Banned Mormon Cartoon

[SoyLeche]

Some dude not that long ago invented mormonism. You could be a dude that invents something else. Some people will follow you and some people will follow Joseph. The entire tale is a story. By definition a story is a human invention. These tales are human stories. Fictional stories. (They seem to be the most powerful kind)

People are attaching things to their identity and filtering the world based on those attachments. Left vs Right, Mormons vs Muslims, Catholics vs Protestants, Trump vs Sanders or Hillary whatever... None of those things define a person but people like to think they do and act as such.

Its stories all the way down. In a 1000 years no one will care if you supported trump or were muslim or even know who you were unless you actually do something important so stop pretending these nonsensical views are as important as what actual people did a 1000 years ago that we still remember and build upon. (Think Edison, Tesla etc)

You are screaming at your relatives that Trump is a monster thinking that makes you on the same level... stop wasting time.

Edison and Tesla were no where near 1000 years ago. There’s not much of anyone or anything that we still remember or build upon from 1000 years ago. 2000 years ago, sure - but not 1000.

 

[Vaderecta]

Edison and Tesla were no where near 1000 years ago. There’s not much of anyone or anything that we still remember or build upon from 1000 years ago. 2000 years ago, sure - but not 1000.

I could probably think of a few.

Gautama Buddha, Epicurus, Archimedes, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Sir Issac Newton, Confucius, Laozi, Sun Tzu, Alexander the Great, Zoroaster... etc....

 

[Dragonslayer]

According to Strong's Concordance, of the 47 uses of râtsach, רָצַח which is the word translated in the 5th or 6th commandment to mean kill/murder, in the Bible only 17 reference murder. In all the others (30) it references killing with no connotation of being unlawful. So it's really a matter of translator preference as to how the word is converted. However, "kill" is by far the most common rendition.

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That you contend the killing is a specific form, murder, will require evidence. What ya got?

The evidence is common sense, it doesn't take much grey matter to figure out that the commandment is referring to murder. It's the only possible logical conclusion, any other interpretation wouldn't make any sense.

Remember, God commands us to kill people for committing certain crimes. So it's logical to conclude that killing is good when it is done for the right reasons. Even a fool would agree that it's OK to kill your enemy in a war situation or in a home invasion etc....

 

[Dragonslayer]

Then may I respectfully suggest that you leave it up to Him to do so? Despite what you may think, He's fully capable of handling the situation without your assistance.

That's true He can do all things without any assistance from us, but it is evident beyond question that He is pleased to use us to kill our enemies in certain situations such as in the theater of war or in the execution of capital punishment of criminals.

God can easily kill them on the spot but He uses us to do the killing in many cases. There's a vast difference between killing and murder, we are commanded to kill in the right circumstances but we are never permitted to commit murder under any circumstances.

 

[SoyLeche]

I could probably think of a few.

Gautama Buddha, Epicurus, Archimedes, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Sir Issac Newton, Confucius, Laozi, Sun Tzu, Alexander the Great, Zoroaster... etc....

2500, 2300, 2300, 2400, 2400, 2300, 400, 2500, 2500, 2500, 2300, ~3000.

No 1000 years ago there. There were probably some Muslims doing useful stuff 1000 years ago, but not much else.

And, yes - I'm being pedantic.

 

[SoyLeche]

I know Poe's Law makes it impossible to know for sure, but I'm going to assume that Dragonslayer is a troll that doesn't actually believe the things he says. It's just easier that way.

 

[Skwim]

The evidence is common sense, it doesn't take much grey matter to figure out that the commandment is referring to murder. It's the only possible logical conclusion, any other interpretation wouldn't make any sense.

Common sense? You say one should use common sense when reading the Bible? That's a joke. Simply consider how much common sense is demonstrated in the following Biblical pronouncements:

"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"A *****ed shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21)

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

"Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother." (Mark 12:19)

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus 26:27-30)

"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18)

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

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Nope, when the scholars and translators of English language Bibles chose to use "kill" instead of the available "murder," it was because they didn't think "murder" conveyed the proper meaning of râtsach, רָצַח, whereas "kill" did. It's as simple as that.

.

 

[Vaderecta]

2500, 2300, 2300, 2400, 2400, 2300, 400, 2500, 2500, 2500, 2300, ~3000.

No 1000 years ago there. There were probably some Muslims doing useful stuff 1000 years ago, but not much else.

And, yes - I'm being pedantic.

Did you know those off the top of your head or did you look them up? Either way impressive and I was going with Epic Rap Battles for the most part. (Thought I would get called out on that)

Granted the list from a 1000 years ago is much smaller... I wonder what would have been going on. Did this age have a name?

Thomas Aquinas had some interesting conclusions and thoughts, Maimonides considered the problem of evil... almost like a medieval Pinker lol. (Except Pinker is probably far more influential and has rapidly become one of my current heroes. And Yuval Harari... he might be my current religion... Incredibly intelligent.)

One thing I don't get about your argument is what does age have to do with it? (1000 vs 2000 seems to be important to you....)

My point was you might like this religion but give it time and it will die off or get replaced. They all do at some point. But actual knowledge that adds to society seems to transcend time and stays with us. (Calculus is not a religious idea, just invented a few times and incredibly useful) Fighting about Donald Trump and ruining a thanksgiving might seem like something really important to people but is it? What angle are you coming at this?

Surely I should get partial credit for Newton? Scientology is a brand new religion like Mormonism and has a completely different set of beliefs. Tom Cruise, Travolta etc... The really rich people dig it therefore it must be true.

Most people are not doing anything that will be remembered in 2000 years but feel like their actions and beliefs are so vital and important and if we ignore them we are minimizing them or somehow committing some form of social injustice.

Some random examples:

How could you ignore this facebook post? It was the most important thing in my life I have done!

I spoke up in congregation yesterday and it was the hardest thing I have ever done but now its out there and the world is changed.

End random examples.

Some people really think they are the center of the universe and whatever they do really matters. My point was there are things people can do that will really matter but most people are not interested in doing those things. (This will not stop them from coming to your door and telling you about the Miracle of Jehovah or Joseph Smith and how they are sacrificing to spread the truth... even though shortly no one will believe those things anymore and they are just wasting their time because they are seeking something spiritual and important and picking low hanging fruit. My dad thought this was important, I'll make my dad happy and change the world or whatever)

There is a real hunger for deeper meaning in this life and it can be filled in many ways. Just like when you get hungry you can cook a healthy meal or swing by mcdonalds on your way home.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It's only a request by the Mormon church that non-Mormons not call Mormons, "Mormons," or the Mormon Church the "Mormon Church." Mormon Church leader Russell Nelson has no power to disallow anyone outside its membership from calling Mormons, "Mormons," or the Mormon Church the "Mormon Church."



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Where does the word "Mormon" come from in the first place, anyone know?

 

[Dragonslayer]

Common sense? You say one should use common sense when reading the Bible? That's a joke. Simply consider how much common sense is demonstrated in the following Biblical pronouncements:

"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"A *****ed shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21)

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

"Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother." (Mark 12:19)

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus 26:27-30)

"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18)

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

​

Nope, when the scholars and translators of English language Bibles chose to use "kill" instead of the available "murder," it was because they didn't think "murder" conveyed the proper meaning of râtsach, רָצַח, whereas "kill" did. It's as simple as that.

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Context is everything when it comes to interpreting the Bible, so it wouldn't matter how many times the word kill appears in in other verses you can't apply the meaning to the word when it is used in the commandment.

I don't know what your trying to say here, but I hope you don't mean that the commandment forbids killing period as the would be perverting the intended meaning in the context of the commandments.

As for your remark about common sense, you should remember that Gods Word as we have it in the Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing. Gods Word cannot be understood by anyone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, Gods Word is a spiritual message which can only be spiritually discerned. So the carnal man does not and neither can he receive Gods Word.

God deliberately chose to record His Word in such a way that only His elect would understand it, He deliberately hides it's meaning from the reprobate and the unbelievers. The Bible says that "they shall seek and not find", "they will listen but not hear", "they shall look but not see". God hides the truth from those who are not of His elect.

So you should consider what the Bible says about the Bible before you apply your view and conclusion to the meaning of scripture. Those who have the gift of discernment enjoy being edified by the truth of the Scriptures, it is a light to our feet and we will never stumble because we have the light of truth to guide us into all righteousness.

 

[Katzpur]

Where does the word "Mormon" come from in the first place, anyone know?

Yes, it comes from our belief in a volume of scripture known as "The Book of Mormon." As Latter-day Saints, we believe the Bible to be the word of God, but do not believe it to be the sole word of God. We believe that God has said much more than has been assembled in that single volume and that He is still not through speaking to us. The Bible, of course, contains both the Old Testament and the New Testament, the New Testament being a witness to the divine mission of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon is yet another testament of Jesus Christ. It is the history, both religious and secular of several groups of people whom we believe we led by God to the American continent in ancient times. By far the largest portion of the book describes two civilizations, the Nephites and the Lamanites, who were both descendants of the House of Israel, and who lived on this continent between about 600 B.C. and 400 A.D.

When Jesus Christ spoke to his followers in the Holy Land, He is recorded in the Gospel of John as having said, “Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” He also said that His own personal mission was only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So who were the “other sheep” of whom He spoke, people who were evidently not living in the Holy Land but who were, at the same time, of the house of Israel? We believe they were the people whose story is told in the Book of Mormon. After Christ’s resurrection, he stayed among his Apostles and others for a time. But, according to the Book of Mormon, before He returned to heaven where He now awaits the time of His Second Coming, He visited the people of ancient America. He established His Church here, teaching exactly the same gospel of love, forgiveness and mercy He had taught in the Holy Land.

The Book of Mormon is an account of a 1000-year history of some of the people of ancient America, and includes a number of chapters which describe in some detail Jesus Christ’s ministry among those people. It does not contradict or supplant anything in the Bible. Rather it complements and clarifies many of the doctrines to which the Bible alludes but is not entirely clear. Its purpose is literally to prove the Bible to be true, and, as stated on the title page of the book is “to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ.”

The book gets its name from a Nephite prophet, military general, and record keeper in the Book of Mormon. Mormon lived about 311–385 A.D. The people whose story is told in The Book of Mormon recorded their religious and secular history. Mormon abridged the record and turned them over to his son, Moroni. It is from The Book of Mormon that we got this nickname.

 

[Vaderecta]

Where does the word "Mormon" come from in the first place, anyone know?

Do you not have google where you live?

 

[Shad]

Where does the word "Mormon" come from in the first place, anyone know?

It is based on the belief in the Book of Mormon itself. It would be like calling all Muslims Quranists (different than Quran only Muslims) due to the belief in the text. Christians would be Biblicalists (again not the same as the group(s) use the term now)

 

[Skwim]

I don't know what your trying to say here, but I hope you don't mean that the commandment forbids killing period as the would be perverting the intended meaning in the context of the commandments.

To repeat myself, I'm saying that when the scholars and translators of English language Bibles chose to use "kill" instead of the available "murder," it was because they didn't think "murder" conveyed the proper meaning of râtsach, רָצַח, whereas "kill" did. It's as simple as that.

As for your remark about common sense, you should remember that Gods Word as we have it in the Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing. Gods Word cannot be understood by anyone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, Gods Word is a spiritual message which can only be spiritually discerned. So the carnal man does not and neither can he receive Gods Word.

Yeah I've heard this lame old excuse before---privileged understanding---It didn't sell then and it doesn't sell now.

God deliberately chose to record His Word in such a way that only His elect would understand it, He deliberately hides it's meaning from the reprobate and the unbelievers. The Bible says that "they shall seek and not find", "they will listen but not hear", "they shall look but not see". God hides the truth from those who are not of His elect.

Yeah I've heard this lame old excuse before---privileged understanding---It didn't sell then and it still doesn't sell now.

.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Do you not have google where you live?

Do you not have discussion forums where you live?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The commandment, "thou shall not kill" actually refers to murder. So it means thou shall not murder, killing is permitted in certain circumstances such as self defense and preemptive killing when the enemy is trying to kill you.

That claim is tenuous at best. It's also incredibly hypocritical as you've previously advocated murdering people merely for contradicting your religious beliefs.

You must rebuke anyone as a false prophet (we stoned false prophets and we should still do it) who comes and claims that they heard extra revelation from God.

The commandment not to murder was given to individuals but the government or rulers have an obligation to execute criminals who commit certain crimes. So it's not our job as individual believers to take the law into our own hands, that job must be left to the civil authorities.

That's quite the creative interpretation. As mentioned by others, the linguistics of the Torah (which the Old Testament is derived from) disagree with you. Even if this were the case; execution is still murder because governments are made up of individuals who pass sentences and carry them out.

The law was written using the Holy Bible as it's foundation in Western countries,

Perhaps most of them; but not all. That would certainly explain why slavery was legal in European countries until the 19th Century.

but with the passing of time they have succumbed to the pressure of the progressive left wing extremists who demanded that the law accepts mortal sins like Sodomy and Adultery and the killing of innocent children in the mothers womb.

Hahaha. Was it left wing extremists who campaigned for the abolition of the slave trade? And what exactly is your position on abortion? You bemoan it with one post but justify it with another - just as you do with killing.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Dragonslayer.

God is not mocked because everyone will have to give an account for every single sin they ever committed. So we don't go to war against our government because we know that will punish them much more severely than we ever could.

That is a terrible excuse for sitting on your hands. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good man to stand by and do nothing." By not resisting a tyrant you're allowing them to get away with what they do.

Christ may return today, everyone will see Him when He returns with His army of Angels. He is coming back to wage a war against the workers of iniquity.

Like a broken record every day for the last two millennia. Christ said he would return in his Apostles' lifetimes. He didn't.

 

[Dragonslayer]

To repeat myself, I'm saying that when the scholars and translators of English language Bibles chose to use "kill" instead of the available "murder," it was because they didn't think "murder" conveyed the proper meaning of râtsach, רָצַח, whereas "kill" did. It's as simple as that.

Yeah I've heard this lame old excuse before---privileged understanding---It didn't sell then and it doesn't sell now.


Yeah I've heard this lame old excuse before---privileged understanding---It didn't sell then and it still doesn't sell now.

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I've heard it said before that any reprobate can understand the Bible, but Gods Word says they never did from the begging and they never will in the future. I will continue to believe in Gods word as it was spoken, and leave fallen men to their folly.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The left wing Communists, also known as "Socialists" and more recently "Humanists" are all the same wicked people wearing different masks.

*eyeroll*

It was the Christians who campaigned and succeed in abolishing slavery so I will take credit for that. We also take credit fro giving the world hospitals and charity organisations, while the loony left can take credit for the murder of 160 million people during the 20th century alone.

How many people did Christians kill the same century? How many did they kill the century before?

I will remind you that the leftists stem from Darwinism which is tantamount to Satanism.

*eyeroll*

The Bible is very clear, we must execute people who commit certain types of sins such as "ABORTION" which is simply sacrificing children to Satan. The Bible describes ABORTION as sacrificing children to Demons. So those who commit this wicked act should be executed, because they are going to burn in hell forever anyway.

Chapter and verse saying abortion is "sacrificing children"?

Christians are all law abiding citizens, we respect our President and His Government, even if we don't agree with many of their policies. We don't rebel against our rulers, unless they force us to do something that's against Gods laws which always take the highest priority with us.

Well, at least that makes a nice change from the usual "this country was founded as a Christian nation" nonsense.

I think you have a distorted view of who Christians are, we are the backbone of a free and democratic society. We gave you the peace, prosperity and freedom that you enjoy today. Your problem is you have been spoiled by the blessing you enjoy in the Christian west. You would have a very rude awaking if you found yourself under an Islamic or Communist law.

Given the number of people you want to execute for "sin", perhaps you could explain how Islamic or Communist countries would be worse? Because your theoretical theocracy sounds far more oppressive than all but the most extreme Islamic or Communist countries.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Granted the list from a 1000 years ago is much smaller... I wonder what would have been going on. Did this age have a name?

The Dark Ages. During which time, by the way, Islam was busy being intellectual and saving a huge amount of early Greek, Latin and even Christian literature for posterity.

Can't think why they stopped doing that, it was so very enlightened for the time...

 

[Watchmen]

90%-95% of it is either flat out wrong or is kind of a caricature. Very little of it is accurate. But as far as it being "banned," that's nonsense. The Church never "bans" books or articles or plays or movies or TV shows or stupid cartoons. (I realize that right there on the video, it says, "banned Mormon cartoon." And of course, if that's what it says, it must be right. )
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Come on, Katz. The “Brethern” tell members to stay away from this stuff all the time. A de facto ban.