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Become a muslim in three days or die
- Thread starter Anthem
- Start date
Probably not. In places where Sharia is active it's possible you will be beaten for acts which insult the religion. While death is certainly on the books, it's not very common except in the most extreme areas. If you can keep your mouth shut though, they'll probably just ignore you.
Anthem
Active Member
But if you go and get yourself out ya know.
stvdv
Veteran Member
You heard about it, I heard about it, so there is enough truth in it already to be very careful/sure to convert to Islam. Needs only one fanatic to kill you.
Also, sharia is pretty damn nebulous -- like two areas don't necessarily believe in exactly the same interpretation of it. It makes it hard to come up with generalizations.
TBH, in most cases nothing will happen. You're just not worth the time. Now, if you're gay or cheating on your husband that's a different story. If you're just trying Islam they're not going to consider you a Muslim so probably wouldn't give a damn.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
The answer is more complex and often cited as a black and white answer according to those who hate Islam so allow me to offer a more academic approach to the issue. To answer why apostasy (irtidād) is taken so seriously we need to begin with the Natural state of Islam, that is, the idea that all human beings are born with an innate sense of belief in God. When it comes to apostasy, in Islam, apostasy is seen in equivalence to treason of the faith. In western society treason in this sense is limited to political/national alliegence. Ironically the idea of treason even defined in estern terms has been stretched to include non-political and non-military matters as well as one author notes:
"In England, treason includes violating the King's consort, or raping the monarch's eldest married daughter, as well as the sexual violation of the wife of the eldest son and heir. Even now, "polluting" the Royal bloodline or obscuring it is included in the definition of treason."
See: Professor Ali Mazrui, The Satanic Verse or a Satanic Novel, p. 4-5
Just as undertaking upholding the constitution of the United States is a sign of patriotism, and undermining it would be treasonous which is the same way as one who openly rejects Islam. Author and scholar Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi writes in the following:
"It must be emphasized that the irtidād that we are discussing here involves open rejection, without any force and with full realization of what one's statements or actions imply. If a Muslim has a genuine doubt on an Islamic matter, that process of doubting does not automatically classify him as a murtad.
A murtad must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means--casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God.
The punishment prescribed by the shari`ah for apostasy is death.
Even the terms used by the shari`ah for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli."
Here the scholar notes the distinctions:
(1) "Murtad Fitri" means a person who is born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. "Fitrah" means creation. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostate from the faith in which he was born.
(2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means religion. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his religion and the Muslim community.
"In the first case, the apostasy is like the treason against God; whereas in the second case, the apostasy is like the treason against the Muslim community. Probably, that is why the Sh`iah jurisprudence deals with these two kinds of murtads differently.
The following is the legal distribution of justice in accordance to Shari'ah Law concerning apostasy:
• A former kāfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (murtad milli), he is given a second chance: if he repents, then he is not to be killed; but if he does not repent, then he is to be killed.
• But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (murtad fitri), he is to be killed even if he repents. It is important to understand that in case a murtad fitri repents, Allāh may accept his repentance and he may be forgiven in the hereafter, but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.
This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women, the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is lifted.'
However according to the scholar, if the murtad is to meet their punishment in Daru el-Islam (The Muslim World) but flees to Daru el-Kufr (The abode of the kufr), then they are not to be pursued (Shaykh al-Mufid, al-Muqni`ah (Qum: Jami`a Mudarrisin, 1410) pl 781; Ibn Hamzah at-Tusi, al-Wasilah ila Nayli 'l-Fadilah (Qum: Maktaba as-Sayyid al-Mar`ashi, 1408) p. 424-5; Muhaqqiq al-Hilli, Sharā'i` al-Islām, vol. 4 (Tehran: al-Istiqlāl, 1409) p. 961-2.).
According to the punishment of apostasy, scholars note sources from Hadith as we see int he following example:
"Shaykh al-Kulayni narrates a sahāh (correct) hadith from `Ammār as-Sābāti who said: I heard (Imam) Abu `Abdullāh (as-Sādiq) (a.s.) saying, "A Muslim from among the Muslims who renounces Islam and rejects the prophethood of Muhammad and considers him untrue, then verily his blood is lawful (mubāh) for anyone who hears that from him, his wife is to be separated from him the day he became murtad, his wealth will be divided among his heirs, and his wife will observe the`idda of a widow (i.e., four months). The Imam is obliged to kill him, and not ask him to seek forgiveness."
Source: Furu al-Kāfi, vol. 7, p. 257. This hadith has also been quoted by Shaykh as-Sadāq, Man la Yahdhuruhu al-Faqāh,vol. 3, p.89, and Shaykh at-Tusi, Tahdhibu 'l-Ahkām, vol. 10, p. 136
Remember the idea of three days (or a set number of days) are to allow the individual to repent for their thought of rejecting Islam. From a religious point of viewthis is meant as a form to mitigate any thoughts that might arise due to personal circumstances such as being in a tragedy and blaming God and the religion for said tragedy. Often times people become disbelievers based on unfortunate negative circumstances. The period of three days is meant to give the individual time to reason their way out of being considered a murtad.
Apostasy is not like how we view apostasy here in the western world as this free endeavor to disbelieve in God, rather it would appear as an injustice of sorts against God and community. Although the Qur'an highlights the punishment in the hereafter, when looking at the punishment of apostasy, depending on the jurispredence that is considered to meet out punishment, the sunnah is considered.
"In England, treason includes violating the King's consort, or raping the monarch's eldest married daughter, as well as the sexual violation of the wife of the eldest son and heir. Even now, "polluting" the Royal bloodline or obscuring it is included in the definition of treason."
See: Professor Ali Mazrui, The Satanic Verse or a Satanic Novel, p. 4-5
Just as undertaking upholding the constitution of the United States is a sign of patriotism, and undermining it would be treasonous which is the same way as one who openly rejects Islam. Author and scholar Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi writes in the following:
"It must be emphasized that the irtidād that we are discussing here involves open rejection, without any force and with full realization of what one's statements or actions imply. If a Muslim has a genuine doubt on an Islamic matter, that process of doubting does not automatically classify him as a murtad.
A murtad must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means--casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God.
The punishment prescribed by the shari`ah for apostasy is death.
Even the terms used by the shari`ah for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli."
Here the scholar notes the distinctions:
(1) "Murtad Fitri" means a person who is born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. "Fitrah" means creation. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostate from the faith in which he was born.
(2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means religion. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his religion and the Muslim community.
"In the first case, the apostasy is like the treason against God; whereas in the second case, the apostasy is like the treason against the Muslim community. Probably, that is why the Sh`iah jurisprudence deals with these two kinds of murtads differently.
The following is the legal distribution of justice in accordance to Shari'ah Law concerning apostasy:
• A former kāfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (murtad milli), he is given a second chance: if he repents, then he is not to be killed; but if he does not repent, then he is to be killed.
• But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (murtad fitri), he is to be killed even if he repents. It is important to understand that in case a murtad fitri repents, Allāh may accept his repentance and he may be forgiven in the hereafter, but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.
This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women, the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is lifted.'
However according to the scholar, if the murtad is to meet their punishment in Daru el-Islam (The Muslim World) but flees to Daru el-Kufr (The abode of the kufr), then they are not to be pursued (Shaykh al-Mufid, al-Muqni`ah (Qum: Jami`a Mudarrisin, 1410) pl 781; Ibn Hamzah at-Tusi, al-Wasilah ila Nayli 'l-Fadilah (Qum: Maktaba as-Sayyid al-Mar`ashi, 1408) p. 424-5; Muhaqqiq al-Hilli, Sharā'i` al-Islām, vol. 4 (Tehran: al-Istiqlāl, 1409) p. 961-2.).
According to the punishment of apostasy, scholars note sources from Hadith as we see int he following example:
"Shaykh al-Kulayni narrates a sahāh (correct) hadith from `Ammār as-Sābāti who said: I heard (Imam) Abu `Abdullāh (as-Sādiq) (a.s.) saying, "A Muslim from among the Muslims who renounces Islam and rejects the prophethood of Muhammad and considers him untrue, then verily his blood is lawful (mubāh) for anyone who hears that from him, his wife is to be separated from him the day he became murtad, his wealth will be divided among his heirs, and his wife will observe the`idda of a widow (i.e., four months). The Imam is obliged to kill him, and not ask him to seek forgiveness."
Source: Furu al-Kāfi, vol. 7, p. 257. This hadith has also been quoted by Shaykh as-Sadāq, Man la Yahdhuruhu al-Faqāh,vol. 3, p.89, and Shaykh at-Tusi, Tahdhibu 'l-Ahkām, vol. 10, p. 136
Remember the idea of three days (or a set number of days) are to allow the individual to repent for their thought of rejecting Islam. From a religious point of viewthis is meant as a form to mitigate any thoughts that might arise due to personal circumstances such as being in a tragedy and blaming God and the religion for said tragedy. Often times people become disbelievers based on unfortunate negative circumstances. The period of three days is meant to give the individual time to reason their way out of being considered a murtad.
Apostasy is not like how we view apostasy here in the western world as this free endeavor to disbelieve in God, rather it would appear as an injustice of sorts against God and community. Although the Qur'an highlights the punishment in the hereafter, when looking at the punishment of apostasy, depending on the jurispredence that is considered to meet out punishment, the sunnah is considered.
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ecco
Veteran Member
Thank you for the detailed explanation.
It is just one more reason for me to thank god that I'm an atheist.
If you became a Revoltifarian, but then recanted, we have no punishment for you.
But you would be denied the free donuts on Saturday...unless you ask nicely.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Indeed. It is a religion.
The evidence is that it's a totalitarian ideology with a religious facet.
Or a religion with totalitarian consequences.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Back to 1500 years ago, do you think people have IDs and passports and national
records that every individual should record what his religion is?
exchemist
Veteran Member
You are confusing islam the religion with the comparatively recent phenomenon of "political islam", a series of movements regarded by many as a perversion, or hijacking, of the religion for political ends. Don't let the tail wag the dog.
No I'm not. I've read the Quran, I've read biographies of Muhammad, and I've studied a bit of Islamic history. It has ALWAYS been a totalitarian ideology with a religious facet.
exchemist
Veteran Member
History would seem to disagree with you.
Hmmm. Are you saying that Muslim majority countries haven't predominantly been theocratic? I think they have.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Now you explain to me the basis on which you equate theocracy with totalitarianism, and then provide support for your contention that this period in muslim history, which lasted over half a millennium): Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia. was totalitarian.
Nope. A religion is suppose to be, you know, respectable. And to take itself with a modicum of seriousness and self-respect. And to have a working understanding of moral and virtue.
Islaam fulfills none of those conditions.