Baha'i and Messengers

[Aupmanyav]

How do you think God could do that? Come on down? No, that is not possible.
Baha'u'llah gives testimony for God, not the other way around.

'How' is not my problem. You have an all-mighty God. Is there a limit to what he can do? Bahaollah himself has no testimony, how can he testify for God or anyone else?

I have posted the evidence for Baha'u'llah on this forum over and over again on numerous threads.

All you have said that it is your belief. That is not evidence.

At that moment I received a new life, a new eye, a new ear, a new heart and a new mind and can now gaze through the eye of God in absolute certainty

Congrats for getting a new life, a new eye, a new ear, a new heart and a new mind with which you can gaze through the eye of God. I am satisfied with what I have.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There is only one who can certify that Bahaollah was sent by God, and that is God himself. Your testimony has no value.There is a reason to everything. I do not know what is your reason.

And He did certify Baha’u’llah to me. through His Spirit.

 

[loverofhumanity]

'How' is not my problem. You have an all-mighty God. Is there a limit to what he can do? Bahaollah himself has no testimony, how can he testify for God or anyone else?All you have said that it is your belief. That is not evidence.Congrats for getting a new life, a new eye, a new ear, a new heart and a new mind with which you can gaze through the eye of God. I am satisfied with what I have.

Being satisfied won’t make covid go away.

 

[Trailblazer]

At that moment I received a new life, a new eye, a new ear, a new heart and a new mind and can now gaze through the eye of God in absolute certainty.

I often think this precious gift should not have been given to me but someone more worthy, someone better able to communicate to others.

Beautifully put. I had been a Baha'i for about 44 years when I received my new life. I always believed in Baha'u'llah and in God but I did not really know much about either until I picked up Gleanings in June 2014 and that began my new life.

I often think this precious gift should not have been given to me but someone more worthy since I do not even love God, and often I do not even want to be a believer or a Baha'i. Hopefully God understands that this is just part of my emotional condition which has been a lifelong struggle.

Probably the only thing I am good for is writing posts on forums, as I have always been good at writing and communicating with people. It helps that I have a background in psychology and an MA in psychology.

I understand atheists only too well and I do not judge them in any way, and half the time I wish I could be an atheist. It is so difficult being a Baha'i and having so many requirements and having to sacrifice so much of my life. I really get nothing for my self except a sense of satisfaction that I am doing the right thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

'How' is not my problem. You have an all-mighty God. Is there a limit to what he can do? Bahaollah himself has no testimony, how can he testify for God or anyone else?

There might not be a limit to what God can do, but there is a limit to what God chooses to do.
God doeth whatsoever He willeth, and nothing more.

All you have said that it is your belief. That is not evidence.

No, I have my belief because of the evidence.

 

[ppp]

Those accusers just don't want to face the fact that we Baha'is have done our homework and our beliefs are based upon good evidence and research,

Why should your "accusers" be convinced that is a fact to be faced?

 

[Sundance]

These stories were created by people some 3000 years ago according to their beliefs. They hardly have any value today and some are definitely misleading. I do not even believe in existence of any God or soul.

The first statement may be true, but the second one, I’m not sold on too much. Everything written is gonna reflect specific cultures, viewpoints, time periods, and all that jazz, but that doesn’t at all mean that there aren’t valuable insights into reality and human nature, or other topics that those writings can offer. The interpretations of those writings….some can be quite unsavory, I agree.

Concerning your disbelief in God or in the existence of a soul, surely you don’t have to believe in God to know that, for instance, human life has inherent worth or value, or that there’s something wrong with human nature. These are insights communicated through specific stories in the Book of Genesis, Aup. Human beings from every culture have used stories to teach since the very beginning of time.

 

[Sundance]

Ditto on what @Truthseeker said to you...
He is my bff and keeps me on the straight and narrow as he is a much better Baha'i than I am, although we have both been Baha'is for about the same number of years and are about the same age and have been married to the same spouse for the same number of years.... go figure!
Duane and I met on the Planet Baha'i forum about nine years ago.

Go figure!

And awwwwww you both, alongside @TransmutingSoul, @Dawnofhope, @loverofhumanity, and @arthra have filled me with much enthusiasm over the few short years that I’ve been a Bahá’í. Even though I struggle, I’ll just say thank you from my heart and soul, and may my life be a sacrifice to the Blessed Beauty.


Dev

 

[Aupmanyav]

And He did certify Baha’u’llah to me. through His Spirit.

Might have, but not to me. My mind advises me to keep away from superstition and ignorance.

Being satisfied won’t make covid go away.

Praying also does not make Covid or for that matter any disease, disability or disaster go away.

 

[KWED]

Baha'u'llah said that we should be very skeptical.
Baha'u'llah knew that it was God communicating to Him, but we cannot know that since we were not the ones who were communicated to. That is why we should be very skeptical.

Ok. So everyone who claims that god really has spoken to them must be correct.
Fair enough.

 

[KWED]

Who is insisting that God exists? Not me. I just believe that God exists, given the evidence. You are free to reject the evidence and believe whatever you want to believe.

**** me! We've already had this discussion. You are absolutely convinced that god exists and nothing will change your mind. Therefore you are insisting god exists.
Insist: State positively and assertively. (OED)

The claim that the God that Baha'is believe in exists has supporting evidence and it is based upon a rational argument.

And yet every time you make this claim, you fail to produce either, instead relying of unsupported claims and circular logic.

But there is evidence. You simply saying "Messengers are not evidence for God" does not make it so.

Yes it does. In the same way that me claiming to be a messenger of the invisible unicorns in my garage can be dismissed as "evidence" for those unicorns.

 

[rational experiences]

I heard father not a God speak. As God O earth entity first O earth first does not speak.

Man says I speak on behalf of god.

Father said our science machine brother is simply a liar

His science began with dusts

Yet he did not create dusts. He did not create gods rock earth. He says I want the first radiation earth released.

He doesn't own it in science the planet does

As it releases into our ground heavens water oxygen. You scientist never ever have it. Water oxygen does. The life spirit not humans life. Life is within our body first liar. Water and oxygen remains as water and oxygen first.

Liars

Father has tried to explain human truth you just don't want to accept you are wrong.

Plain simple fact.

 

[Audie]

That's true. Hope that doesn't confuse you.

Weird notion, that it would confuse me.

 

[Audie]

It's not that it will benefit me. It does benefit me now.

My phrasing includescpresentvand future.

And its all about self.

 

[Audie]

You are referring to verses at the end of Mark, I think here.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mark originally ended with the tomb being found empty. Later someone added verses that included those above. This has bad smell to it, and I think that Jesus said the way people would know they would be His followers was by the love they showed to each other.

I have read the book of Mormon, at least in part, and in it Jesus towards the end floats down from the sky and repeats what He said in Matthew. The book of Mormon is also about the lost tribes of Israel coming to America, which was believed by a number of people at that time, but what historian believes that now? Also Joseph Smith taught that God has a physical body and lines on a planet revolving around a star. I find this all unbelievable myself. It appears to me he made this all up. No, this not a religion inspired by God.

Millions believe it. You are smarter than any of them?
I asked a Mormon why he believed it.
He said God told him its true.

The faith is demonstrably very beneficial.

Everyone figures they lucked into the one true faith.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Might have, but not to me. My mind advises me to keep away from superstition and ignorance.Praying also does not make Covid or for that matter any disease, disability or disaster go away.

What will? According to the WHO they said that it’s imperative that covid be viewed and addressed as a global problem because rich countries will only be infected again with new variants coming from poorer nations which can’t vaccinate everyone. Then we are talking about the need for the world not to view the problem nationally but as a universal crises.

This is why we need the world to come together. This is what Baha’u’llah teaches.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What will? According to the WHO they said that it’s imperative that covid be viewed and addressed as a global problem because rich countries will only be infected again with new variants coming from poorer nations which can’t vaccinate everyone. Then we are talking about the need for the world not to view the problem nationally but as a universal crises.
This is why we need the world to come together. This is what Baha’u’llah teaches.

That is what you and Bahaiism do not understand.
Not every one will have the same view. People protest and sometimes riot, even revolutions like it happened in Poland, Russia and elsewhere, when what they do not like is imposed on them. There are a whole lot of people who do not want any kind of restrictions, neither masks nor jabs. What would you do with them? Jail them, kill them with Bahai militia?

World is what it is. Allah (if there is any, according to my belief there is none) may send thousands of Bahaollah's, but the world is not going to change its ways. It will only get worse with more religions. What Bahais postulate is only arm-chair Utopia.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but that doesn’t at all mean that there aren’t valuable insights into reality and human nature, ..
.. for instance, human life has inherent worth or value, ..

Well, even Aesop's fables are instructive or for that matter the Panchatantra and Vaitala stories in India also are very instructive. But we do not make characters from them into Gods. From a human/personal view human life has value, but on macro scale it has absolutely no value, no more than that of a fly.

.. and may my life be a sacrifice to the Blessed Beauty.

I would have become a Bahai if the Bahai heaven offered a mansion, 72 houris and unlimited supply of booze, but unfortunately it does not offer that. Go, sacrifice your life.

 

[Audie]

What will? According to the WHO they said that it’s imperative that covid be viewed and addressed as a global problem because rich countries will only be infected again with new variants coming from poorer nations which can’t vaccinate everyone. Then we are talking about the need for the world not to view the problem nationally but as a universal crises.

This is why we need the world to come together. This is what Baha’u’llah teaches.

Does Mr. B teach that the virus is here to stay,
that vaccination neither prevents nor cures the disease?
A country could wall itself off totally but
the disease wont go away, ever. Nobody
even pretends it will.
The only uncertainty is about what new mutants may occur. Like the flu, that keeps changing and never will go away.

" the world come together" has zip to do
with it.

Pretending Mr. B has the formula for everything is pointless.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That is what you and Bahaiism do not understand.
Not every one will have the same view. People protest and sometimes riot, even revolutions like it happened in Poland, Russia and elsewhere, when what they do not like is imposed on them. There are a whole lot of people who do not want any kind of restrictions, neither masks nor jabs. What would you do with them? Jail them, kill them with Bahai militia?

World is what it is. Allah (if there is any, according to my belief there is none) may send thousands of Bahaollah's, but the world is not going to change its ways. It will only get worse with more religions. What Bahais postulate is only arm-chair Utopia.

The only thing then is that covid will continue to infect until all the world is vaccinated. That might involve much more unnecessary death and suffering.