Baha'i and Islamic concepts of Prophets - Similar or irreconcilably different?

[rational experiences]

Human brother or sister is in life is a spiritual need status. Equal. Human

One origin equal named accountability human first.

First spirituality without title.

The teaching separation of family in O one God teachings. One. State statement human language changed. DNA left its equal status. Land separated. Language also separated.

Our teaching humanity.

Agreement spirituality.

Agreement.separation of our human life caused by the one.

And all problems that ensued.

As not a believer of using land title or state law in variable human lived experiences. I can look at both human religious beliefs and say quite spiritually similar.

Purpose to be spiritual to gain mutual human equality. Human is one first.
By proximity of living placement.

And wonder why the notified one O earth God caused teaching is not being used to identify our taught human message.

Similar yet one caused all differences.

 

[shunyadragon]

Can you cite the verse that says that?

This is a belief of Islam that Muhammad restores the religion of Abraham and is a continuation of his religion. I am not sure of quotes, but this is a belief of Islam.

Abraham in Islam - Wikipedia).

The Quran mentions that Abraham and Ishmael were the reformers who set up the Ka'bah in Mecca as a center of pilgrimage for monotheism The Quran consistently refers to Islam as "the Religion of Abraham" (millat Ibrahim) and Abraham is given a title as Hanif (The Pure, "true in Faith" or "upright man").

 

[Trailblazer]

This is a belief of Islam that Muhammad restores the religion of Abraham and is a continuation of his religion. I am not sure of quotes, but us a belief of Islam.

Abraham in Islam - Wikipedia).

The Quran mentions that Abraham and Ishmael were the reformers who set up the Ka'bah in Mecca as a center of pilgrimage for monotheism The Quran consistently refers to Islam as "the Religion of Abraham" (millat Ibrahim) and Abraham is given a title as Hanif (The Pure, "true in Faith" or "upright man").

Interesting, this is not unlike what Baha'u'llah write about renewing religion and being a continuation of religion.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

 

[Trailblazer]

Is the concept of Prophethood in the Baha'i Faith compatible with that in Islam? Are the concepts of Prophethood within the two religions so fundamentally different as to irreconcilable?

Yes, if one puts their ego aside.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, I have read the quotes myself.

The Bible does not have the stories and names of every single Messenger of God.
It was not meant to have all Messengers described and it is not its purpose.

The Bahai belief is, the Quran and Bahai scriptures are revelations from God, so, this is how Abdulbaha or the Bab knew there were two different Davids. The first David was a Messenger.

But you can't post it here or give a link to where it can be found? And, when you say, "messenger" do you mean as in being a "manifestation"?

 

[CG Didymus]

I would also like to know the answer to these questions but I am not as proficient in the Baha'i Writings as
@ adrian009 and @ InvestigateTruth .

All I can say is that Baha'u'llah considered David a Messenger of God and a Manifestation of God, according to the Kitab-i-Iqan.

“None of the many Prophets sent down, since Moses was made manifest, as Messengers of the Word of God, such as David, Jesus, and others among the more exalted Manifestations who have appeared during the intervening period between the Revelations of Moses and Muḥammad, ever altered the law of the Qiblih. These Messengers of the Lord of creation have, one and all, directed their peoples to turn unto the same direction. In the eyes of God, the ideal King, all the places of the earth are one and the same, excepting that place which, in the days of His Manifestations, He doth appoint for a particular purpose.“ The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 51

But that kind of messes up the belief that there were the only nine Manifestations of God:
Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

So someone is wrong, and I do not think it was Baha'u'llah, I think it is the Baha'is, also because Baha'u'llah wrote that Noah was a Prophet who arose to proclaim His Cause, which would make Him the kind of Prophet who was also a Messenger of God and a Manifestation of God.

“For instance, consider that among the Prophets was Noah. When He was invested with the robe of Prophethood, and was moved by the Spirit of God to arise and proclaim His Cause, whoever believed in Him and acknowledged His Faith, was endowed with the grace of a new life. Of him it could be truly said that he was reborn and revived, inasmuch as previous to his belief in God and his acceptance of His Manifestation, he had set his affections on the things of the world, such as attachment to earthly goods, to wife, children, food, drink, and the like, so much so that in the day-time and in the night season his one concern had been to amass riches and procure for himself the means of enjoyment and pleasure.” 28” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 154-155

Yes, but King David is the one that came between Moses and Muhammad. InvestigateTruth has this other David coming before Moses. And, if it is King David then it is another case of an imperfect person being a manifestation. But really, I see no reason to make King David or any other David a manifestation. Judaism has enough of them along with a whole bunch of regular prophets. Oh, and King David had a prophet telling him things. Why would a manifestation need that?

 

[CG Didymus]

Interesting, this is not unlike what Baha'u'llah write about renewing religion and being a continuation of religion.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

So then... do Baha'is believe some of the stories in Genesis? 'Cause I would imagine there is a whole bunch of the stories in Genesis that Baha'is don't believe... literally I mean. You know... things like the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, the Nephilim and things of that sort? But, you do believe everything and more about Abraham? Like there was such a thing that people followed and believed in called the "religion" of Abraham? To me it sure seems like it is just the traditions passed down about the origins of Judaism.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, but King David is the one that came between Moses and Muhammad. InvestigateTruth has this other David coming before Moses. And, if it is King David then it is another case of an imperfect person being a manifestation. But really, I see no reason to make King David or any other David a manifestation. Judaism has enough of them along with a whole bunch of regular prophets. Oh, and King David had a prophet telling him things. Why would a manifestation need that?

Before Moses, where did he get that idea?
As far as who is imperfect that has to be qualified. What does that mean and who decides anyone is perfect?
Nobody makes anyone into a Manifestation, they either were or they weren't one.
I do not believe that King David was a Manifestation of God so it must be another David that Baha'u'llah was referring to...
And the plot thickens.

 

[Trailblazer]

So then... do Baha'is believe some of the stories in Genesis? 'Cause I would imagine there is a whole bunch of the stories in Genesis that Baha'is don't believe... literally I mean. You know... things like the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, the Nephilim and things of that sort? But, you do believe everything and more about Abraham? Like there was such a thing that people followed and believed in called the "religion" of Abraham? To me it sure seems like it is just the traditions passed down about the origins of Judaism.

I do not think that Baha'is interpret the stories in Genesis literally but we do believe in Abraham because Baha'u'llah wrote about Abraham, so that is verification that He existed. However, I know nothing of a religion He established. Please note that conclusion below in italics. Baha'u'llah was saying it is a grievous transgression to relate the stories of the days that are past, and that is probably why He did not expound upon Abraham and Moses.

“Among the Prophets was Abraham, the Friend of God. Ere He manifested Himself, Nimrod dreamed a dream. Thereupon, he summoned the soothsayers, who informed him of the rise of a star in the heaven. Likewise, there appeared a herald who announced throughout the land the coming of Abraham.

After Him came Moses, He Who held converse with God. The soothsayers of His time warned Pharaoh in these terms: “A star hath risen in the heaven, and lo! it foreshadoweth the conception of a Child Who holdeth your fate and the fate of your people in His hand.” In like manner, there appeared a sage who, in the darkness of the night, brought tidings of joy unto the people of Israel, imparting consolation to their souls, and assurance to their hearts. To this testify the records of the sacred books. Were the details to be mentioned, this epistle would swell into a book. Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 62-63

 

[Aupmanyav]

May I know who told you this if you dont mind? I am just curious.

That is what I read on internet, check Google or Quora with 'Mursil al-rasul'. You will find the references.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hi Adrian,

I trust you are well.

It is necessary to clarify the use of the word ‘prophet’; an alien word when applied to the Arabic language; and especially so when it is used within the context of Islam. The correct words to use in this context are ‘Nabī’ and ‘Rasūl’.

A Nabī is a man sent by Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) to provide guidance, or give warning, to those who are already under the Law; whereas a Rasūl (‘Messenger’) is charged with delivering the Law in the first place – in the form of scripture (he is also required to provide guidance and give warning, of course). All Rasūl are considered to be Nabī; but not all Nabī were Rasūl.

Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was a Rasūl.

Incidentally, Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) confirms that David was also a Rasūl: ‘We have sent revelation to you (Muhammad) as We did to Noah and the prophets after him, to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon – to David We gave the Scripture (Zabur).’ (Al-Nisa: 163).

Bahá'u'lláh writes: ‘None of the many Prophets sent down, since Moses was made manifest, as Messengers of the Word of God; such as David, Jesus, and others among the more exalted Manifestations who have appeared during the intervening period between the Revelations of Moses and Muhammad……….’ (Kitáb-i-Íqán; Article 55).

Abdu’l-Bahá, on the other hand, contradicts both Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) and Bahá'u'lláh when he states that:

‘The Manifestations of universal Prophethood who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel…………(of) themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets. (Some Answered Questions, p. 164-165).

Baha’is have to decide who to believe: Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) or Abdu’l-Bahá!

Have a great week, and very best regards.

Hi @Niblo ,

Thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts.

First, I agree with your assessment of the Quran where a distinction is made between a Nabi and Rusool.

The one small point where we differ is Baha’is would classify King David in the Tanakh as being a Nabi rather than a Rasool. There are problems exalting King David to the same level as Muhammad, Jesus and Moses. We would consider him as a Prophet like Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Assuming King David authored Psalms, in itself a significant assumption, we would not exalt psalms to the same station as the Torah, Gospel and Quran. Judaism views Moses and the Torah as being pivotal as Christians would view Christ and the Gospel. Where is a religion founded by King David and based on the psalms? Did he not come under the shadow of Moses along with many other Jewish Prophets recorded in the Tanakh?

Bahá’u’lláh (and I believe Muhammad too) refers to an earlier David who revealed a book called the Zabur, now lost in the mists of time.

Otherwise, our views on this matter are the same.

Peace.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I've nothing else to add, but wanted to question.

Isn't a prophet someone who speaks in the name of god (from an imperfect person) and a manifestation someone who is god incarnate/however defined (perfect person)?

For example, Moses would be a prophet as he had flaws but did things god told him but jesus, according to christianity, would be likened to a manifestation or incarnation as his place in major christian text is equal to and/or god himself. I thought manifestation fall into the latter line of thinking?

Hi @Unveiled Artist

Baha’is would view Prophet’s such as Moses, Muhammad, Christ, Krishna and Buddha as having a greater degree of perfection than both ordinary men and prophets such as Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel who have come under the shadow of a Manifestation.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I believe there is only one David.

You may be interested in the Baha’i position of there being two David’s, David in the Tanakh and a David who lived before Moses.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Dawn of a New Day, Pages 86-87

 

[Dawnofhope]

But then, the Quran says that Islam existed since at least Abraham. So you have to confirm if Bahai's believe in the Quran or not.

Islam means submission to God or Allah. In that sense Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam all brought Islam.

That does not mean Muhammad literally appeared before the 7th century reciting the Quran.

How do you differentiate between prophets and messengers? What is a rasool and what is a nabi? This definition and differentiation will be fundamental for your discussion.

Baha’is would make a similar distinction between Nabi and Rasools as the Muslims do. Please see my post to Niblo above.

Thus, is Abdul Baha a Rasool or Nabi? Or is he something else? To be authoritative, he has to be speaking to God or speaking directly to Gods messenger IMHO. But was he eternally speaking to Bahaullah, even after he passed away? If he was still authoritative after he passed, how was he authoritative? He made many claims that was not existing during Bahaullahs time as I understand. Please clarify.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá has a unique distinction and station in religious history. He would be seen as Nabi, not Rasool. He was appointed successor to lead the Baha’i Faith by His Father, Bahá’u’lláh. However, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá did not have the same station as His Father. He was the appointed successor and leader. He is authorised to interpret and elaborate on Bahá’u’lláh’s Teachings. He does not have the authority to repeal or change explicit laws Bahá’u’lláh Revealed.

To do this, I believe you must clarify the above questions. Because the use of words like prophethood without these clarifications are too superficial.

Feel free to ask further questions to clarify and expand on this important topic. It was your previous thread on this topic that led me to start a new one.

One thing I can say is that there is no concept of "manifestation of God" in the Quran. None. Thus, if you believe that being a prophet or a messenger or what ever is a manifestation of God, it is not found in the Quran. This is fact. A rasool is someone who "transmits". Thats it.

The terms Prophet, Messenger and Manifestation are often used interchangeably in the Baha’i writings. Manifestation means to make manifest or bring forth into plain sight that which was previously hidden. Moses having Revealed the Torah, Jesus the Gospel and Muhammad the Quran makes them Manifestations according to Baha’i theology. They each have outstanding qualities in addition to being a bearer of a Divine Revelation that makes them distinct from ordinary men.

Bab claims to be divine. He wrote his "Kayoom ul asma" which is the Bahai proof that the Bab is divine, and Gods manifestation capable enough to meet the challenge of writing a book similar to the Qur'an. He begins with "Man asaara hadharathalalli al barika" showing his reverence to the Shii theology, not the Bahai theology. Nevertheless, the point is that the Quranic injunction is that "La ilaaha illalah". Nothing is divine, other than God. Thus, you have to decide if the Bab, and of course Bahaullah had any divinity, or they were all human. Because, the Quran states very clearly, that "La ilaaha illa huwa". There is no divinity whatsoever. This is the whole concept of the Quran. So this kind of prophet or messenger (will see after you define them) in the Bahai faith are absolutely irreconcilable to the Rasool and Nabi in the Quran.

You would need to provide me with a link to an authorised English translation of the Bab’s Writings you reference.

The Quran speaks of "those who have taken their children as divine". Well, not even your children should be divine in your mind. Not even your wealth. Not even your own havah. "LA ILAAH". No deity. No divinity. Peace.

You would need to quote the Quranic verse in question.

Thanks

 

[firedragon]

That is what I read on internet, check Google or Quora with 'Mursil al-rasul'. You will find the references.

I know what it means brother. But I was just thinking where you got that Bahaullah is this.

 

[firedragon]

Islam means submission to God or Allah. In that sense Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam all brought Islam.

That does not mean Muhammad literally appeared before the 7th century reciting the Quran.

Thats not what you said brother, and that's not what I responded with either. It had nothing to do with the Quran, or that Muhammed appeared earlier. Your statement was that Muhammed brought Islam in the 7th century. You didnt say "Muhammed brought the Quran in the 7th century". What I said was that since you believe in the Quran to be Gods word, it says that even Abrahams time, he said Muslim. Thats Islam at that time as well. Thus, the Quranic theology is that Muhammed did not bring Islam. Thats the whole point.

So this is kind of a strawman.

Baha’is would make a similar distinction between Nabi and Rasools as the Muslims do. Please see my post to Niblo above.

So what do you mean by Prophet and Messenger? Which one is Nabi, and which one is Rasool? (In English)

Feel free to ask further questions to clarify and expand on this important topic. It was your previous thread on this topic that led me to start a new one.

No I respect that.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá has a unique distinction and station in religious history. He would be seen as Nabi, not Rasool. He was appointed successor to lead the Baha’i Faith by His Father, Bahá’u’lláh. However, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá did not have the same station as His Father. He was the appointed successor and leader. He is authorised to interpret and elaborate on Bahá’u’lláh’s Teachings. He does not have the authority to repeal or change explicit laws Bahá’u’lláh Revealed.

Alright. I understand.

You would need to provide me with a link to an authorised English translation of the Bab’s Writings you reference.

Sorry Adrian. I dont have links. But you should have the beginning of Babs book. If you want I can give you a snapshot. I can't give links. A translation is a translation, yet I do understand your whole source is "Bahai Websites". Which I cannot give you links to. You could show the arabic text to someone (if the translation is not already existent in your website).

With that said, you missed this part of my post.

Nevertheless, the point is that the Quranic injunction is that "La ilaaha illalah". Nothing is divine, other than God. Thus, you have to decide if the Bab, and of course Bahaullah had any divinity, or they were all human. Because, the Quran states very clearly, that "La ilaaha illa huwa". There is no divinity whatsoever. This is the whole concept of the Quran. So this kind of prophet or messenger (will see after you define them) in the Bahai faith are absolutely irreconcilable to the Rasool and Nabi in the Quran.

You would need to quote the Quranic verse in question.

Sure.

But when He gave them a healthy child, they associate with Him in what He had given them. God be exalted above what they set up as partners. - Quran 7:190

Quran says clearly not to idolise anyone or anything. Not even your own wishful thinking or ego. Religious leaders and scholars (9:31), money and wealth (18:42), angels, dead saints, messengers and prophets (16:20, 21; 35:14; 46:5, 6; 53:23), and ego/wishful thinking (25:43, 45:23) all can be idolized. Idolisation if you read is making someone ilah. Itthahadha ilaahahoo. Take as "ilah" or "Deity/divinity".

Nothing is divine. No one is divine. Only God is. Thats the whole concept of the Qur'an.

Peace.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I know what it means brother. But I was just thinking where you got that Bahaullah is this.

As perhaps you know, I do not believe in God, soul or prophets. This is what Bahaollah said and his followers believe.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thats not what you said brother, and that's not what I responded with either. It had nothing to do with the Quran, or that Muhammed appeared earlier. Your statement was that Muhammed brought Islam in the 7th century. You didnt say "Muhammed brought the Quran in the 7th century". What I said was that since you believe in the Quran to be Gods word, it says that even Abrahams time, he said Muslim. Thats Islam at that time as well. Thus, the Quranic theology is that Muhammed did not bring Islam. Thats the whole point.

So this is kind of a strawman.

Sure. Islam can be seen as the religion that started with Muhammad and the Quran in the seventh century. That is how most Western scholars would define Islam. Islam can also be seen as being brought by Abraham and all the Prophets. That’s entirely consistent with Baha’i belief.

So what do you mean by Prophet and Messenger? Which one is Nabi, and which one is Rasool? (In English)

Nabi is a Messenger and Rasool is a Prophet. Not all Messengers are Prophets. Examples include Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Examples of Prophets include Jesus, Muhammad and Moses. Prophets reveal the laws. Messengers are under the shadow of the law.

Sorry Adrian. I dont have links. But you should have the beginning of Babs book. If you want I can give you a snapshot. I can't give links. A translation is a translation, yet I do understand your whole source is "Bahai Websites". Which I cannot give you links to. You could show the arabic text to someone (if the translation is not already existent in your

All my Baha’i books are in English. The only one that has solely the writings of the Bab is a compilation of His Works. I don’t have ready access to speakers of Arabic.

With that said, you missed this part of my post.

Nevertheless, the point is that the Quranic injunction is that "La ilaaha illalah". Nothing is divine, other than God. Thus, you have to decide if the Bab, and of course Bahaullah had any divinity, or they were all human. Because, the Quran states very clearly, that "La ilaaha illa huwa". There is no divinity whatsoever. This is the whole concept of the Quran. So this kind of prophet or messenger (will see after you define them) in the Bahai faith are absolutely irreconcilable to the Rasool and Nabi in the Quran.

For Baha’is, the Prophets are like perfect mirrors reflecting the sun. The sun is a metaphor for God. The mirror and sun are distinct from each other as the Creator is seperate from His Creation. Although humans reflect Divine attributes, humans are not gods or God. So for me there is no conflict between the Quran and Baha’i Writings. If you want to see them as irreconcilably contradictory that is your prerogative.

Sure.

But when He gave them a healthy child, they associate with Him in what He had given them. God be exalted above what they set up as partners. - Quran 7:190

Quran says clearly not to idolise anyone or anything. Not even your own wishful thinking or ego. Religious leaders and scholars (9:31), money and wealth (18:42), angels, dead saints, messengers and prophets (16:20, 21; 35:14; 46:5, 6; 53:23), and ego/wishful thinking (25:43, 45:23) all can be idolized. Idolisation if you read is making someone ilah. Itthahadha ilaahahoo. Take as "ilah" or "Deity/divinity".

Nothing is divine. No one is divine. Only God is. Thats the whole concept of the Qur'an.

Peace.

Yet I hear Muslims say PBUH after mentioning the Prophets name. That of course is a sign of respect and reverence. The Quran will occupy a special place in the household.

The problem isn’t that Baha’is see Bahá’u’lláh as God. We don’t, but that is what Muslim apologetics peddle. It doesn’t matter how many times Baha’is spell it out in clear and unambiguous language, Muslims will not accept it. The real problem is that Baha’is revere Bahá’u’lláh and His Writings as Muslims revere Muhammad and the Quran. That is completely unacceptable to Muslims as Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time. Therefore Baha’is are apostates and the Baha’i Faith is an apostate religion. There is no limit to what some Muslims will do to discredit and denigrate the Baha’i Faith. The Baha’i concept of Manifestation of God is the low hanging fruit.

 

[firedragon]

Sure. Islam can be seen as the religion that started with Muhammad and the Quran in the seventh century. That is how most Western scholars would define Islam. Islam can also be seen as being brought by Abraham and all the Prophets. That’s entirely consistent with Baha’i belief.

I know its consistent with the Bahai theology. Western scholars view on a naturalistic Muhammed and Quran and Islam is not relevant to the discussion because the Bahai's believe the Quran is Gods word, unless you are referring to western scholars who do too.

I addressed your statement. So please accept or decline based on your personal statement that I addressed.

Nabi is a Messenger and Rasool is a Prophet. Not all Messengers are Prophets. Examples include Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Examples of Prophets include Jesus, Muhammad and Moses. Prophets reveal the laws. Messengers are under the shadow of the law.

Alright. So now that you have clarified Rasool is a prophet in your words, the Quran says "we do not make any distinction between any of his rasools".

All my Baha’i books are in English. The only one that has solely the writings of the Bab is a compilation of His Works. I don’t have ready access to speakers of Arabic.

I understand. But this is just one sentence. Anyway, its your prerogative if you cannot accept it because you dont have a translation. This is supposedly the Babs writing.

For Baha’is, the Prophets are like perfect mirrors reflecting the sun. The sun is a metaphor for God. The mirror and sun are distinct from each other as the Creator is seperate from His Creation. Although humans reflect Divine attributes, humans are not gods or God. So for me there is no conflict between the Quran and Baha’i Writings. If you want to see them as irreconcilably contradictory that is your prerogative.

I have outlined the conflict. The metaphor you use is not relevant to the Quran, and is conflicting. If you are interested, I will cut and paste my statement which I made three times already or at least twice which you seem not to address at all. The Quran is in conflict to the Bahai belief.

Nevertheless, the point is that the Quranic injunction is that "La ilaaha illalah". Nothing is divine, other than God. Thus, you have to decide if the Bab, and of course Bahaullah had any divinity, or they were all human. Because, the Quran states very clearly, that "La ilaaha illa huwa". There is no divinity whatsoever. This is the whole concept of the Quran. So this kind of prophet or messenger (will see after you define them) in the Bahai faith are absolutely irreconcilable to the Rasool and Nabi in the Quran.

Yet I hear Muslims say PBUH after mentioning the Prophets name. That of course is a sign of respect and reverence. The Quran will occupy a special place in the household.

Thats not relevant to the Quran and its text which you believe is Gods word.

The problem isn’t that Baha’is see Bahá’u’lláh as God.

I didnt say that. So its a strawman.

The real problem is that Baha’is revere Bahá’u’lláh and His Writings as Muslims revere Muhammad and the Quran.

Absolutely untrue. Muslims dont think Muhammed was a "manifestation of God", the Quran doesnt say it, Muhammed has no divinity, neither does Jesus or any other person mentioned or not mentioned anywhere. They are not divine. Thats the whole point. So the Bahai belief is in direct conflict with the Quran you are ignoring brother.

Therefore Baha’is are apostates and the Baha’i Faith is an apostate religion.

That is not relevant. You are creating a new caricature for you to address. You have not addressed the whole point for which you even asked for Quranic verses. I will cut and paste again so that you can objectively respond.

Quran says clearly not to idolise anyone or anything. Not even your own wishful thinking or ego. Religious leaders and scholars (9:31), money and wealth (18:42), angels, dead saints, messengers and prophets (16:20, 21; 35:14; 46:5, 6; 53:23), and ego/wishful thinking (25:43, 45:23) all can be idolized. Idolisation if you read is making someone ilah. Itthahadha ilaahahoo. Take as "ilah" or "Deity/divinity".

Nothing is divine. No one is divine. Only God is. Thats the whole concept of the Qur'an.

Peace.

 

[firedragon]

As perhaps you know, I do not believe in God, soul or prophets. This is what Bahaollah said and his followers believe.

Where did Bahaullah say it?