Ban the Bible and the Qur'an?

[Shadow Wolf]

I found "A Letter" to be rather poor, in no small part by dint of its assuming the fundamentalist understanding of Christianity to be not only the defining one but the most valid one.

I didn't think that was a poor point. We do, after all, call them fundamentalists and extremists due to their strict/extreme adherence to the fundamental principles of their religion. A good example is when some Christians say Christ did away with the need to follow the OT laws, but it's made obvious, at least three times in the Gospels, that this is not the case. Liberal Christians are obviously in the wrong according to their own policy. They often say the Resurrection is "all things fulfilled," but according to Christ the Resurrection is not end-point for "all things to come," thus rendering the "done away with OT law" interpretation void and invalid. There is nothing Biblical to support it, but more than enough Biblical verses to counter it.

 

[Augustus]

Some verses are hard to read and comparing to other verses are less eloquent and less beautiful that is natural
This was my mean
That's why the reciters of the Qur'an recite them less than the others

Do you think a human could write something of equal eloquence to the least beautiful and least eloquent of the short surahs?

 

[Laika]

How would the "we" maintain such a ban when the "them" provides the workforce and tax base? How can we maintain a ban on a method of thought? Keep in mind scripture is not just a set of laws but provides a foundation of a worldview thus method. Individuals use these worldviews to process their experiences be it the origin of life to common interactions. It's scope can be very wide to narrow.

I can think of a number of methods but I fail to find one which does not require oppression and violence. Do you have a method(s) to put forward to accomplish and maintain such a ban?

I see no practical application of this idea without giving up rights I believe in.

Another way of looking at it is recognising that Christianity and Islam have established a duopoly in the market place of ideas where they collectively dominate over a third of the worlds population. Banning the bible and the Quran could be seen as breaking up a monopoly power in ideas developed over a thousand and more years. This would reintroduce competition into the marketplace so that people are free to think outside the confines of these two religions in practice and not just on paper.

I don't expect you to believe that, but it's worth mentioning.

 

[Quintessence]

Another way of looking at it is recognising that Christianity and Islam have established a duopoly in the market place of ideas where they collectively dominate over a third of the worlds population. Banning the bible and the Quran could be seen as breaking up a monopoly power in ideas developed over a thousand and more years. This would reintroduce competition into the marketplace so that people are free to think outside the confines of these two religions in practice and not just on paper.

I don't expect you to believe that, but it's worth mentioning.

Hah! If I could believe it was that simple, cheers to that!

Truly, though, the nature of the information age is already doing that. It facilitates exposure to diversity, admittedly in ways that are not always particularly good or accurate.

 

[Kirran]

I didn't think that was a poor point. We do, after all, call them fundamentalists and extremists due to their strict/extreme adherence to the fundamental principles of their religion. A good example is when some Christians say Christ did away with the need to follow the OT laws, but it's made obvious, at least three times in the Gospels, that this is not the case. Liberal Christians are obviously in the wrong according to their own policy. They often say the Resurrection is "all things fulfilled," but according to Christ the Resurrection is not end-point for "all things to come," thus rendering the "done away with OT law" interpretation void and invalid. There is nothing Biblical to support it, but more than enough Biblical verses to counter it.

Right, but Sam Harris didn't call them fundamentalists and extremists, he just called them Christians. There was a sentence or two near the beginning which pushed other kinds of Christian under the carpet condescendingly.

 

[Rapture Era]

God is love.

friendship is two bodies being of one mind, or yoked together.

Jesus said to love your neighbor and your enemies. He who wishes to be greatest must be a slave/servant to all. That is the oneness or tawheed/tawhid and Jesus Most High God. God is not a respecter of person even if the christian or follower of islam believe so.

Just want to make sure I'm hearing you correctly. Yes, God is love, perfect love and He is no respecter of persons. He demonstrated His love by sending His son Jesus Christ to be the perfect sinless sacrifice that paid for our sin. Jesus said, " I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one gets into heaven except through me." It's our choice to believe in Him as the only true living God or not. No matter what religion you come from or were born into, Jesus is waiting at the door of your heart. He says "I am at the door and knock, if you open the door and invite me in I will dine with you" meaning He will come into your life, the Holy Spirit will come into you and you will be saved. He will never leave you and no one can take you from Him! This is the Love God has for everyone because He doesnt want anyone to perish in hell! So He did what was possible to allow us to spend all eternity with Him in heaven and not hell. However, it is our choice where we want to spend eternity. This is what He did for us, this is the love He offers to all who will accept His free gift of salvation, pretty incredible isnt it? The Ten Commandments were written by God Himself. In the very first commandment He says "I am the LORD God. Second commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods." This means Allah or any other god people worship. Third commandment, " No graven images or likenesses." So its pretty clear God is saying I am the only God so dont worship any other god(s) and dont make little figurines and worship those either. Its a very strong message! Now, having said that, "tawheed/tawhid" has nothing to do with you as a person loving and forgiving others, even the people you dont like as Jesus commanded. The Quran does NOT promote this kind of love as the bible (the word of God Himself) does. That was the point I was trying to get across and ex-muslims will tell you the same thing. Its why Muslims are leaving Islam and converting to Christianity. If they are going to worship a God, they want the real one who promotes love not violence. Think about this for a moment. What other god has claimed to have created the universe, the stars, the moon, this earth and all life on the earth including human beings? Which god has ever said that he will die and pay the price for your sin so that you can live with him forever in heaven? NONE OF THEM except Jesus Christ. Doesnt that tell you something? It should. Maybe people should listen to what He has to say and free themselves from being bullied by an ideology that if you leave you will be subject to being killed. What a messed up belief system that is!

 

[Fool]

Just want to make sure I'm hearing you correctly. Yes, God is love, perfect love and He is no respecter of persons. He demonstrated His love by sending His son Jesus Christ to be the perfect sinless sacrifice that paid for our sin. Jesus said, " I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one gets into heaven except through me." It's our choice to believe in Him as the only true living God or not. No matter what religion you come from or were born into, Jesus is waiting at the door of your heart. He says "I am at the door and knock, if you open the door and invite me in I will dine with you" meaning He will come into your life, the Holy Spirit will come into you and you will be saved. He will never leave you and no one can take you from Him! This is the Love God has for everyone because He doesnt want anyone to perish in hell! So He did what was possible to allow us to spend all eternity with Him in heaven and not hell. However, it is our choice where we want to spend eternity. This is what He did for us, this is the love He offers to all who will accept His free gift of salvation, pretty incredible isnt it? The Ten Commandments were written by God Himself. In the very first commandment He says "I am the LORD God. Second commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods." This means Allah or any other god people worship. Third commandment, " No graven images or likenesses." So its pretty clear God is saying I am the only God so dont worship any other god(s) and dont make little figurines and worship those either. Its a very strong message! Now, having said that, "tawheed/tawhid" has nothing to do with you as a person loving and forgiving others, even the people you dont like as Jesus commanded. The Quran does NOT promote this kind of love as the bible (the word of God Himself) does. That was the point I was trying to get across and ex-muslims will tell you the same thing. Its why Muslims are leaving Islam and converting to Christianity. If they are going to worship a God, they want the real one who promotes love not violence. Think about this for a moment. What other god has claimed to have created the universe, the stars, the moon, this earth and all life on the earth including human beings? Which god has ever said that he will die and pay the price for your sin so that you can live with him forever in heaven? NONE OF THEM except Jesus Christ. Doesnt that tell you something? It should. Maybe people should listen to what He has to say and free themselves from being bullied by an ideology that if you leave you will be subject to being killed. What a messed up belief system that is!

to believe on someone isn't an advocation to practice idolatry.

 

[interminable]

Do you think a human could write something of equal eloquence to the least beautiful and least eloquent of the short surahs?

A human can't

 

[Kirran]

A human can't

By what metrics?

 

[Augustus]

A human can't

So what features of these 2 Surahs in Arabic do you believe makes them far beyond the capabilities of even the most eloquent of people?

Say: 'I take refuge with the Lord of men, (1) the King of men, (2) the God of men, (3) from the evil of the slinking whisperer (4) who whispers in the breasts of men (5) of jinn and men.' (6)

Surely We have given thee abundance; (1) so pray unto thy Lord and sacrifice. (2) Surely he that hates thee, he is the one cut off. (3)

Just in your opinion. You understand both English and Arabic so there must be some remarkable features that disappear in the translation.

 

[interminable]

So what features of these 2 Surahs in Arabic do you believe makes them far beyond the capabilities of even the most eloquent of people?

Say: 'I take refuge with the Lord of men, (1) the King of men, (2) the God of men, (3) from the evil of the slinking whisperer (4) who whispers in the breasts of men (5) of jinn and men.' (6)

Surely We have given thee abundance; (1) so pray unto thy Lord and sacrifice. (2) Surely he that hates thee, he is the one cut off. (3)

Just in your opinion. You understand both English and Arabic so there must be some remarkable features that disappear in the translation.

In my previous posts I told that the meaning isn't so important while guys insisted that meaning is more important that's why they always repeated that there are lots of magnificent books in other languages but I said it's just the opposite
Eloquence and euphony is something that God insists on

Although I should say that our scholars maybe count lots of conditions that it takes me time to translate them Although even I doubt I could do that because they are very hard and I don't know their equivalents

 

[interminable]

By what metrics?

U want me to repeat all

 

[Kirran]

Some people say that Coelho's 'The Alchemist' is the most beautifully written text.

U want me to repeat all

Well you didn't really specify them clearly as far as I could understand. This is, I believe, because there is no objective metric involved.

 

[Rapture Era]

to believe on someone isn't an advocation to practice idolatry.

Depends on who or what the someone is.
To you personally, who is Jesus Christ?

 

[Fool]

Depends on who or what the someone is.
To you personally, who is Jesus Christ?

he was a personality, and christianity is mostly a cult of personality.

jesus said that you could do all these things and more; if you believe.
jesus did not say you could do all these things and more; if you worship jesus.

you can't profit from a loose cannon.


For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her idolatries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

 

[Rapture Era]

he was a personality, and christianity is mostly a cult of personality.

jesus said that you could do all these things and more; if you believe.
jesus did not say you could do all these things and more; if you worship jesus.

you can't profit from a loose cannon.


For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her idolatries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

You know that the second you take your last breath here on earth, you will know the absolute truth about who Jesus really is as will everyone. The problem is, if you are wrong, eternity will never ever ever end, ever. It's something very serious to think about because none of us knows when our time is up! Everyone has the choice to be in hell forever or heaven forever. God paved the road to heaven for us and everyone will come to that crossroad at some point in their life. The choice to take the road to heaven through Jesus Christ or not. No one will be able to blame anyone but themselves if they choose to reject Gods free gift of eternal life and end up in hell forever. Hell will be horror beyond any ones comprehension! Practically speaking, why would anyone want to choose that? Doesnt make any sense to me. Anyway, its something to think about while you are still breathing here on this side of eternity.

 

[Fool]

You know that the second you take your last breath here on earth, you will know the absolute truth about who Jesus really is as will everyone. The problem is, if you are wrong, eternity will never ever ever end, ever. It's something very serious to think about because none of us knows when our time is up! Everyone has the choice to be in hell forever or heaven forever. God paved the road to heaven for us and everyone will come to that crossroad at some point in their life. The choice to take the road to heaven through Jesus Christ or not. No one will be able to blame anyone but themselves if they choose to reject Gods free gift of eternal life and end up in hell forever. Hell will be horror beyond any ones comprehension! Practically speaking, why would anyone want to choose that? Doesnt make any sense to me. Anyway, its something to think about while you are still breathing here on this side of eternity.

actually when you take the last breath it's going to be your book that gets opened; if you don't open up before that day.

the second death has no power over those who overcome the first. wake up, NOW!!!!


And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

you're going to reap what you sow.
you cannot abdicate your actions and make jesus a whipping boy, or an idol.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If Christianity is the true religion, why was it perverted in the first place? Isn't that contary to god's will?

Those are good questions.

But God doesn't interfere with people's free will and the choices they make.
When you think about it though, weren't the Israelites God's chosen people, too? But so many times they strayed away from Yahweh! (Psalms 78:41; Isaiah 1:4)

The Apostle Paul said @ Acts of the Apostles 20:28-29, that after Paul died, those Christians would begin teaching twisted things. His further words at 2 Timothy 2:16-19, indicate the same thing. Peter commented on it, also.

Plus, we have to keep in mind who's behind this messed-up world: 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9. Satan is the ultimate Deceiver. Even Jesus, back in His day, referred to Satan as the ruler of this world!

(Oh, grief! I typed a bunch of other stuff with Scriptures, but my tablet stopped working.) I'll continue with more, later. Take care.

 

[YmirGF]

You know that the second you take your last breath here on earth, you will know the absolute truth about who Jesus really is as will everyone. The problem is, if you are wrong, eternity will never ever ever end, ever. It's something very serious to think about because none of us knows when our time is up! Everyone has the choice to be in hell forever or heaven forever. God paved the road to heaven for us and everyone will come to that crossroad at some point in their life. The choice to take the road to heaven through Jesus Christ or not. No one will be able to blame anyone but themselves if they choose to reject Gods free gift of eternal life and end up in hell forever. Hell will be horror beyond any ones comprehension! Practically speaking, why would anyone want to choose that? Doesnt make any sense to me. Anyway, its something to think about while you are still breathing here on this side of eternity.

I think you should add a bit more fire and brimstone.

 

[Rapture Era]

actually when you take the last breath it's going to be your book that gets opened; if you don't open up before that day.

the second death has no power over those who overcome the first. wake up, NOW!!!!


And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

you're going to reap what you sow.
you cannot abdicate your actions and make jesus a whipping boy, or an idol.

Question is, is your name in the Lambs Book of Life? If its not, you have a very big problem. I would consider having your name put in this book, and I have explained how you can do that. Your choice.