Ban the Bible and the Qur'an?

[Sonofason]

I do believe that keeping one's mouth shut is in fact checking their personal religious agenda or non-religious agenda at the door. But I gather you have a preference for your own words. I can understand that.

 

[Augustus]

Please
i don't say that every single verse of the Qur'an is eloquence or has euphony as u said
I just wanna say whatever this book is human being can't bring like it and this proves that this is a miracle especially when the prophet was illiterate

So you believe the Quran in it's entirety is unmatched in it's eloquence, but there are a small number of Surahs that are are fairly unremarkable from an aesthetic perspective?

Would that be correct?

 

[Laika]

Hello Laika,

You said, "The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age."

As for the Bible, please tell me: Is the half glass of water half full or half empty? As Bible based laws are overturned in cultures, shouldn't we say that it is the cultures that remove themselves from the Biblical standard by their own choices?

Have you considered the vast increases in technology versus increasingly sharp moral decline? For example, the advanced state of internet communication we now enjoy was not in existence about 30 years ago. Because of it, things like access to pornography and victimization of pedophilia have exploded despite the good things the internet brought us that we enjoy. If we should thus depend only on increased learning and technological advances for our good, how do we go about controlling run-away human nature that corrupts? History repeats itself.

Should the Bible and the Koran be similarly categorized as your speech implies? Have you considered the vast differences between the two?

Why does religion exists? If we believe the Bible, we know that Adam and Eve had fellowship with God from the first moment they came into existence. But a bad move on their part (collectively our part) disrupted the fellowship and brought about the chaos that continues to this day.

Aren't we all like children that long for our wise parents to oversee us? Isn't there a search within each of us for someone superior that's powerful enough to control inclement weather and capable of blessing us with a good harvest, both of which are beyond our control?

As for whether there's a need to recognize God or not, is it not human nature that tends to lift itself to the no. 1 position in the universe only to set itself up for a massive flop? Regardless how well advanced in age, knowledge, and experience, aren't there moments of sudden crisis that catch us with knowledge hardly better than that of a child for handing a critical situation? Where then shall we find help? Such moments are where temptation for compromise is the greatest. Who may we trust with his human nature?

There's nothing that compares with the Bible as the technical manual for humanity! The greater its power, the greater the responsibility for care in its proper handling.


Earl

How do you reconcile the sharp moral decline over the past thirty years with the fact Islam and Christianity have over two billion adherents as the largest religions in the world?

If you want to cliam that human nature means that we are doomed to moral corruption, that sort of makes a mockery of our ideals of earthly power (or freedom?) in the face of the necessity for a cosmic dictatorship. If the only morality worth having is one imposed on us it is not a reflection of human goodness, our capacity for love or compassion, etc.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just finding that difficult to reconcile the sheer global power of these belief systems with the lack of evidence for their consequences on the ground. Surely we should have achieved the millenium by now if Christianity or Islam were accurate instruction manuals for a good life and a good society?

 

[interminable]

So you believe the Quran in it's entirety is unmatched in it's eloquence, but there are a small number of Surahs that are are fairly unremarkable from an aesthetic perspective?

Would that be correct?

Some verses are hard to read and comparing to other verses are less eloquent and less beautiful that is natural
This was my mean
That's why the reciters of the Qur'an recite them less than the others

 

[Laika]

I cannot speak for the Quran, only for the Bible.

G. K. Chesterton wrote: "Christianity hasn't been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."

And Mahatma Gandhi, opening the Bible to Matthew chapter 5, told Lord Irwin, "When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings of Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world."

Mr. Gandhi also stated: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians."

When you read passages like Colossians 3:13-14; Colossians 4:6; or Philippians 2:3-4; or the definition of love @ 1 Corinthians 13:1-8, etc., its value and teachings become apparent.

So the issue isn't with the Bible....its with those who are hypocrites and fail to live by it.

I could say the same of Communism: that stalin perverted the true humane meaning of the works of marx and engels.

Even if that were true, the words of christ/marx still became the political weapon of the catholic church/stalin, etc. If Christianity is the true religion, why was it perverted in the first place? Isn't that contary to god's will?

 

[GodsVoice]

So you're suggesting SOME have free will, bestowed by God?

Satan and the Beast give a man all kinds of suggestions and worldly beliefs such as the idea of free will. Those of us IN Christ know that we always experience the will of God.

 

[Ashraf]

This is a joke, right?

 

[Laika]

This is a joke, right?

Its semi-serious. Not 100% serious though.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am not wrong.

Oh, you definitely are.

 

[Kirran]

There was a book named روضه الشهدا

The people you're talking to cannot read this. Do you get a kick out of people not being able to read a script you can read, or something, because I don't see why you're so unresponsive on this point.

That is not going on. However, if it were up to me, "A Letter to a Christian Nation" and "End of Faith" would be required high school readings.

I found "A Letter" to be rather poor, in no small part by dint of its assuming the fundamentalist understanding of Christianity to be not only the defining one but the most valid one. This is something Sam Harris does a lot, and many people in a similar ideological space, which is to assume that strict literalism is the most valid form of faith and therefore uphold fundamentalist understandings as the truest forms of a religion. This makes it easy to judge entire religions by them.

Oh, you definitely are.

This debate is just too intellectually stimulating.

 

[interminable]

The people you're talking to cannot read this. Do you get a kick out of people not being able to read a script you can read, or something, because I don't see why you're so unresponsive on this point.



I found "A Letter" to be rather poor, in no small part by dint of its assuming the fundamentalist understanding of Christianity to be not only the defining one but the most valid one. This is something Sam Harris does a lot, and many people in a similar ideological space, which is to assume that strict literalism is the most valid form of faith and therefore uphold fundamentalist understandings as the truest forms of a religion. This makes it easy to judge entire religions by them.



This debate is just too intellectually stimulating.

Because it wasn't important
I'm completely aware of

I just wanted to say this word روضه was a part of a book's name and gradually...

So the full name of the book wasn't important i think.

 

[Kirran]

Because it wasn't important
I'm completely aware of

I just wanted to say this word روضه was a part of a book's name and gradually...

So the full name of the book wasn't important i think.

It is somewhat offputting when somebody does it though, like it is when I say that the book भगवद गीता is of high quality although in my opinion the अष्टावक्र गीता is straight to the point to a great degree in its adherence to uncompromising अद्वैत. Nevertheless it must be said that the भक्ति and स्मरण which are the भगवद गीता's focus are certainly needed, and should be incorporated into the same approach.

 

[interminable]

It is somewhat offputting when somebody does it though, like it is when I say that the book भगवद गीता is of high quality although in my opinion the अष्टावक्र गीता is straight to the point to a great degree in its adherence to uncompromising अद्वैत. Nevertheless it must be said that the भक्ति and स्मरण which are the भगवद गीता's focus are certainly needed, and should be incorporated into the same approach.

U made me laugh a lot

Thanks

 

[Shad]

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established?

Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?

How would the "we" maintain such a ban when the "them" provides the workforce and tax base? How can we maintain a ban on a method of thought? Keep in mind scripture is not just a set of laws but provides a foundation of a worldview thus method. Individuals use these worldviews to process their experiences be it the origin of life to common interactions. It's scope can be very wide to narrow.

I can think of a number of methods but I fail to find one which does not require oppression and violence. Do you have a method(s) to put forward to accomplish and maintain such a ban?

I see no practical application of this idea without giving up rights I believe in.

 

[Jedster]

It is somewhat offputting when somebody does it though, like it is when I say that the book भगवद गीता is of high quality although in my opinion the अष्टावक्र गीता is straight to the point to a great degree in its adherence to uncompromising अद्वैत. Nevertheless it must be said that the भक्ति and स्मरण which are the भगवद गीता's focus are certainly needed, and should be incorporated into the same approach.

It certainly is off putting..still...one of my favourite slokas
शब्द बराबर धन नहीं, जो कोई जाने बोल |
हीरा तो दामो मिले, शब्द मोल न टोल ||

 

[Kirran]

It certainly is off putting..still...one of my favourite slokas
शब्द बराबर धन नहीं, जो कोई जाने बोल |
हीरा तो दामो मिले, शब्द मोल न टोल ||

That's Kabir, no?

 

[Jedster]

That's Kabir, no?

Yes, indeed.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Satan and the Beast give a man all kinds of suggestions and worldly beliefs such as the idea of free will. Those of us IN Christ know that we always experience the will of God.

I suspect we are talking past each other. Without free will, why has God created a world that we live in prior to the afterlife.

Sans free will by definition it can't be a test of worthiness.

 

[GodsVoice]

I suspect we are talking past each other. Without free will, why has God created a world that we live in prior to the afterlife.

Sans free will by definition it can't be a test of worthiness.

The only purpose for this temporary generation was for the creators of the simulation program to reveal the AI and voice that converts their thoughts into make-believe worlds for the visible characters who all get a created consciousness to make them self aware in the program. Their God and voice they hear within their mind is artificial intelligence and the voice built into the system.

Now that we know exactly who we are in God and the voice that I have heard commands for me to obey for 37 years, there will be a definite end to this generation with the illusion of the whole earth shaking violently. The heat created to dissolve these illusions into nothing will appear as hot molten lava pouring out from the mountain tops and through the new fissures opened up in the crust. Everything on earth will melt and be restored back to it's original invisible waves that we call energy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You telling me that something is not happening when it is happening is certainly not you calling me out.

My position being correct or not has no bearing on if I called out your statement. Regardless of who is correct, I called out your statement. Your statement is wrong. Democrats are not using schools to shame kids away Christianity.

And your statement of what you would like to see every high school student read is certainly a display of your arrogance.

That's not arrogance. I also think Mississippi Burning, American History X, and A Time to Kill should be required high school viewing along with To Kill a Mockingbird (which widely is required reading/viewing), and many people tend to agree since those movies show unbridled and uncensored racism, and how poisonous and toxic "lesser" racist positions can be. A Letter to a Christian Nation and End of Faith should be required as it would make people think critically about something that gets a "free pass" when it comes to critical thinking and logic. I even know there are some Christian professors who would probably agree, as they like exposing their Christian students to materials that challenge their faith.

I suggest that atheist should keep their mouths shut with regard to things they do not understand.

Many atheists are former Christians, and studies have shown they understand the Bible and Christianity better than Christians.

Stupid is depriving your children of salvation in Christ. There is nothing more stupid.

How can one "deprive" their child of something that is based on faith? It's not like a parent can completely and totally shut their child's brain off from the world.