Baptism as a public declaration and "spirit of Jezebel"

[Desert Snake]

The fact is, 'baptize the nations', either has to have a affect that is outside individual baptism, or, baptism is specific, and non required.

Can't argue that baptism is required, without acknowledging that. Thusly 'baptize the nations', would or should be a type of baptism, otherwise you've got a real contradiction in scripture.

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Also why, the bible doesn't just say that individual baptism is required.

 

[Desert Snake]

Basically, a literal reading of scripture, individual baptism isn't required.

Which makes sense, anyways, because a requirement takes you back to an inferred affect, ie "saved via baptism", which makes it a "magic rite", or "magic ceremony", separate from the theism, so forth.

 

[Desert Snake]

The only other option, is a "magic ceremony", that is totally outside the actual theism, so forth, thusly making anything else just a set of religious suggestions.

 

[e.r.m.]

The fact is, 'baptize the nations', either has to have a affect that is outside individual baptism, or, baptism is specific, and non required.

Can't argue that baptism is required, without acknowledging that. Thusly 'baptize the nations', would or should be a type of baptism, otherwise you've got a real contradiction in scripture.

Jesus didn't say baptize the named. He said make disciples of all nations, baptizing them... It makes more sense that He's referring to baptize the disciples that they make in these nations as per the command, as they did at Pentecost and beyond. Throughout the New Testament, you see them baptizing people. It is never mentioned that they in some way baptize a 'nation'.

Also why, the bible doesn't just say that individual baptism is required.

It does. Peter took this command from Jesus and said
Acts 2:38-39 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every ONE of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [39] The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off---for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

He saw it as baptize people. Nothing fancy or double meaning about it.

 

[e.r.m.]

The only other option, is a "magic ceremony", that is totally outside the actual theism, so forth, thusly making anything else just a set of religious suggestions.

It played out as them baptizing folk from these nations.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus didn't say baptize the named. He said make disciples of all nations, baptizing them... It makes more sense that He's referring to baptize the disciples that they make in these nations as per the command, as they did at Pentecost and beyond. Throughout the New Testament, you see them baptizing people. It is never mentioned that they in some way baptize a 'nation'.

It does. Peter took this command from Jesus and said
Acts 2:38-39 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every ONE of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [39] The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off---for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

He saw it as baptize people. Nothing fancy or double meaning about it.

That is referring to specific people. You are interpreting it to mean everyone. One of the general mistakes concerning baptism.

 

[Desert Snake]

It played out as them baptizing folk from these nations.

True. However we are not talking about generalities.

 

[e.r.m.]

That is referring to specific people. You are interpreting it to mean everyone. One of the general mistakes concerning baptism.

I'll cite the same passage and highlight an additional area.
Acts 2:38-39 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every ONE of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [39] The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off---for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Peter took what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19/Mark 16:16 and in Luke 24:47 and turned it into what he said above.
Not interpreting, just reading.

 

[e.r.m.]

True. However we are not talking about generalities.

Would you elaborate please? Thank you.

 

[Muffled]

Thank you for replying. Do you mean Ananias? At least it's a derived concept by someone in the Bible, whereas baptism as a testimony is not a Biblical derived concept.​

How so? He already confessed the Lord Jesus and believed in him by this point Acts 22:8,10, yet he still needed his sins washed away. How did he not need to get baptized, if Ananias prescribed baptism calling on Jesus name to do just that? Did he not need his sins washed away? And did Jesus just command it without a reason, did he say "Just do it" ? One difference between the belief system you ascribe to and the scriptures is that the scriptures don't just say it's commanded, they say why it's commanded Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38-39, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:4-7, Galatians 3:26-27, etc. There's never a testimony reason for getting baptized mentioned in any of the scriptures. At least having sins washed away is mentioned.

With all due respect, this isn't evidence. This is just expressing your belief of what happened.
You stated your belief that you were saved before your sins are washed believe you were saved before your sins were washed away. do you believe a person to save them before their sins are washed away?

Is there an operation at work aside from what's written in scripture? Can you explain how this all works through scripture? From what I'm seeing Acts 22:8-16 throws a serious monkey wrench into "just" believe and confess which Romans 10 doesn't say.
What am I not understanding?

I believe I was and not only that my sins weren't washed away until after I was baptized. I had repented my sin long before I was saved but I didn't realize that I was guilty of the sins I committed. It was at that time that Jesus provided the fact that my sins were washed away by His blood to remove the guilt.

I believe what happened explains a lot. A person who misunderstands the Bible will fail to see that.

I believe I can.

I believe you need to work on your understanding of efficacy ie what works. Baptism does not work to remove sins. Peter made that as plain as day.