"Begotten", what does it mean?

[SA Huguenot]

Haven't you got more important things to worry about?
How exactly, does the nature of Jesus affect my behaviour and your behaviour?

Well, as for my life and the Nature of Jesus, I am guaranteed eternal life.
As for your life, well this is what Hesus said.
If you believe in Him, you are guaranteed salvation and everlasting life.
If you dont, you condemn yourself.
John 11: 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 6: 40 "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 3: 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Our choice mate.

 

[SA Huguenot]

omg yeah I know how you think. You can't give the meaning of the word begotten so you must bash it out and criticize ours.

• And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,
• and had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit (Angel Jibril) and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.
• She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah."
• (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."
• She said, ‘How shall I have a child seeing that no human being has ever touched me, nor have I been unchaste?’
• He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).
• He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord says: It is easy to Me; and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter decreed.
• Thereupon he called her from below her [saying,] ‘Do not grieve! Your Lord has made a spring to flow at your feet.
• And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you; it will drop on you fresh ripe-dates.
• So eat and drink thou, and cool thine eyes; and if thou beholdest the human beings anyone, say: verily I have vowed to the Compassionate a fast, so I shall not speak today to any human being.
• And she came to her people carrying him. (Her people) said: “O Mary! Surely you have done a strange (bad) thing”.
• O sister of Aaron! Your father was not a wicked man, nor was your mother an unchaste woman.
• Then she pointed to him (baby). (They) said: “How should we speak to one who is a baby in the cradle”?
• (Baby) said: “Surely I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book and made me a prophet”.
• And be dutiful to my mother. He has made me haughty or rebellious.
• And peace be upon me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the Day I am raised up to life alive.
• That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting.

How Maryam got pregnant in Islam

“And she who guarded her chastity [Virgin Maryam (Mary)], We breathed into her [through Our Rooh Jibreel (Gabriel)]” [al-Anbiya’ 21:91]
The verse does not say how he did it and no one has the right to say otherwise.

Just like the likeness of Adam “So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me . [Saad 38:72]

“The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him” [an-Nisaa’ 4:171]

اِنَّمَاۤ اَمۡرُهٗۤ اِذَاۤ اَرَادَ شَیْـئًـا اَنۡ يَّقُوۡلَ لَهٗ كُنۡ فَيَكُوۡنُ
(36:82) Whenever He wills a thing, He just commands it “Be” and it is.

So you call this filthy??? God forbid what you call the opposite.

Again, you have no right to place the Quran on a position of Authority over the Bible.

I say again, telling me that the Bible is wrong, because the Quran says something else,
is as if you wear sun glasses, and telling me the sun does not shine so bright as I see it.
The Quran has zero authority over the Bible.

Untill such time that we investigated why the Quran gives a totally different version of God, than what the Bible gives, or when Muslims can explain this phenomena that the Quran makes the Bible, YHWH and Jesus out as a corruption, the quran should never be uses as an authority over any Christian belief!
Period!

 

[SA Huguenot]

I have every right to hold the Quran over the Bible if I please. In Islam, Allah perfected the religion and confirmed all the messages went before it. The Bible has many discrepancies in it. Anyone can see that and look into it.

God is above having a son all he has to do is say BE and it is. He doesn't need sons or daughters. In Islam, we don't put God on the same level as man. It isn't befitting God afterall, He created them.

Do you realise that you are making the Quran out as a lying book?
Do you not understand that you are saying Allah is lying?
I do not perceive the Quran as having any value, but if a Muslim tells me that the Quran is his Holiest book, and the word of his god Allah...
Why would he deny that the Quran say that Allah gave the Torah, Injill and Zabur to the world, and why does Allah say no one can change his words?
Muhammad was told that he should go to the Bible and check if he needs to understand something!
And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)

 

[Soapy]

Well, as for my life and the Nature of Jesus, I am guaranteed eternal life.
As for your life, well this is what Hesus said.
If you believe in Him, you are guaranteed salvation and everlasting life.
If you dont, you condemn yourself.
John 11: 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 6: 40 "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 3: 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Our choice mate.

And how is believing in ONLY the Father and the Son (TWO) guaranteeing eternal life when TRINITY says we should believe in THREE to gain eternal life?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..how do you determine what is pure?

I look at all of the Abrahamic scriptures, and piece it together like a jigsaw-puzzle.

So, while Jesus knew the system was corrupt, he knew that God's law was not, and that there was no other source.
Eventually, in God's due time, he would clean house, but while that system existed, God would make his word available to truth seekers.
Jesus used the temple. His apostles did too... until God had it destroyed by the Romans.

G-d did not "have the temple destroyed". It was political. The Roman Empire actively oppressed believers [in Judaism], and due to rebellion decided to punish and oppress them further.
You are right that G-d's law is not corrupt. It is mankind who are corrupt, and interpret "the law" as it suits them .. much like people exploit loopholes in tax law etc.

Interestingly, this was prophesied to happen, two-fold.
God allows the corrupt Empire to stand, and claim authority over his word. For now, she "sits a queen" Revelation 18:7, 8 , but it's only a matter of time, when they too, will crumble... and guess whom God will use to destroy her.
(Revelation 17:16, 17) 16 And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.
Another political system.

I agree entirely with this.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Oh, okay. Do you believe Jesus is the Messiah, as mentioned in the Gospels?

Absolutely.
Muslims believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah [Christ]
The vast majority believe that Jesus will return as the Messiah as per Revelation.
It will be as if he never left the world .. much like a time-traveller, he will be the same person .. the same age as when he ascended to heaven. He will appear in the same manner as he disappeared.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well, as for my life and the Nature of Jesus, I am guaranteed eternal life.
As for your life, well this is what Jesus said.
If you believe in Him, you are guaranteed salvation and everlasting life.

Yes, but many claim that you must believe in Jesus in a specific way.
Do you believe that the so-called Arians are guaranteed eternal salvation?
Why did the Roman politicians make it illegal to believe in Jesus in any other way than what they thought was "correct"?
Is that what Jesus wanted? To oppress their fellow believers who did them no harm other than disagreeing with some of their doctrines?

Why specifically, would so-called Arians not be guaranteed salvation?

 

[MyM]

Are you after a fairy story for children. Bad things happen to good people in every walk of life except where you are afraid to upset child-like ones. The Bible isn’t written to protect children from the realities of life’s badnesses.

Yes, agreed bad things happen to good people, but in Islam, we don't humiliate to our prophets of God, drunkenness and sexual behavior. Why would anyone do that....it's not just that, but to have that in a so called book of God and especially so many sexual acts in the book of Ezekiel about whoredoms who lay with the entire armies and the way it's portrayed....God doesn't talk like that. It's a humiliation for that stuff to be in a book of God.

 

[MyM]

is meant for SA Huguenot

You are NOT one to explain to others about the Quran. You have already proven the point when you tried and did humiliate Allah even after it was explained to you. You continue to bash and say what you want about Allah, his Quran and Muslims. Yet you have no inkling on what Islam is. You just love to humiliate and then when it bites you back, you go and complain as if it is a personal attack on you. You sure can dish it but you can't take it.

Leave Islam alone and go find the reasons why the Bible has mistakes in them. That's what you should be worried about. You believe in a book that is already known and proven to have mistakes in them and you seem to be so proud of it. Then get back to me.

 

[Soapy]

..best not to use the word at all, if there is confusion.
I believe the translators purposely used such words, as they were prone to exaggeration.

The only confusion is with yourself. It seems you are disputing something that no one else is disputing.

The word means, ‘Taking up as if ones own’.

It does not only apply to a HUMAN CREATION. It can be also a SPIRITUAL ADOPTION.

In the Bible you will read of the following:

• A woman (wife) GIVES BIRTH to a Son
• A man (the Husband/Father) BEGETS [that same] Son

That is how the Bible is written. It is the Bible language. A Mother BIRTHS - A Father BEGETS that which is BIRTHED.

No one says that a Man or a Father BIRTHS a child.

The Father ‘Takes up’ the child as being his own.

Could ANY MAN of the biblical times guarantee that the birthed child is his own without strictly limiting the mother to constant supervision?

Therefore the Father is TAKING IT AS BEING THAT HD IS THE FATHER of the child. He is taking up the child as being his! THIS IS A PROCREATED BEGETTING.

And SPIRIT BEGETTING does not involve an actual mother character because the child being taken up (being begetted) is already in existence:

• Ephraim was already alive when God Begot him. God ADOPTED Ephraim
• Onesimus was a fully grown man when Paul begot him as his son. Paul ADOPTED Onesimus
• Jesus was 30 years old when God begot him. God says he has ‘This day [He] has become [Jesus’] Father’

Neither of the above ADOPTEES were ‘fathered’ by their, now, SPIRITUAL FATHER!

 

[Soapy]

Yes, agreed bad things happen to good people, but in Islam, we don't humiliate to our prophets of God, drunkenness and sexual behavior. Why would anyone do that....it's not just that, but to have that in a so called book of God and especially so many sexual acts in the book of Ezekiel about whoredoms who lay with the entire armies and the way it's portrayed....God doesn't talk like that. It's a humiliation for that stuff to be in a book of God.

We are not discussing Islam. We are discussing the Jewish scriptures.

Should we start disclaiming the scriptural miracles because Jedi were not invincible?

And the illegal sexual acts in the Bible are all condemned by God. They are there to serve as examples of wrongful behaviour and the consequences of such wrongful acts.

The Bible exposes virtually all aspects of humanity (yes, including the distasteful things) so no one’s can’t say they didn’t know about this or that!

Satan sinned, and then tried to justify himself. God needs to judge him for ALL the sins so that at the end he cannot say things would be better if this or that were so and so!

 

[muhammad_isa]

The only confusion is with yourself.

If only that were true.

 

[Soapy]

Problem is, in Genesis, the serpent is not “Satan.”

Who is saying that the serpent is Satan?

Thag would be so odd seeing that God deteriorated the serpent down to having no feet and “eating dust all the days of its life”. That certainly is not Satan, a SPIRIT ANGEL.

What the situation was, was that the serpent ALLOWED Satan to use it as the PHYSICAL entity that ‘spoke’ to Eve, and persuaded her to sin.

 

[Soapy]

If only that were true.

That’s what you wish. Reality and truth is somewhat against you (remember that while you are right to despite against TRINITARIANs calling themselves Christians you need to know that I’m talking about the truth - not what TRINITARIAN Christian’s say….. you do know about Trinitarians and that there are OTHER Christian beliefs - one of which is true to the Bible!)

 

[Dogknox20]

Who is saying that the serpent is Satan?

Thag would be so odd seeing that God deteriorated the serpent down to having no feet and “eating dust all the days of its life”. That certainly is not Satan, a SPIRIT ANGEL.

What the situation was, was that the serpent ALLOWED Satan to use it as the PHYSICAL entity that ‘spoke’ to Eve, and persuaded her to sin.

The serpent is Satan...
John is calling the Pharisees and Sadducees Satan's Children!
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

 

[Soapy]

The serpent is Satan...
John is calling the Pharisees and Sadducees Satan's Children!
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

There’s nothing in that verse that suggests Satan EXCEPT that ALL DECEIVERS are OPPSERS TO TRUTH and are therefore SATANS (check the definition of the TITLE, ‘Satan’. And ‘Satan’ IS A TITLE. It is not the NAME of the fallen lead Angel. It is the title of him which can apply to ANYONE who does what this Angel did in his desire to do wrong.
By rights we should always preface like: ‘A Satan’

But regarding the verse; No, it’s just saying that vipers scatter and slither away from wrathful fire, for instance. The people of the time and in such places would be fully aware of broods of vipers and so John uses that analogy so they should be understanding of how disputable their behaviour was.

 

[sojourner]

Who is saying that the serpent is Satan?

Thag would be so odd seeing that God deteriorated the serpent down to having no feet and “eating dust all the days of its life”. That certainly is not Satan, a SPIRIT ANGEL.

What the situation was, was that the serpent ALLOWED Satan to use it as the PHYSICAL entity that ‘spoke’ to Eve, and persuaded her to sin.

Nope. Satan doesn’t appear in the creation myths. The concept of a being called “Satan” first appears in Job, a much later document.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Nope. Satan doesn’t appear in the creation myths.

That's ridiculous.
'satan' has been with us from Adam & Eve.
Why do you think that Cain murdered Abel?
..out of the kindness of his heart?

 

[2ndpillar]

I was asked by a fellow member to explain the word "Begotten" about Jesus in the Bible, because somehow it is a very bad word?

Will, I promised I will discuss this word on another thread, and here it is.

The Christian knows that Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God, and accepts this as fact, but they never question the meaning of how and what this means.

But we can not discuss this concept if we do not have the verses about Jesus being begotten and being the Son of God.
Here are a few.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

OK, so lets see. The word monogenes means "only" (mono) "kind" (genes) (also child)
It is very close to modern words where we know Mono, as one such as "Monotheism" and genes such as genes in DNA.
one, only kind child.

We find it in the OT also:
In Hebrews 11:17 Isaac is called Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

Now that we have the verses, and the meaning, lets get the context.

In the beginning, we see a description that God had a Mind (Word), a Spirit, and an existence living body covered with light. The Spirit of God left the existence of YHWH and hovered above the waters, which means the Spirit could enter into the creation of YHWH.
We also see that the Spirit of YHWH, or as we know Him as the Holy Spirit of God, could come onto people and make their bodies change, such as Samson that became super strong as soon as the Spirit intered his body.
The Spirit came upon Elisha when Elijah annointed him, and he could do magnificent miracles.
Therefore, the Spirit of YHWH can come into creation, and change the human body!

Now we have a description in John about the "Word of God" who was with God in the beginning, and this Word of God created everything.

And God sent His Spirit to Mary and changed her body to become pregnant without intercourse, just as this Spirit changed human attributes before, and a human body was created in Mary, with the "Word of God" in it, which is the Mind of God.
This human was born, and became known as Jesus.
This is the reason why God calls Jesus His only begotten Son.
Jesus was created in the body of Mary by the Holy Spirit of God.
and God's Word left the existence of YHWH, and entered the fetus.

Now, take into consideration:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Conclusion.
God had to save his creation from death, because we are all just dying corpses, and to do that God Himself sent his Mind, that became a Human, to live amongst us.
This is why Christians believe Jesus is God, and why He came as a Human to die!
To be the first to attain an immortal body for us all to follow in this way to eternity.

Therefore, what would you call someone that had a human body, that was created, just as Adam's body, but had the mind of God dwelling in that Body.

One of a Kind, or
Only Begotten Son.

Have you been begotten, born again, and become a son of God, which according to Yeshua is anyone who does the will of God? Are you now without sin? (1 John 3:9)

Mt 12:50 “For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

King James Bible 1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[2ndpillar]

Nope. Satan doesn’t appear in the creation myths. The concept of a being called “Satan” first appears in Job, a much later document.

Satan is defined as the serpent per Revelation 20:2, the same serpent who spoke to Eve. Have you actually ever read the whole bible, or just some talking points?