Banning ‘Woke’ Words in State Documents, Arkansas Governor Signs Executive Order

[SkepticThinker]

We're debating public policy that impacts, what, 150 million women? Your team has provided one study that suggests that there is no problem. On such an important topic, you ought to have many studies and probably a few meta-studies to point to.

We gave you those. You've dismissed them and mischaracterized them.

Again, your team is making extraordinary and extremely consequential claims. I know you'd like to shift the burden to me, but that's not how it works.

Let me ask you again, in your opinion, how many assaults would be too many? Or does it not matter? Can endless assaults happen as long as a tiny number of trans women are accommodated? How much privacy can be suspended?

Do. You. Have. Any. Data. Backing. Up. Your. Claims?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Nope. To refresh, the poll indicated that:

A majority of voters would support a law requiring public institutions to allow transgender people to use bathrooms that align with their gender identity or stated sex, according to the latest Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll.

The survey found 54 percent support for such a law, with a plurality, 44 percent, saying the Supreme Court should rule on the matter rather than leaving it up to the states, at 34 percent, or Congress, at 20 percent. Fifty-two percent of respondents said they would support a Supreme Court ruling finding that transgender people have a constitutional right to use a bathroom that aligns with their identity. ...

"There is also a gender gap, with 54 percent of men saying transgender people should use the bathroom of their birth sex and 54 percent of women saying transgender people should be able to use the bathroom that best aligns with their identity."

The article didn't say anything about that indicated that "47% OF A LARGE SAMPLE SIZE had negative feelings."
We all know you're trying to harken back to this "dread" you keep bringing up but can't seem to demonstrate.

*Gasp!*

Icehorse, deliberately misrepresenting facts??

Say it ain't so!

 

[icehorse]

I don't think I've ever even used the word transphobic in the entire time I've been posting here.

But if you want that to be your excuse for not posting good evidence for your claims, then have at it, I guess.

Well just yesterday on a related thread your team demonstrated - again, and quite predictably - their inability to separate the message from the messenger.

As for evidence, I provided a link on the bubba thread. Now I don't think this evidence is perfect. But I don't think yours is either. The number of people identifying as trans has exploded over the last few years. That WILL change how society reacts. So the evidence your team is relying so heavily on is already out of date.

So that leaves us with logic and common sense. Men assault women - A LOT. Common sense should tell you that if it becomes NORMAL to see people who look like men - be they trans or not - entering women's safe spaces, then bad men WILL take advantage of that new norm. That's just how bad men operate, and it's not rocket science.

 

[icehorse]

Should I bring up the "puberty blockers = chemical castration" thread again?

Absorb these two links, and get back to me:

‘Gender-Affirming Care Is Dangerous. I Know Because I Helped Pioneer It.’

https://www.*****ute.com/video/AEFZv6dqtERN/

oh my, the 2nd link got *****. the missing word starts with b and is sometimes used to describe a female dog, a b##ch, sigh.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So that leaves us with logic and common sense. Men assault women - A LOT. Common sense should tell you that if it becomes NORMAL to see people who look like men - be they trans or not - entering women's safe spaces, then bad men WILL take advantage of that new norm. That's just how bad men operate, and it's not rocket science.

Do you have any evidence that trans-inclusive bathroom bills lead to a rise in instances of abuse of bathrooms?

Yes or no?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Absorb these two links, and get back to me:

No.

Are puberty blockers chemically castrating children, yes or no?

 

[icehorse]

No. Own up to your dishonesty.

Are puberty blockers chemically castrating children, yes or no?

see post #684

Do you have any evidence that trans-inclusive bathroom bills lead to a rise in instances of abuse of bathrooms?

Yes or no?

see post #683

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well just yesterday on a related thread your team demonstrated - again, and quite predictably - their inability to separate the message from the messenger.

Huh?

As for evidence, I provided a link on the bubba thread

I don't know what "the bubba thread" is.
Did you post it on this thread?

. Now I don't think this evidence is perfect. But I don't think yours is either.

Who said anything about perfection?

The number of people identifying as trans has exploded over the last few years. That WILL change how society reacts. So the evidence your team is relying so heavily on is already out of date.

So, you think the available evidence, that includes a decades-long study across several different cities, is out of date because you think that "people identifying as trans has exploded over the last few years?" Can you elaborate?

So that leaves us with logic and common sense. Men assault women - A LOT. Common sense should tell you that if it becomes NORMAL to see people who look like men - be they trans or not - entering women's safe spaces, then bad men WILL take advantage of that new norm. That's just how bad men operate, and it's not rocket science.

Oh boy, back to this call to "common sense."
Do you have any data, or not?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

see post #684

It's a yes or no question.

see post #683

It's a yes or no question.

 

[Revoltingest]

What I've been saying is that biological men should not enter women's safe spaces.

I don't recall if you've answered.
Do you believe that a trans woman ("biological man")
should not be allowed to enter a women's lavatory,
& should instead use the men's room...including "men"
such as....

 

[Soandso]

I don't recall if you've answered.
Do you believe that a trans woman ("biological man")
should not be allowed to enter a women's lavatory,
& should instead use the men's room...including "men"
such as....

Prepare for the "they should get their own restrooms" non-answer. That's what I got from them, at least

@icehorse What I'm curious about is if it's ok for trans men to use men's facilities, or if they should get their own restrooms too. 4 sets of restrooms or just 3?

 

[icehorse]

How about trans women?

As I've said before, this is a thorny problem. But I would say - AGAIN - that we should dismiss zero-sum solutions, and discuss only win-win solutions.

So for the sake of discussion, let's say that there are no safety concerns. I think there are, but for the sake of discussion, let's take that off the table.

We're still left with privacy concerns. Women fought for decades to have women-only spaces. For privacy and for security. So the solution you're defending constitutes a loss of privacy for women. That puts that solution in the zero-sum category.

We can do better than that. We can help trans people without negatively impacting women. Those are the constraints of the problem to be solved.

 

[icehorse]

Prepare for the "they should get their own restrooms" non-answer. That's what I got from them, at least

@icehorse What I'm curious about is if it's ok for trans men to use men's facilities, or if they should get their own restrooms too. 4 sets of restrooms or just 3?

Yet another thorny question. Again, the problem solving approach must discard zero-sum solutions. But specifically in this case I would worry for the safety of trans men, wouldn't you? If you wouldn't I think you have to go back to the idea that in general society is okay with punching up, and we realize that punching down is a problem.

 

[icehorse]

I don't recall if you've answered.
Do you believe that a trans woman ("biological man")
should not be allowed to enter a women's lavatory,
& should instead use the men's room...including "men"
such as....

Does this person still have male genitalia? If so, he should not expose his male bits in a women's locker room. If for no other reason than out of respect for women.

 

[icehorse]

So, you think the available evidence, that includes a decades-long study across several different cities, is out of date because you think that "people identifying as trans has exploded over the last few years?" Can you elaborate?

If there was 1 trans woman in the world, then clearly that would not impact safety. If there were 1 billion, much in society would change. Again, sorry to be falling back on that old "common sense" thing

As this becomes more common, more bad men will see an opportunity.

 

[Soandso]

Yet another thorny question. Again, the problem solving approach must discard zero-sum solutions. But specifically in this case I would worry for the safety of trans men, wouldn't you? If you wouldn't I think you have to go back to the idea that in general society is okay with punching up, and we realize that punching down is a problem.

Who's punching anyone? When I use the restroom, I'm just trying to go in and do my business and then leave after washing my hands. I'm not interested in talking or interacting with folks. If I see this guy walk in and use the restroom too, I really don't care

But again I ask, is it ok in your opinion for trans men to use mens rooms?

 

[icehorse]

Who's punching anyone?

Have you really not heard the general (not literally punching) expressions "punching up" and "punching down" ?

If you haven't, it's a very useful concept, easily searchable on the internet.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Does this person still have male genitalia? If so, he should not expose his male bits in a women's locker room. If for no other reason than out of respect for women.

You didn't answer the question. You answered a different question instead.

If there was 1 trans woman in the world, then clearly that would not impact safety. If there were 1 billion, much in society would change. Again, sorry to be falling back on that old "common sense" thing

As this becomes more common, more bad men will see an opportunity.

So you claim ....

 

[icehorse]

You didn't answer the question. You answered a different question instead.

Again, with jazz hands, we have a thorny problem to solve. I've explained the constraints I think we should use to solve the problem.

I do not have a solution, it's a thorny problem. But in no way does that mean the current solution is satisfactory.

I bet if I paid you $10 per instance, you could easily list hundreds of problems for which we do not - yet - have good solutions. In no way does that imply that we cannot criticize the current solutions. That's often how we come up with better solutions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Again, with jazz hands, we have a thorny problem to solve. I've explained the constraints I think we should use to solve the problem.

You're the one who threw up the jazz hands.

The question was, "I don't recall if you've answered.
Do you believe that a trans woman ("biological man")
should not be allowed to enter a women's lavatory,
& should instead use the men's room...including "men"
such as...."

And then there was a photo of a person who looks like a woman.

Since we don't check the genitals of people entering rest rooms and it doesn't sound like you want to be checking the genitals of people entering rest rooms, then your question about what genitals the person has is rendered moot, wouldn't you say?

I do not have a solution, it's a thorny problem. But in no way does that mean the current solution is satisfactory.

I bet if I paid you $10 per instance, you could easily list hundreds of problems for which we do not - yet - have good solutions. In no way does that imply that we cannot criticize the current solutions. That's often how we come up with better solutions.

Who says you can't criticize anything?