Hence the end 2012 as a holy event didn't occur. We were given back the end of life instead. Early age human death. Life of pain and sacrifice.

As 2012 was life bio genesis predicted by human science as the time for healing.

Hence the long count Mayan and Moses science had removed.

There isn't any other prediction.

As a nuclear model is only human choice and human controlled.

We were taught ice is the saviour body mass of god that keeps our heavens gas spirit present by water cooling and gas cooling.

It's melting. So we will inherit new causes.

The cross is associated to the holy four bodies also. The sea of the son.

Seasons. Owned by gods earth saviour control ice. It's body mass and its end of year return remass.

So we notice seasons don't respond as they once had. As warning signs water mass has shifted.

In some areas we inherit droughts. In others non stop flooding attacks. As warning signs.

We begin to be hit by ice rocks O. Large iced balls. Warning signs. As the saviour body is being sacrificed. Ice.

The sign of man's science deceit O his calculus. O the nuclear clock. Shifting.

As nuclear on earth in gods form is the dust.

The presence of the mass of dust owned why man's image existed in the heavens.

Now we see aliens. Warning signs.

Just a small review of causes. As when you inherit the large bodies it's living in the I told you so too late moment.

We were already science taught about earths large body attacks. So there is no excuse.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Despite the doom and gloom in the news and coming from doomsayers.... things have gotten better overall and universally...and with continued efforts may get better. Civilization is always fickle. There's no guarantee.

Yea. I agree the situation is pretty good in comparison to the past. It only looks bad because the media likes to report things in quantity so people think it hapoens frequently and relentlessly.

A lot don't think or analyze either. Higher populations have higher crime rates so it looks like it's rampant when all one has to do is look at metrics and per capita for an accurate picture that isn't embellished and sensationalized by profit drivin media.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Apart from the threat of climatological catastrophe, the world has never been better.

Of course, for many Americans, that might not be the case. Conservative Americans are being made miserable by conservative indoctrination media, which has convinced them that they have been cheated, Fauci wants to kill them, and that liberals are Communists that want to eat their babies. That can't be a happy life.

Liberal Americans are unhappy about losing abortion rights, democracy and the rule of law, and their lives and their children's lives to American gun culture, but these are local problems, not world problems.

I'm American, but left the culture over a dozen years ago, which made life more pleasant.

There are people who take things to far. That said we have problems that are a real thereat to there being a nation for our children:
1. Debt
2. Unlawful programs where by your rights are denied you not by some gang member but by the government.
3. Food shortages
4. Politicians who make millions a year under the table.
5. People who riot every time they don’t get their way.
6 no election security.

All of this is a major threat.

Yes that is a threat, but principally to those participating in American life. That was kind of my point when I mentioned expatriation. Those don't have to be one's problems if he has the option to leave.

I lost faith in America about 20 years ago, following 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. I recognized that it and I were parting ways, and that it no longer represented my values. I could see that the problems wouldn't be fixed, but rather, would continue to deteriorate for the rest of my life (I was in my late forties then). I could see that the government no longer was interested in the needs of ordinary citizens, that a class war had been waged and won by the future billionaires before anybody knew what was happening. I had suffered something similar professionally, when HMOs were formed, which asked me to be an advocate for the insurer rather than the patient and paid me less to accept more liability as I lost control of managing my patients. This was done for the insurance industry, not doctors or patients, just as the Medicare part D decision to forbid competitive drug pricing was a gift to the pharmaceutical industry on the backs of citizens. Eventually, one realizes that this is not his country any longer, that's its government is not there for him, that the preface to the Constitution had become lip service as the government essentially pursued the opposite. Pledging allegiance to that is approaching Stockholm syndrome.

So, I seceded from America. Now, most of what you listed is much less of a problem. The Supreme Court, mass shootings, rampant racism, unbridled selfishness, nonstop fear and anger in the air - it all went away when I did. Life is simpler, beautiful, and happier again.

A couple we know living here in Mexico with us just visited family in Georgia and Florida, and he reported to me last week how psychologically oppressive it was to be there even for a week, and how happy he was to be back to a happier place. It's like being in a room with a bad smell or an annoying repetitive sound that you stopped being fully aware of until you walked out of the room and came back in. We all come here wound tight from that food fight, and it takes a few years away to decompress fully. I haven't visited the States since my mother passed away in 2012, and that was an unpleasant experience at the airport with insolent and arrogant TSA agent creating my last memory of American life.

Another big bonus is that we don't have to contend with the extreme weather that threatens most of America, which you left off your list of threats, perhaps the biggest one. I understand that drought has now found its way into northern Baja California, which if you don't know, is the Mexican peninsula below San Diego. I have friends that moved from our part of Mexico, which enjoys some of the best weather in the world, to Punta Banda near Escondito, who report that water needs to be trucked in now due to drought. Heat deaths and wildfires may not be too far off. But this defines the western US, just as tornadoes define the Midwest and hurricanes the Gulf Coast and eastern seaboard, and blizzards in New England.

A threat that I think many people are overlooking is a dramatic and permanent reduction of the value of their property. Most people living in these troubled areas don't seem to realize that this is only the beginning for them. That became apparent to me when I saw a man on TV whose home in Paradise CA had burned down in a wildfire in 2018, he rebuilt, and the second house burned down in a second fire 2-3 years later. This guy announced that he was moving. His neighbors should be doing the same before everybody figures out that this is an undesirable part of the country to live in now and real estate values change to reflect that awareness. Do you really want to live on the Gulf Coast for the next 20 years or beyond? It's like a hurricane shooting gallery there, and is expected to get worse.

Last one out is a rotten egg. They're already raising financial the requirements to live full-time here. It wasn't nearly this high when we expatriated in 2009: "Permanent Residency: Monthly income of c.US $4,300-$4500 over the last 6 months (some consulates request 12 months); or savings balance of c.US $180,000 over the last 12 months."

Worry about “friendly,” since I have had such “friendly” comments directed at me.

You came on to the thread with both barrels blasting, and now lament the lack of kindness you are seeing. You reap what you sow.

You and the rest of the Maga community are a large part of why I left. When I did, it was just after the Bush era, the days of Gingrich and Falwell, of Rove and Cheney, of Limbaugh and Hannity - not full-blown Maga yet. That was plenty ugly even then, before the rise of white nationalism and white supremacy, of Karens and antivaxxers, of rednecks in Wal-Mart carrying assault rifles, and of Gilead.