Bahai factions...

[Gaura Priya]

Orthodox Bahai Faith, Haifan Bahai Faith, Unitarian Bahai Faith, Free Bahais, Bahais Under the Provision of the Covenant, Reform Bahai Faith, 'Unenrolled Bahais' etc.

Why is Bahaism so fractured and split up into so many groups? Why do the others necessarily need to be wrong? I frankly do believe that they are Bahais at heart, even if they do not express believe in the current headship of the Universal House of Justice.

I thought that being Bahai simply means to love all the world, to love humanity and to try to serve it, to work for universal peace... etc.

From the Bab, you have the Bahais, and the Bayanis who still believe in the Bayan and that Bahaullah is not the One that they are waiting for. Then from Abdul-Baha there is another split between him and Ghusn-i-Akbar. Then from Shoghi Effendi you have splits due to Guardianship problems.

This is the unchanging Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future... yet like any other religion, it is full of factions and fractions. :areyoucra

 

[BruceDLimber]

No, being Baha'i also means being true to the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, and the other groups you mention have in no way even come near to doing this!

Among other things, there was no way another Guardian could be appointed after Shoghi Effendi's death: not only would he have had to nominate someone, but it would have had to have been a blood descendant of Baha'u'llah, and there were by that time none who weren't covenant-breakers themselves! NO ONE else was is is eligible, and the variant groups have simply ignored this and appointed other individuals regardless. They also completely ignore Baha'u'llah's instructions regarding the Universal House of Justice and obedience to it. These groups are thus in no way Baha'i no matter WHAT they call themselves!

Further, they can't even agree among themselves: some of these groups are already extinct and the others have split further due to their own infighting.

And another important point is that they groups are EXTREMELY SMALL--only a few dozen or maybe a hundred members at their peak--, contrasted with around seven million Baha'is, all of whom are united under the Covenant! And BTW, "Haifan" is a put-down used only by covenant-breakers, never the Baha'is themselves.

I hope this makes the situation clear.

Bruce

 

[arthra]

Madanbhakti,

Welcome to the Baha'i Forum!

It's rare to have a Vaishnava Bhakti here.. You probably already know that Baha'is accept Bhagavan Sri Krishna as a Manifestion of God..

You've identified an important characteristic of the Baha'i Faith as unity and harmony..

The Reality of the divine Religions is one, because the Reality is one and cannot be two. All the prophets are united in their message, and unshaken. They are like the sun; in different seasons they ascend from different rising points on the horizon. Therefore every ancient prophet gave the glad tidings of the future, and every future has accepted the past.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 28

Historically it's true that there have always been some who disagree or followed their own directions and some attempted to destroy the unity of our Faith but these attempts were unsuccessful.


Many of the groups you mentioned such as Orthodox Bahai Faith, Haifan Bahai Faith, Unitarian Bahai Faith, Free Bahais, Bahais Under the Provision of the Covenant, Reform Bahai Faith, 'Unenrolled Bahais' are the spinoffs of persons who have left the Faith and are trying to organize something of their own creation.. If you check the internet lately this medium gives an opportunity for people who are disgruntled or simply want to do their own thing... and so that's part of life today..


The reference to "Haifan Baha'is" is a term used by some of these groups and individuals to refer to the Baha'i World Centre in Haifa, Israel. Haifa has been the administrative center of the Baha'i Faith for over a hundred years.

The vast majority of Baha'is are composed of at least ninety percent recognize the Baha'i Faith that is elected by the believers regularly Local Spiritual Assemblies, National Spiritual Assemblies and the Universal House of Justice.

 

[Boethiah]

I don't think it really matters. To each his own, I say. The way I see it, we are all still apart of the changeless faith of God. We are all humans by that(of all creeds) in my opinion.

Can I say who is right and who is wrong? No, it isn't my place. The Baha'i Faith is bound to have divisions. All religions eventually have some sort of schism. The important thing is to not focus too much on the schism. Too much time focusing on why "they" are wrong and "we" are right in matters of religion is pointless in my view.

I am an unenrolled Baha'i. I am not sure if that is group. It is more of a state of being. I'm not any less of a Baha'i, and I doubt any of the other schism members are less Baha'i. They just view how the Faith should be headed differently, which isn't really associated with their "faith". They share the same core beliefs.

I'd say schisms are good for growing.

 

[arthra]

Well Boethiah..

Schisms and polarities and divisiveness and "clicks" may be what many of us humans do these days.. but if you were in a Baha'i community I think you'd know that that's a trait we try to overcome..

What you will learn from schisms is the bitterness and sadness.

A few years ago I was a volunteer working under the Chaplain at a local hospital.. We had some assigned rounds on the floors of the hospital and the purpose was to offer people some encouragement and support in their circumstances. One the patients I met was a Congregational minister of the local church.. I don't recall why she was there but she was extremely depressed over her church splitting apart.. She had dedicated her life to the church and now it was splitting apart before her eyes and heart.. I can't tell you how depressed and painful that schism was for her..

Boethiah.. I'm suggesting you read some about the history of the Faith and about schisms.. One book you might find instructive:

THE COVENANT OF BAHÁ'U'LLÁH
By Adib Taherzadeh

 

[Boethiah]

Well Boethiah..

Schisms and polarities and divisiveness and "clicks" may be what many of us humans do these days.. but if you were in a Baha'i community I think you'd know that that's a trait we try to overcome..

What you will learn from schisms is the bitterness and sadness.

A few years ago I was a volunteer working under the Chaplain at a local hospital.. We had some assigned rounds on the floors of the hospital and the purpose was to offer people some encouragement and support in their circumstances. One the patients I met was a Congregational minister of the local church.. I don't recall why she was there but she was extremely depressed over her church splitting apart.. She had dedicated her life to the church and now it was splitting apart before her eyes and heart.. I can't tell you how depressed and painful that schism was for her..

Boethiah.. I'm suggesting you read some about the history of the Faith and about schisms.. One book you might find instructive:

THE COVENANT OF BAHÁ'U'LLÁH
By Adib Taherzadeh

Oh, There is no doubt that schisms can be emotionally and otherwise painful. Bitterness and sadness is perhaps unavoidable when so much time and effort and faith is put into something. Divisions should be avoided, but sometimes it is inevitable. There is good and bad to everything.

I will look into this book, thank you!

 

[arthra]

You're welcome..

COVENANT OF BAHA'U'LLAH SC

Having a historical perspective on the Faith and understanding what the Covenant of Baha'u'llah is may help you..

Also being a part of a Baha'i community is important...

 

[BruceDLimber]

Yes, it certainly DOES matter, Boethiah, because the Covenant promises us that no attempt at splitting the Faith will ultimately succeed!

And indeed, a number of these man-made factions are already extinct (including ALL of those from the time of Baha'u'llah, 'Abdu'l-Baha, and the early years of Shoghi Effendi)! And those remaining are TINY, as I already pointed out--as well as being known mainly for infighting with each other and issuing frequent put-downs of the Baha'i Faith itself (usually under the disparaging epithet "Haifan").

Of course, it's not the least unusual for the losing side to be making the most noise. . .

Just the facts.

Bruce

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I have a question, not to take it too off topic. Can Baha'is under the UHJ actually prove from authentic well validated sources that their sect of Baha'ism is the true one? I have a lot of respect for Baha'is, but I would like to see this cleared up, but I won't just accept something because someone says so.

 

[arthra]

I have a question, not to take it too off topic. Can Baha'is under the UHJ actually prove from authentic well validated sources that their sect of Baha'ism is the true one? I have a lot of respect for Baha'is, but I would like to see this cleared up, but I won't just accept something because someone says so.

There's no such designation "Baha'is under the UHJ"... there is only Baha'is. Further, it's not really "our sect" as that implies we acknowledge sectarian divisions. It's true though... some people leave the Faith and seek to divide it or set up their own groups. The designation "Bahaism" was common in some academic circles early in the 20th century.. today it is known as simply Baha'i Faith.

The proof I suppose is in the (1) Kitab-i-Aqdas and

(2) The Kitáb-i-`Ahd (Arabic: ﻛﺘﺎﺏ ﻋﻬﺪﻱ‎ literally "Book of My Covenant") is Bahá'u'lláh's Will and Testament, where he selects `Abdu'l-Bahá as his successor and His Interpretor..

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 219-223

In the Will and Testament of Abdul-Baha designating the Guardian of the Faith and the Universal House of Justice..

The Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Bahá

also see:

Compilation on the Covenant

 

[Boethiah]

Yes, it certainly DOES matter, Boethiah, because the Covenant promises us that no attempt at splitting the Faith will ultimately succeed!

And indeed, a number of these man-made factions are already extinct (including ALL of those from the time of Baha'u'llah, 'Abdu'l-Baha, and the early years of Shoghi Effendi)! And those remaining are TINY, as I already pointed out--as well as being known mainly for infighting with each other and issuing frequent put-downs of the Baha'i Faith itself (usually under the disparaging epithet "Haifan").

Of course, it's not the least unusual for the losing side to be making the most noise. . .

Just the facts.

Bruce

(emphasis my own)

Then why does it matter? If these groups are bound to fail, then it would be best to leave them to their error and to keep moving forward. If other people want to worry about the sects, that's fine, but I'm not going to. That is all I'm saying. What will be will be.

You're welcome..

COVENANT OF BAHA'U'LLAH SC

Having a historical perspective on the Faith and understanding what the Covenant of Baha'u'llah is may help you..

Also being a part of a Baha'i community is important...

Being un-enrolled is difficult sometimes.

 

[arthra]

Boethiah wrote:

If these groups are bound to fail, then it would be best to leave them to their error and to keep moving forward.

Actually Boethiah.. that's exactly what we do!.. Leave them to themselves. So we allow them complete freedom to do their thing.. and we do not associate ourselves with them or even really communicate with them at all.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I have heard from some people that Abdu'l-Baha's Will and Testament was a forgery. But that could also be merely conspiracy.

But this is what gets to me and makes me wonder about the Bahai Faith... to me, all of these groups are the "Bahai Faith" and they are as valid as the Bahai Faith based in Haifa. I strongly disagree with the whole 'disassociating' with Covenant-Breakers and I have read some of Ghusn-i-Akbar's writings.

Ghusn-i-Akbar believed that there should be no monopoly on who should be the authority because Bahaullah is the authority and the Centre of the Covenant. So this idea of monopolising the Faith in that there should be a Guardian or a governmental organisation would be counterproductive to what Bahaullah's original intentions are, which is a global Faith for everyone. This 'trademarking' is something I dislike, because it is like how ISKCON (the International Society for Krishna Consciousness) trademarks on the philosophy of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, although ISKCON is only one of the other organisations out there in teaching about Vaishnavism and the worship of Krishna.

I remember online and some Bahais who believe in the Universal House of Justice are so nasty to the Orthodox Bahais calling them 'Covenant-Breakers' and saying 'Covenant-Breaker alert.' I just thought that such an attitude seemed so... primitive and anti-humanitarian. Not to say that all Bahais are like this, but I seemed to encounter it at almost every Orthodox Bahai video I saw.

Anyways, just some interesting thoughts...

Yes, thank you for recognising me of being a Vaishnava (follower of Vaishnavism). The one thing that makes us Vaishnavas unique from the rest of 'Hinduism' is that we believe that Lord Vishnu is the Supreme Conception of God. Some Vaishnava denominations see Krishna as the most Pure manifestation of Vishnu, and other groups (like mine) see Krishna as the first and primemost source of Vishnu, especially when reading statements of the Gita. But nevertheless, Krishna/Vishnu is the Supreme Lord, and the same God as Allah, Jehovah, and Abha.

 

[Badi19]

www . sectsofbahais . com

 

[Badi19]

Dear Madan,

They have converted many Hindus in Nepal and India.

You also need to see this blog :

ruhibooks . blogspot . com

Please remove the spaces from the URL.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Then why does it matter? If these groups are bound to fail, then it would be best to leave them to their error and to keep moving forward.

Precisely what we do and have been doing!

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

I have heard from some people that Abdu'l-Baha's Will and Testament was a forgery. But that could also be merely conspiracy.

That was the failed theory of a couple convenant-breakers seventy or eighty years ago: they have since been discredited!

I refer you in particular to the excellent book Making the Crooked Straight, which addresses and refutes this charge in detail! If you ask around, various Baha'is should own a copy.

Also, please note that NONE of these variant groups are "Baha'is!" A Baha'i is someone who endeavors to follow and obey the Baha'i Coveant, which these individuals do not even attempt to do! Again, if you read the Compilation on the Covenant (which site Art has provided you), this will become clear.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

www . sectsofbahais . com

Badi, you might want to post this in a non-DIR forum. DIR forums are no-debate faith sanctuaries.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Badi, you might want to post this in a non-DIR forum. DIR forums are no-debate faith sanctuaries.

As long as the information is not for debate, I think posting on the different denominations or beliefs spreading from a religion is okay. It's just more information on the history. They are part of Bahai Faith history, and not necessarily one religion against another.

I checked out the websites. Granted, the websites are a little biased negatively, I have never seen them before, and I checked them out individually after. They do have historical merit.

Besides, we posted on the Hindu forum about the different sects, and some even argued a little. I think it's not a bad thing...

 

[Gaura Priya]

That was the failed theory of a couple convenant-breakers seventy or eighty years ago: they have since been discredited!

I refer you in particular to the excellent book Making the Crooked Straight, which addresses and refutes this charge in detail! If you ask around, various Baha'is should own a copy.

Also, please note that NONE of these variant groups are "Baha'is!" A Baha'i is someone who endeavors to follow and obey the Baha'i Coveant, which these individuals do not even attempt to do! Again, if you read the Compilation on the Covenant (which site Art has provided you), this will become clear.

Peace,

Bruce

I will see that book... I wonder if I can find it online for free?

After reading online, I do have a much broader understanding of what a Bahai is, but thank you all for the information anyways!

I will check out those books when I have the chance to visit the local Bahai centre.