Baha'i law: Paying 8000 times the weight of earth in gold to the UHJ for adultery!!!

[oldbadger]

What?

Surely you can recognize a mindless attack when you see it. . . .

No. I try to take everything at face value.
I never presume what others can see or recognise.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is the Baha'i law for adultery/fornication:

"God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice nine mithqāls of gold, to be doubled if they should repeat the offence . . . Although the term translated here as adultery refers, in its broadest sense, to unlawful sexual intercourse between either married or unmarried individuals (see note 36 for a definition of the term), `Abdu’l-Bahā has specified that the punishment here prescribed is for sexual intercourse between persons who are unmarried . . . In relation to the application of the fine, Bahā’u’llāh clearly specifies that each succeeding fine is double the preceding one; thus the fine imposed increases in geometrical progression."
Bahā’u’llāh, The Kitābi Aqdas, pp. 200–202.

Can you put it on your credit card? Or set up some kind of payment plan?

 

[oldbadger]

Can you put it on your credit card? Or set up some kind of payment plan?

Hello..... with fun and my clowning around this post was sent away, and was disappearing to oblivion. But....... (probably) vexed by any intrusion of mine (an ex-Bahai) one member could not but help throwing a comment ....... and brought it straight back to the top of the first page!!

.....and the Bahai member's post was untrue, and prejudiced.
Prejudiced because it was presumed what I can see and recognise.

.....untrue because it claimed the OP was 'mindless', when in fact the OP was full on target with a very mindful attack.

...... Apart from your own thread, Bahaism receives indifferent attention on RF, and so at least an attack has some value in as much as it attracts attention.

...... Does the fine, around £830.00 (english pounds) also apply to homosexual love making?

 

[CG Didymus]

...... Apart from your own thread, Bahaism receives indifferent attention on RF, and so at least an attack has some value in as much as it attracts attention.

I too was a member for a couple of years back in 1970. Aah, the good old days. I was in Southern California. We had Seal and Crofts. We used to go to different reservations and tell the Native people about the Faith.

Then, I got "saved". Some hippie friends quit smoking dope and became Christians. In Orange County there was a Church called Calvary Chapel. Every Saturday night they had Christian rock concerts. Three thousand young people all praising Jesus. Sorry, I couldn't resist, especially because one of them was a cute little blond that showed an interest in me.

I found Jesus that night. Lost him about four years later. But I know where to find him if I want to. And, I know where to find the Baha'i Faith if I want to. I just want to clear up a lot of questions before I do. You know "independent" investigation of the truth.

Anyway, I don't remember this rule about making payments for fornicating. It's a good thing, because as a Baha'i and as a "good" Christian, I still did enough fooling around to where I would have owed a ton of money.

 

[oldbadger]

I too was a member for a couple of years back in 1970. Aah, the good old days. I was in Southern California. We had Seal and Crofts. We used to go to different reservations and tell the Native people about the Faith.

Then, I got "saved". Some hippie friends quit smoking dope and became Christians. In Orange County there was a Church called Calvary Chapel. Every Saturday night they had Christian rock concerts. Three thousand young people all praising Jesus. Sorry, I couldn't resist, especially because one of them was a cute little blond that showed an interest in me.

I found Jesus that night. Lost him about four years later. But I know where to find him if I want to. And, I know where to find the Baha'i Faith if I want to. I just want to clear up a lot of questions before I do. You know "independent" investigation of the truth.

Anyway, I don't remember this rule about making payments for fornicating. It's a good thing, because as a Baha'i and as a "good" Christian, I still did enough fooling around to where I would have owed a ton of money.

Well I never......... I declared in 1971! I remember Seals and Crofts! There were Gays in our community then. There were not so many translations available then, I guess. We gave copies of K Gibran's 'The Prophet' to each other and it was generally accepted that he had to have been 'Bahai driven' then. I must have given out at least ten copies of Seven Valleys over the years. In those days the book also contained the four valleys, I seem to remember. My wife and I married twice in the same day, in the morning at the registry office, and in the afternoon at the Bahai ceremony.

But the warm and beautiful evening of innocence turned into a cold dawn of realisation for me. But I'd still defend Bahai against a fierce attacker. Old habits.

 

[FearGod]

Correct! In Islam the guy usually walks.
All the pics that I have seen of stonings featured women half buried in the earth, and dead or dying..
So in general I guess only the girl would be stoned.

Bahai's seem very gender balanced by contrast..... don't you think?

You are speaking out of ignorance here.
Do you understand religion by pics and the media ?
Why not quoting a verse from the quran that says adulterers should be stoned to death ?

 

[CG Didymus]

You are speaking out of ignorance here.
Do you understand religion by pics and the media ?
Why not quoting a verse from the quran that says adulterers should be stoned to death ?

What does the Quran say about it? And, as practiced, what is the usual punishment. I know for Christian TV evangelists, it's usually a hand slap. That is if they cry on TV afterwards.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well I never......... I declared in 1971! I remember Seals and Crofts! There were Gays in our community then. There were not so many translations available then, I guess. We gave copies of K Gibran's 'The Prophet' to each other and it was generally accepted that he had to have been 'Bahai driven' then. I must have given out at least ten copies of Seven Valleys over the years. In those days the book also contained the four valleys, I seem to remember. My wife and I married twice in the same day, in the morning at the registry office, and in the afternoon at the Bahai ceremony.

But the warm and beautiful evening of innocence turned into a cold dawn of realisation for me. But I'd still defend Bahai against a fierce attacker. Old habits.

Yes, in the 70's, most of the Baha'is I knew were more like new agers. I fit in perfect because I was vegetarian and could do yoga. I wish you'd comment on my thread about progressive revelation. I'd love to hear how you thought then and what you think now.

 

[oldbadger]

You are speaking out of ignorance here.
Do you understand religion by pics and the media ?
Why not quoting a verse from the quran that says adulterers should be stoned to death ?

Of course I am! Which part of 'I'm guessing here....' did you have difficulty in understanding?

But you can tell us how it is that women get stoned to death in Islamic countries..... can you? I mean...... you know..... Islamic theocracies?

 

[oldbadger]

What does the Quran say about it? And, as practiced, what is the usual punishment. I know for Christian TV evangelists, it's usually a hand slap. That is if they cry on TV afterwards.

Only a hand slap for evangelists? Not even even a bottom slap....?
This could be a feature/benefit of converting....
....and you get to go to heaven.... AND..... if you get caught being naughty before marriage, or even after marriage..... we only slap your hand....

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, in the 70's, most of the Baha'is I knew were more like new agers. I fit in perfect because I was vegetarian and could do yoga. I wish you'd comment on my thread about progressive revelation. I'd love to hear how you thought then and what you think now.

Yes! There was a relaxed freedom about life and religion which was shared by everybody! And it didn't matter whether you were a City solicitor or a struggling artist, everybody accepted everybody and there was warmth that felt like 'larger family'..

And everything that was good, no matter what, we considered to have been Bahai influenced. A little bit later, about 72 or 73(?), Cat Stevens became a Muslim, and we all felt very excited about that .... I suppose because we all felt that progressive revelation would surely send him on to us...... we were happily excited about mostly everything. And no...... none of us were on drugs..... it was all communally generated .....

I used to talk Pantheism to everybody, but that was ok because it didn't matter how you saw God, it was all under one Sun, sort of thing.

And then the shocks began to come. A Gay guy, almost certainly destined for National assembly (I thought) came to our home one night, looking like his whole family had been wiped out...... he had been told..........

And then I was told......... in a letter.... about my Pantheism. And then my wife heard that she had to register as a Bahai because 'folks were masquerading as Bahais and could get hospitality amongst Bahais' sort of thing. In the Bahai World that I had entered, our doors were bloody open to anybody...! Who cared if you were a Bahai or not? Who cared? You know this..... because it was like that with your group..... I'll bet.

Revelation? Well, if somebody mentions Bahai revelation to me, I remember those days, as the true nature of Bahai was revealed..... revelation. It broke many hearts as we scattered. I can understand why Bahais wanted to break away and form splinter groups.... they might have been trying to rebuild that earlier feeling of love, acceptance and welvcome that made it all so magically beautiful then.

My wife remained a Bahai until her death. I always took her to meetings, etc and when she died I asked the LSA to tell me whatever the wanted, and I did it, from the writing on her memorial stone to the nature of the funeral ceremony. I gave them so much control that I even asked the LSA's permission to put her prayer book with her. But after it was over the distancing began. Revelation.

I had a couple of heavy debates on RF with Bahais about 2 years ago, but felt that I should not do that anymore because it was not beneficial for any, and so, when I saw your thread, I read it but stayed clear. And then this thread was launched, and because I did not expect a Bahai response to any of it I thought that at least an ex-Bahai would reply....... which lead to this.

 

[FearGod]

Of course I am! Which part of 'I'm guessing here....' did you have difficulty in understanding?

But you can tell us how it is that women get stoned to death in Islamic countries..... can you? I mean...... you know..... Islamic theocracies?

Yes i have difficulties in understanding the ignorant.

I asked you to show me one verse in the quran that says kill the woman who commit an adultery.

Stoning women to death was practiced by the Jews and that was a wrong practice.

Can you tell me how many women were stoned to death during the Islamic rule in Spain ?

 

[FearGod]

Only a hand slap for evangelists? Not even even a bottom slap....?
This could be a feature/benefit of converting....
....and you get to go to heaven.... AND..... if you get caught being naughty before marriage, or even after marriage..... we only slap your hand....

Yes slapping the hand and STD in the ***

 

[oldbadger]

Yes i have difficulties in understanding the ignorant.

.......well then go debate with someone else.
and why are you asking me about the qu'uran?
The whole world knows what happens to adulterers in Islamic theocracies...... Or can you tell us differently?
And don't start blaming other religions.....

 

[FearGod]

.......well then go debate with someone else.
and why are you asking me about the qu'uran?
The whole world knows what happens to adulterers in Islamic theocracies...... Or can you tell us differently?
And don't start blaming other religions.....

I don't blame other religions but i blame the ignorant.

Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is discovered committing adultery, both he and the woman must die. In this way, you will purge Israel of such evil.

If religion is to be blamed then we have to see stoning happening everywhere.

 

[Mirza Yusuf Husayn Ali]

Yeah,
This goes back to the bible when it would say a rapist had to pay silver to the father of the girl he raped.

Paying the UHJ won't help you get over your sin, I advise any Bahá'í to not pay, and ask Allah for forgiveness instead, this would also imply I would have to give money every time I made love to my partner. (I'm gay)

 

[oldbadger]

I don't blame other religions but i blame the ignorant.

If religion is to be blamed then we have to see stoning happening everywhere.

What a cop out...!
But don't worry, because all the World knows what happens to adulterers, especially women, in Muslim Theocracies. So we don't need a straight answer from you anyway...... which we had no chance of getting from you.

I might be ignorant (about your Qu'ran)..... but I ain't dumb!

 

[oldbadger]

Yeah,
This goes back to the bible when it would say a rapist had to pay silver to the father of the girl he raped.

Paying the UHJ won't help you get over your sin, I advise any Bahá'í to not pay, and ask Allah for forgiveness instead, this would also imply I would have to give money every time I made love to my partner. (I'm gay)

Welcome to RF!
Yes....... I wondered about whether Gays would be fined as well.

 

[FearGod]

What a cop out...!
But don't worry, because all the World knows what happens to adulterers, especially women, in Muslim Theocracies. So we don't need a straight answer from you anyway...... which we had no chance of getting from you.

I might be ignorant (about your Qu'ran)..... but I ain't dumb!

It isn't a cop out but a logical conclusion.

The bible forbids adultery while prostitution is allowed in most Christian countries, so religion has no effect in minimizing adultery.

Turkey is a Muslim country and Iran is a Muslim country, women can walk in bikini in Turkey while can't do it in Iran.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes! There was a relaxed freedom about life and religion which was shared by everybody! And it didn't matter whether you were a City solicitor or a struggling artist, everybody accepted everybody and there was warmth that felt like 'larger family'..

Ironically, the freedom with me and my friends started with smoking pot. We thought we had found a lost and forgotten truth, that love is the answer. After a few of the ladies got pregnant, and the father was long gone, a few thought it might be wise to find out what true love really meant. And, thus came religion.

Those ex-hippies that became Baha'is or Christians brought an openness. They seemed more genuine. Those were good times and with both religions, we really thought that the "new age" or the "lessor peace" or Christ's return was eminent. Anyway, back to the OP.

Killing people, making them pay fines, shunning them, nothing has ever stopped people from "enjoying" the pleasures of having sex with people they are not supposed to. I've only turned down sex because of religious commitments only a couple of times. I regretted making that decision. But, I've also regretted several of the times I did have sex. So what am I supposed to do? I guess your supposed to feel guilty in both the Baha'i Faith and Christianity. I guess I could do the smart thing and be prepared and go up to the foothills and start panning for gold.