Bad Conditions Now Compared to Periods in the Past

[Truth in love]

You know I was not really bad at Spanish and a few rights were well protected in law I'd be really tempted to head for Mexico. Not the bored areas, but about 2/3rds of the was down and near a cost.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Despite the doom and gloom in the news and coming from doomsayers.... things have gotten better overall and universally...and with continued efforts may get better. Civilization is always fickle. There's no guarantee.

I'd like to think that people's mindsets are getting more equitable, but those who don't agree and are impatient to implement their own rules are ruining things by enacting ridiculous laws.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yea. I agree the situation is pretty good in comparison to the past. It only looks bad because the media likes to report things in quantity so people think it hapoens frequently and relentlessly.

A lot don't think or analyze either. Higher populations have higher crime rates so it looks like it's rampant when all one has to do is look at metrics and per capita for an accurate picture that isn't embellished and sensationalized by profit drivin media.

I wish manufacturing and educational opportunities would return to the small towns, so that the younger folks that are leaving could remain and they would do well. People are flocking to cities and it's just getting worse.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I wish manufacturing and educational opportunities would return to the small towns, so that the younger folks that are leaving could remain and they would do well. People are flocking to cities and it's just getting worse.

Too bad industries like the steel mills left with jobs that just by having one alone, could support an entire family and have a lifetime employer paid pension.

Now it's just service sector jobs and industries run by profit and summarily discarded by ceos who pay a pittance and closes plants, leaving derelict husks in its wake after running them to the ground after hoarding all the possible profits to pay for the golden parachutes when they leave with countless millions and millions of dollars in their pockets, just to do the same thing all over again to other companies to be once again, raped and pillaged of its money and good will.

That's why working people have nothing good anymore in that regard.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I must ask- why are you telling me? My previous comment wasn’t in response to anything you said.

Because it is a public forum and not private or one on one.
What I did is called "calling someone out." I did this over your obviously hyper partisan views that erroneously mischaracterize Democrats.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't, as a policy, take hyper partisanship seriously in a discussion, especially one so informal.

Not to mention walls and walls of text with useless religious information.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not to mention walls and walls of text with useless religious information.

I'd tread carefully there since you have a well established history of doing much the same (hyper partisanship).

 

[David Davidovich]

Despite the doom and gloom in the news and coming from doomsayers.... things have gotten better overall and universally...and with continued efforts may get better. Civilization is always fickle. There's no guarantee.

That's kind of what I was thinking after delving into the history of how things were in the first century in the Roman Empire. Everything was very, very bleak back then. Including problems with crime, hygiene, housing, policing. capitol punishment, etc.

 

[David Davidovich]

Have you problem with my posting?

I do and I reported it and I'm trying to get it out of my thread... Go away!

 

[David Davidovich]

Apart from the threat of climatological catastrophe, the world has never been better.

Sigh! That is a good point. Sad, but a good point.

Of course, for many Americans, that might not be the case. Conservative Americans are being made miserable by conservative indoctrination media, which has convinced them that they have been cheated, Fauci wants to kill them, and that liberals are Communists that want to eat their babies. That can't be a happy life.

Thank you for that.

Liberal Americans are unhappy about losing abortion rights, democracy and the rule of law, and their lives and their children's lives to American gun culture, but these are local problems, not world problems.

Sad, but true.

I'm American, but left the culture over a dozen years ago, which made life more pleasant.

I'm curious. What do you mean by "left the culture"?

 

[David Davidovich]

There are people who take things to far. That said we have problems that are a real thereat to there being a nation for our children:
1. Debt
2. Unlawful programs where by your rights are denied you not by some gang member but by the government.
3. Food shortages
4. Politicians who make millions a year under the table.
5. People who riot every time they don’t get their way.
6 no election security.

All of this is a major threat.

Great points.

 

[David Davidovich]

Hello to you.
There has never ever ever ever been a time when all - a l l - the events foretold, has taken place 1) all at the same time; 2) all with the same measure of increasing intensity; 3) all over the world - universally.
I am closely listening, and waiting with great interest for someone to produce data that proves this not to be 1000% true.

Thanks for that, nPeace. However, there are a lot of end-time religions who think differently where they seem to have it all mapped out.

 

[David Davidovich]

Much worse. For example around 12th century AD the island of Great Britain went through a period so terrible. The king frightened the nobles and destabilized the government. At the same time the king showed weakness, so the nobles felt both threatened and aroused enough to start building castles against the king and each other. They enslaved a large majority of the populace to build castles and dungeons. A very bad century ensued. It was for many the end perhaps of all good things or so it seemed.

It is wise to see bad trouble ahead (by examining the past) and to take steps to avoid bad news. After this came a rebirth of Great Britain. Great changes came as a result and eventually a valuation of individual liberty. The oppression aroused there such an appreciation for liberty that it has eventually rocked the entire world. The knowledge that things can get very bad is good knowledge to have.

Another truth is that no matter how bad things get they can still get worse. There's no bottom to the barrel.

Thanks so much for that, Brickjectivity.

 

[David Davidovich]

That's the significant difference there.
The prophecies regarding the last days of this system is a composite sign.
All parts make the whole.
Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Because it sounds like you are contradicting your previous post. Could you elaborate please?

 

[David Davidovich]

I have heard this from people, but it seems to be said by people who are either focused on material prosperity, rather than spiritual prosperity, or they are just thinking that way because they are a part of the culture where changing attitudes are the norm. So they can't see the difference.

However, for those familiar with attitudes of the past, there is a clear difference.
Though there are many ways to see it, there is one most people can relate to - music.
How many songs do we hear which highlight the fact that love is lacking, and needs reviving? How many people lament on the fact that love has grown cold - Meism, selfishness, and greed are the order of the day... even in youth. Not to mention the vast number of juveniles willing to murder their own parents... and the list goes on.

Many realize, this world is out of control, and a significant turn of events spun off of the era of 1914.
Matthew 24:13; 2 Timothy 3:1-5

I don't know if you read Brickjectivity's post #15 but what about that example?

 

[David Davidovich]

Yea. I agree the situation is pretty good in comparison to the past. It only looks bad because the media likes to report things in quantity so people think it hapoens frequently and relentlessly.

I had forgotten about that. Thank you for bringing that up, Twilight Hue. So yes, the ancients never had the amount of informational bombardment about the problems and situations that were going on in the world back then as we do.

A lot don't think or analyze either. Higher populations have higher crime rates so it looks like it's rampant when all one has to do is look at metrics and per capita for an accurate picture that isn't embellished and sensationalized by profit drivin media.

Excellent, excellent point.

 

[nPeace]

Thanks for that, nPeace. However, there are a lot of end-time religions who think differently where they seem to have it all mapped out.

When you say think differently, you are probably referring to particular end-time prophecies, and what their meaning is - such as those recorded in Daniel and Revelation.
However, what different religious people think on how particular end-time prophecies are fulfilled, doesn't alter the fact that they are end-time prophecies, and they are indicated to have begun to be fulfilled with current events, of which they all agree.
Do you know of any "end-time religions" that think differently on Luke 21:10-11?
Can you list them for me please. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Because it sounds like you are contradicting your previous post. Could you elaborate please?

What I said here, compliments my previous post.

Post #1
There has never ever ever ever been a time when all - a l l - the events foretold, has taken place 1) all at the same time; 2) all with the same measure of increasing intensity; 3) all over the world - universally.
I am closely listening, and waiting with great interest for someone to produce data that proves this not to be 1000% true.

Post #2
That's the significant difference there.
The prophecies regarding the last days of this system is a composite sign.
All parts make the whole.
Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

Can you elaborate on how one contradicts the other? Thanks.
Perhaps you are thinking of the last sentence, but the last clause says that Matthew 24:14 is not absent in Rome Today.
Is that what you meant?

I don't know if you read Brickjectivity's post #15 but what about that example?

There's nothing there that I can see, which changes or invalidates what I would have said, since the prophecies are not about how bad statistics of one event is, as compared with another.
For example, say we had an earthquake 3000 years ago, that killed 8,000,000 people. That doesn't mean there aren't 1) more earthquakes with 2) more intensity, 3) occurring all over the world - universally... at the same time (period), than 3,000 years ago.

Those three points are key.
The other factors, like the fact that people did not have properly built structures (which they probably did 3,000 years ago), or they dwelt in mountainous regions, or unstable terrain, or they were all gathered in the same general location... etc, so that an earthquake of 4.8 magnitude took many lives, does not deny those three key points, which makes the significant difference.

If it were about the statistics of one event compared to another, we would have a case of one person looking at the number of death, and the other looking at the rate of magnitude.
So one person would say, it was worst because 8,000000 persons died, even though the magnitude was 4.8, and the other person would be arguing that it was worst because the magnitude was far greater - 7.0 - even though very few died, if any at all.
It's not about that. That's not key.

You understand what I'm saying? I hope.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What do you mean by "left the culture"?

I meant that I moved out of the States.

 

[Clara Tea]

BAD CONDITIONS NOW, COMPARED TO PERIODS OF THE PAST:

Part 1

Hello all. As we all know, our political and social conditions in the United States have gotten really dire recently... and especially within the last 6 years after a certain person [Donald Trump] was electorally college voted into the presidency in 2016. Also, there is strife, problems, and unrest in other parts of the world, including a savage war launched against Ukraine. Therefore, I know that a lot of people have religious beliefs that we are living during the end times, also called the time of the end, and also called the last days, so I wanted to ask the forum: As bad as things are now, are things worse right now in our present day, or have there been other periods during human history that have been just as bad or even worse?

Also, I know that in the first century, Jesus' disciples at one time thought that the end (i.e. Jesus' second coming) may have been coming at that time, according to Acts 1:6:

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”​

Plus, there was thiis discussion between Jesus and his disciples at Matthew 24:3-31:

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

(emphasis is mine)

And I know that some believe that this is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, while some believe that this involves a dual prophecy about both Jerusalem and the end of the world, however, I am only looking for the religious point of view of those who believe that Matthew 24 alsoi ncludes the end of the world. However, of course, any historical and/or non-religious viewpoint is welcomed.

Additionally, I've done a bit of research about the political and social conditions that existed during the Roman Empire in the first century when Jesus' disciples asked the question at Acts 1:6. And the conditions weren't pretty. Also, I could see how those who had 'end time' religious beliefs during that time might have thought or wanted the end to be nigh.

But before I post some quotes from some links about how bad life was during first century Rome, I wanted to also say that I posted this thread in a non-debate forum because I only wanted people to share their point of view, and to agree or disagree with others' point of view. However, I really didn't want anyone to go after each other. Therefore, please share with me what you know about how good or how bad political and social conditions were throughout history.

END TIMES:

You ask....is destroying the world worse than past problems? Yes. . . yes, I think so. Destroying the world means that we will have no world and have no people. So, yes....yes, I think so. It seems like a no-brainer.

God will destroy the world because President W. Bush attacked Iraq in defiance of God's commandment in Revelation (a chapter of the bible) and in defiance of God's commandent not to kill. W. Bush is called the beast in the bible, and the United States is called the Whore of Babylon (according to Revelation 17:18. W. Bush defied God's commandment not to bear false witness when he lied us into wars with Afghanistan and Iraq, and tried to lie us into a war with Niger (but Wilson refused to lie, so they outed his CIA wife, Valery Plame).

Revelation is a package deal. If you support the one who attacks Iraq, that same president will cause environmental destruction (floods, famines, hurricanes, debt, lack of trade, disease, pestilence, etc).

TRUMP:

President Donald Trump insisted on paying larger payments while covid kept people out of work. He lowered insulin (and other pill) cost. He tried to bring jobs back to America after W. Bush let them outsource to foreign nations for cheap labor and cheap material (and defective manufacturing). W. Bush's tax reductions for the super-wealthy didn't trickle down to the working middle class, but many became poor (there is no middle class now). With the tax reduction, companies were able to build state of the art factories abroad, and now the US can't compete.

Trump signed the papers to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Trump, I believe, ended the wars to save money (not for humanitarian reasons). Russia's attack of the Ukraine was not Trump's fault. Many former Soviet states joined NATO (surrounding Russia by potential enemies, in much the same way that nukes were too close to the US border during JFK's Bay of Pigs Cuban Missile Crisis. Putin complained that Russian citizens were being killed in the Ukraine by the national football team and Ukrainians dressed as Nazis. So, Putin had some justification for taking back the former Soviet state (Ukraine).

The wars actually ended during the Biden administration, and Trump objected to leaving behind so much military hardware that could be reused, or reverse engineered, or sold.

We can't blame Trump for covid (China let it out). Trump did everything that he could do to stop the spread of covid, including shutting the borders.

Nero fiddled as Rome burned, and W. Bush fiddled around as hurricane Katrina victims languished and died.

During W. Bush's tenure, we lost the right to sue (alleged frivolous suits against HMOs), which is an unalienable right. We lost a great deal of free speech and free press. Snowden pointed out that the W. Bush administration illegally tapped American's telephones. W. Bush got the CIA to rewrite Wikipedia articles, so now it says that W. Bush "handled complaints" about torture camps. Couldn't holocaust deniers say the same thing about Nazi torture camps?

You seem to be saying that there have been many times in history when people thought that the end of the world was here. But this time, it really is here.

 

[Clara Tea]

When you say think differently, you are probably referring to particular end-time prophecies, and what their meaning is - such as those recorded in Daniel and Revelation.
However, what different religious people think on how particular end-time prophecies are fulfilled, doesn't alter the fact that they are end-time prophecies, and they are indicated to have begun to be fulfilled with current events, of which they all agree.
Do you know of any "end-time religions" that think differently on Luke 21:10-11?
Can you list them for me please. Thanks.


What I said here, compliments my previous post.

Post #1
There has never ever ever ever been a time when all - a l l - the events foretold, has taken place 1) all at the same time; 2) all with the same measure of increasing intensity; 3) all over the world - universally.
I am closely listening, and waiting with great interest for someone to produce data that proves this not to be 1000% true.

Post #2
That's the significant difference there.
The prophecies regarding the last days of this system is a composite sign.
All parts make the whole.
Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

Can you elaborate on how one contradicts the other? Thanks.
Perhaps you are thinking of the last sentence, but the last clause says that Matthew 24:14 is not absent in Rome Today.
Is that what you meant?


There's nothing there that I can see, which changes or invalidates what I would have said, since the prophecies are not about how bad statistics of one event is, as compared with another.
For example, say we had an earthquake 3000 years ago, that killed 8,000,000 people. That doesn't mean there aren't 1) more earthquakes with 2) more intensity, 3) occurring all over the world - universally... at the same time (period), than 3,000 years ago.

Those three points are key.
The other factors, like the fact that people did not have properly built structures (which they probably did 3,000 years ago), or they dwelt in mountainous regions, or unstable terrain, or they were all gathered in the same general location... etc, so that an earthquake of 4.8 magnitude took many lives, does not deny those three key points, which makes the significant difference.

If it were about the statistics of one event compared to another, we would have a case of one person looking at the number of death, and the other looking at the rate of magnitude.
So one person would say, it was worst because 8,000,000 persons died, even though the magnitude was 4.8, and the other person would be arguing that it was worst because the magnitude was far greater - 7.0 - even though very few died, if any at all.
It's not about that. That's not key.

You understand what I'm saying? I hope.

Website for 3,000 year old quake that killed 8 million?

Scientists find evidence for biggest earthquake in human history

9.5 magnitude Chile quake and 66 foot tsunami. (Chili causes upset tummies).