"Begotten", what does it mean?

[muhammad_isa]

Whoever told you that the trinity was concocted by the Roman Catholic church in 325 (Nicea) and 381 (Constantinopel), is blatantly attempting to deceive you in thinking the Trinity was never known before this time.

You are just getting a "bee in your bonnet", and going on about the trinity.
I said that so-called Arian Emperors did not mercilessly persecute their fellow Christians.
Could it be that they were better than "your lot"?

Oh no .. wait.
You say that all "the others" aren't Christians.
Oh well, at least we know where we stand.
You hate "the others", and persecute them.

 

[Soapy]

Well, nothing was banned pal.
It is still in the Bible as a warning on how God sees people who practices Idolatory!
And remember, this god mentioned was "Ba Allah"
BaAl!
the ancient pagan god of the Midianites, Moabites and Amonites.
These were the ancient Arabic tribes in the East of Palestine.
in 1972 Yagel Yadin discovered a templke to Ba Allah with a cresent and star on his chest.
His name was Hu-Ba Allah!
the pagan name for the Creator is Ba Allah!
What is the name of the God in the Quran.
The one in the Bible is YHWH.
He is not an Idol.

Can I ask? What is this thing that is being spoken about concerning God or prophets having sex with harlots. Which prophets is this about? I know about Lot’s daughter and the resultant children who formed nations … I hardly imagine that God sanctioned the acts of these women even if they tried to justify their position claiming that they lineage would die out unless they progressed it by having sec with their drunken Father! And Lot was not in a position to say ‘I agree’ (Don’t they call that RAPE? Or does it only apply if a man does it to a woman who is not in a position to say ‘No’?!)

 

[MyM]

Well, nothing was banned pal.
It is still in the Bible as a warning on how God sees people who practices Idolatory!
And remember, this god mentioned was "Ba Allah"
BaAl!
the ancient pagan god of the Midianites, Moabites and Amonites.
These were the ancient Arabic tribes in the East of Palestine.
in 1972 Yagel Yadin discovered a templke to Ba Allah with a cresent and star on his chest.
His name was Hu-Ba Allah!
the pagan name for the Creator is Ba Allah!
What is the name of the God in the Quran.
The one in the Bible is YHWH.
He is not an Idol.

It is wrong. God doesn't need to teach people about idolatry through WHOREDOMS OF THE 2 SISTERS — AHOLA AND AHOLIBA. lol Word for word of what they did...God doesn't talk filth. If it were pure idolatry, there would be no need for the whoredoms lol also . . for the spirit of WHOREDOMS hath cause them (the Jews) to err, and they have gone a WHORING from under their God ” HOSEA 4:12, 6:10, and 9:1

To attribute filth to a prophet of God, drunkenness and sexual encounters with his daughters and then the book of Ezekial with the whoredoms of the two sisters ahola and aholiba....How can one say God talks like that and picks a drunkard for his prophet? Man that's who, not God.


What does idolatry have to do with the Quran. Allah speaks against such things. Mohammad pbuh broke many idols and forbid anyone to worship any being accept Allah. He is the only one worthy of worship.

 

[MyM]

Can I ask? What is this thing that is being spoken about concerning God or prophets having sex with harlots. Which prophets is this about? I know about Lot’s daughter and the resultant children who formed nations … I hardly imagine that God sanctioned the acts of these women even if they tried to justify their position claiming that they lineage would die out unless they progressed it by having sec with their drunken Father! And Lot was not in a position to say ‘I agree’ (Don’t they call that RAPE? Or does it only apply if a man does it to a woman who is not in a position to say ‘No’?!)

I suggest you read the story of Lot and his two daughters It's in the bible of what they did to their own father and him being drunk ....Imagine a prophet of God drunk and his daughters had schemed to have sex with him and they beget children ...it's all there

In Islam, this we would never attribute to a prophet of God

 

[SA Huguenot]

Can I ask? What is this thing that is being spoken about concerning God or prophets having sex with harlots. Which prophets is this about? I know about Lot’s daughter and the resultant children who formed nations … I hardly imagine that God sanctioned the acts of these women even if they tried to justify their position claiming that they lineage would die out unless they progressed it by having sec with their drunken Father! And Lot was not in a position to say ‘I agree’ (Don’t they call that RAPE? Or does it only apply if a man does it to a woman who is not in a position to say ‘No’?!)

There are a few so called absurdities in the Bible recorded about the ancient Biblical people.
The narative about Lot is something Muslim scholars love to use to show that somehow the Bible is profane.

The story goes like this.
Abraham's nephew, Lot and his wife and 2 daughters lived in Sodom and Gomorrah.
God visited Abraham and informed him that He will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah due to the utmost heathenous sin they are committing.
Abraham begged god to save his nephew.
God sent an angel to leade Lot away from Sodom, but when the angels arrived in Lot's house, the men demanded that Lot hand them over so they can have sex with them.
Lot knowing they are angels, told the Sodomites that they can have his daughters, but the men demanded the angels.
The Angels blinded the men, and took Lot and his family to a nearby cave where they witnessed the destruction of the 5 cities in the dead sea valley, after Lots' wife was changed into a salt pillar.
Fire fell from the heaven and burned everything.
Lots' daughters then had the idea that there was no men left, and they decided to lay with their father, to get offspring. 2 Nations, Moab and Amon was the result.

This is about what the Bible teaches about Lot and his daughters.

Now, The Quran also mention the two daughters, but with a lot of whitewashing by the hand of Muslim schoalrs as to the reason why Lot gave his daughters to the men of Sodom.
Look at the propper translation.
(Q 15: 71)Muhammad Sarwar: Lot said, "These are my daughters if you want them."
And the whitewash:
Mohsin Khan: [Lout (Lot)] said: "These (the girls of the nation) are my daughters (to marry lawfully), if you must act (so)."
and in (Q 11:78) Muhammad Sarwar: His people, who had constantly indulged in evil deeds, came running to him. He said, "My people, here are my pure daughters. Have fear of God and do not humiliate me before my guests. Is there no person of understanding among you?"

Then the Quran says nothing more but that the angels overpowered these men after they refused to take Lot's daughters.

Therefore:

1. The Bible gives a full story about what happened with Lot, his wife, and his 2 daughters. The Quran does not, therefore one will need to go to the Bible to find out all the detail.
2. The Bible tells us about the incestious rape Lot's daughters committed, which I believe to be true, and shows the reality of the Biblical historical value. If this was the Quran, Uthman would have wiped this detail out.
3. The Bible and Quran have one more detail which Muslims dont know, and this is crucial to their beliefs of what a prophet should be.

The Bible does not recognise Lot as a prophet!
The Quran calls Lot a Prophet of the people of Sodom!, and Sodom's god was Ba' Allah!
a pagan god of sex, sodomy and fertility!

 

[SA Huguenot]

It is wrong. God doesn't need to teach people about idolatry through WHOREDOMS OF THE 2 SISTERS — AHOLA AND AHOLIBA. lol Word for word of what they did...God doesn't talk filth. If it were pure idolatry, there would be no need for the whoredoms lol also . . for the spirit of WHOREDOMS hath cause them (the Jews) to err, and they have gone a WHORING from under their God ” HOSEA 4:12, 6:10, and 9:1

To attribute filth to a prophet of God, drunkenness and sexual encounters with his daughters and then the book of Ezekial with the whoredoms of the two sisters ahola and aholiba....How can one say God talks like that and picks a drunkard for his prophet? Man that's who, not God.


What does idolatry have to do with the Quran. Allah speaks against such things. Mohammad pbuh broke many idols and forbid anyone to worship any being accept Allah. He is the only one worthy of worship.

Simple, Allah is not god, he is a god Muhammad made in place of YHWH.
Allah was the pagan god Hubal, which was the only idol Muhammad left in the Kabah.
His whole family were worshippers of Allah, their names had the pagan god of Allah long before Muhammad lived.

What does it help Muhammad spoke against idolatory, and removed Idols from pagan Arabs, if he made a god he called "god"?
Allah is not a name, but the pagan word for small letter god, like an idol.

 

[sojourner]

Satan is defined as the serpent per Revelation 20:2, the same serpent who spoke to Eve. Have you actually ever read the whole bible, or just some talking points?

Yes, per Revelation — but not per Genesis. The serpent — in Genesis — according to Genesis — is not Satan. Revelation is a much, much, much later interpolation from a completely different cultural perspective. Revelation does not inform a valid exegesis of Genesis.

Have you actually ever exegeted biblical texts, or just done surface readings?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Simple, Allah is not god,.

No reply to my post #221 , I see..

Well, what can you say.

 

[MyM]

There are a few so called absurdities in the Bible recorded about the ancient Biblical people.
The narative about Lot is something Muslim scholars love to use to show that somehow the Bible is profane.

The story goes like this.
Abraham's nephew, Lot and his wife and 2 daughters lived in Sodom and Gomorrah.
God visited Abraham and informed him that He will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah due to the utmost heathenous sin they are committing.
Abraham begged god to save his nephew.
God sent an angel to leade Lot away from Sodom, but when the angels arrived in Lot's house, the men demanded that Lot hand them over so they can have sex with them.
Lot knowing they are angels, told the Sodomites that they can have his daughters, but the men demanded the angels.
The Angels blinded the men, and took Lot and his family to a nearby cave where they witnessed the destruction of the 5 cities in the dead sea valley, after Lots' wife was changed into a salt pillar.
Fire fell from the heaven and burned everything.
Lots' daughters then had the idea that there was no men left, and they decided to lay with their father, to get offspring. 2 Nations, Moab and Amon was the result.

This is about what the Bible teaches about Lot and his daughters.

Now, The Quran also mention the two daughters, but with a lot of whitewashing by the hand of Muslim schoalrs as to the reason why Lot gave his daughters to the men of Sodom.
Look at the propper translation.
(Q 15: 71)Muhammad Sarwar: Lot said, "These are my daughters if you want them."
And the whitewash:
Mohsin Khan: [Lout (Lot)] said: "These (the girls of the nation) are my daughters (to marry lawfully), if you must act (so)."
and in (Q 11:78) Muhammad Sarwar: His people, who had constantly indulged in evil deeds, came running to him. He said, "My people, here are my pure daughters. Have fear of God and do not humiliate me before my guests. Is there no person of understanding among you?"

Then the Quran says nothing more but that the angels overpowered these men after they refused to take Lot's daughters.

Therefore:

1. The Bible gives a full story about what happened with Lot, his wife, and his 2 daughters. The Quran does not, therefore one will need to go to the Bible to find out all the detail.
2. The Bible tells us about the incestious rape Lot's daughters committed, which I believe to be true, and shows the reality of the Biblical historical value. If this was the Quran, Uthman would have wiped this detail out.
3. The Bible and Quran have one more detail which Muslims dont know, and this is crucial to their beliefs of what a prophet should be.

The Bible does not recognise Lot as a prophet!
The Quran calls Lot a Prophet of the people of Sodom!, and Sodom's god was Ba' Allah!
a pagan god of sex, sodomy and fertility!

seriously the Bible does not say the complete truth and you know it.

Lot was the nephew of Ibraheem (Abraham) he was indeed a prophet of God in the Quran and is recognized as such. It's the Bible that has misled. Lot was a Prophet pbuh and he never believed in idolatry . He taught monotheism just like Abraham did. Why do you think he was sent there! God considered Lot people of the righteous in the Bible!! So you think he was to be mixed up in the story because he was in Sodom? lol

The Bible does not give the accurate account of what happened. We can read clearly because of what happened to him and how the Bible portrayed a man of God. HE WAS A MAN OF GOD....how could you say he wasn't!!!

Get off your high horse about that idol baha or whatever it is. There is no such thing in Islam, nor will there ever be.

 

[sojourner]

You proved it by saying this?

I didn’t set out to prove anything. I don’t have to prove anything. You’re the one imposing a set of criteria that simply don’t exist. It’s up to you to prove that your “system” is preferable to the community of peer-reviewed scholars who provide a bible for you to read in the first place.

 

[MyM]

Simple, Allah is not god, he is a god Muhammad made in place of YHWH.
Allah was the pagan god Hubal, which was the only idol Muhammad left in the Kabah.
His whole family were worshippers of Allah, their names had the pagan god of Allah long before Muhammad lived.

What does it help Muhammad spoke against idolatory, and removed Idols from pagan Arabs, if he made a god he called "god"?
Allah is not a name, but the pagan word for small letter god, like an idol.

You are COMPLETELY ignorant when it comes to Islam. You obviously are an enemy of it and therefor just love to say what you wish about it....even when proven wrong in what you say.

Allah calls himself that. It's HIS NAME.

Just stop all this crap about what you don't know and putting it towards Islam. Allah is NOT HUBAL. omg get real. I repeat......in Islam, there is no idolatry and no one ever in Islam claims any worship accept to Allah, the creator of the universe of you and me. Trust me, NO IDOLS WERE LEFT IN THE KABA. NONE. They were all destroyed.

 

[Soapy]

There are a few so called absurdities in the Bible recorded about the ancient Biblical people.
The narative about Lot is something Muslim scholars love to use to show that somehow the Bible is profane.

The story goes like this.
Abraham's nephew, Lot and his wife and 2 daughters lived in Sodom and Gomorrah.
God visited Abraham and informed him that He will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah due to the utmost heathenous sin they are committing.
Abraham begged god to save his nephew.
God sent an angel to leade Lot away from Sodom, but when the angels arrived in Lot's house, the men demanded that Lot hand them over so they can have sex with them.
Lot knowing they are angels, told the Sodomites that they can have his daughters, but the men demanded the angels.
The Angels blinded the men, and took Lot and his family to a nearby cave where they witnessed the destruction of the 5 cities in the dead sea valley, after Lots' wife was changed into a salt pillar.
Fire fell from the heaven and burned everything.
Lots' daughters then had the idea that there was no men left, and they decided to lay with their father, to get offspring. 2 Nations, Moab and Amon was the result.

This is about what the Bible teaches about Lot and his daughters.

Now, The Quran also mention the two daughters, but with a lot of whitewashing by the hand of Muslim schoalrs as to the reason why Lot gave his daughters to the men of Sodom.
Look at the propper translation.
(Q 15: 71)Muhammad Sarwar: Lot said, "These are my daughters if you want them."
And the whitewash:
Mohsin Khan: [Lout (Lot)] said: "These (the girls of the nation) are my daughters (to marry lawfully), if you must act (so)."
and in (Q 11:78) Muhammad Sarwar: His people, who had constantly indulged in evil deeds, came running to him. He said, "My people, here are my pure daughters. Have fear of God and do not humiliate me before my guests. Is there no person of understanding among you?"

Then the Quran says nothing more but that the angels overpowered these men after they refused to take Lot's daughters.

Therefore:

1. The Bible gives a full story about what happened with Lot, his wife, and his 2 daughters. The Quran does not, therefore one will need to go to the Bible to find out all the detail.
2. The Bible tells us about the incestious rape Lot's daughters committed, which I believe to be true, and shows the reality of the Biblical historical value. If this was the Quran, Uthman would have wiped this detail out.
3. The Bible and Quran have one more detail which Muslims dont know, and this is crucial to their beliefs of what a prophet should be.

The Bible does not recognise Lot as a prophet!
The Quran calls Lot a Prophet of the people of Sodom!, and Sodom's god was Ba' Allah!
a pagan god of sex, sodomy and fertility!

Thank you. I did not know anything about the Muslim perspective on this …. Nor, in fact would I even now want to continue to debate on any issue to do with Muslim perspective: For me, I believe my task is simply as an opposer to trinity and things surrounding it.
I cannot see how we are debating between diffident hugely different belief systems … yet I know that the scriptures prophesied that there would be destructive relationship between Ishmael princely offsprings and Isaacs Princely offspring…… and here we have it!

What relationship does muslim- ism (Islam) have with Christianity or Judaism? We believe in ONLY ONE GOD… we may call him by different names (Allah / YHWH) and worship him in different ways but still ONE GOD. Further, Trinity causes problems because they go further than ONE GOD by dividing the ONENESS into Three … ridiculous nonsense IMO!!

‘ONE MEANS ONE and ONE MEANS ONLY’

The God is Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, said that HE was to be their ONLY GOD. Why? Because the Jews were living among other tribes and nations who believed that worship must be given to MANY GODS, each of which controlled different aspects of a created world. Jehovah (YHWH) told his favoured nation that they should not be like those nations and people, that his people must believe that HE and HE ALONE is to be worshipped.

Now, I’m not going to argue about definitions of ‘El’ and ‘Elohim’, because such words are used VARIED ways for different purposes. In my opinion, a plural use of Elohim DOES NOT IMPLY THREE PERSONS… and there is nothing in the Old Testament to imply at any time THREE PERSONS as ONE GOD…. The Bible writer of Genesis said that GOD’s SPIRIT was hovering over creation. If it is wrongfully taken that God’s Spirit is a PERSON then where are the mention of the OTHER TWO PERSONS that formed a trinity…. Nowhere!! The SPIRIT f a thing is NOT ANOTHER SEPARATE THING… and where is there a relating of the do-called ‘Creation’ petson OF GOD: Jesus: the Son? Nowhere! Such a monumental act and yet not a single word about the SON of God carrying out the act: Further, the New Testament does not even agree with itself on this matter, saying at one time that the Son was the absolute creator and at another time that it was the Father THROUGH the Son, and yet also that SON BY HIMSELF and FOR HIMSELF. And even worse that even jesus himself never claimed to have created anything …giving ALL THE GLORY TO HIS FATHER…. A ‘FATHER’ that FIRST DID then showed the Son how to do (So how did the Don create all by himself unless the Father had first created and then showed him how to… was there a PREVIOUS CREATION we are not told about?) And finally, there is no mention of a FATHER in the creation event. We are only told of GOD and the SPIRIT of Him… Why? Because the GOD IS THE FATHER and the FATHER ALONE IS GOD. This being also what Jesus spoke: ‘Father… this means eternal life [to those who believe] that they should believe in YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD…’. if Jesus calls the Father ‘The only true God’, are you calling Jesus a liar by claiming that Jesus was just to coy to call himself the only true God as well… and even so, that is only TWO PERSONS - where is the claim of a THIRD ‘ONLY TRUE’ GOD? Trinity believers never answer such questions when asked but only skirt around the issue by asking other questions back - usually by asking if there is only ONE Lord… an invalid question at the best of times since Lord or lord has nothing to do with being GOD! (‘LORD’ - all caps -is not a true word since it is only used as a deliberately confusing term or substitute for the NAME OF THE TRUE GOD: YHWH.)

Argument done!

 

[MyM]

Thank you. I did not know anything about the Muslim perspective on this …. Nor, in fact would I even now want to continue to debate on any issue to do with Muslim perspective: For me, I believe my task is simply as an opposer to trinity and things surrounding it.
I cannot see how we are debating between diffident hugely different belief systems … yet I know that the scriptures prophesied that there would be destructive relationship between Ishmael princely offsprings and Isaacs Princely offspring…… and here we have it!

What relationship does muslim- ism (Islam) have with Christianity or Judaism? We believe in ONLY ONE GOD… we may call him by different names (Allah / YHWH) and worship him in different ways but still ONE GOD. Further, Trinity causes problems because they go further than ONE GOD by dividing the ONENESS into Three … ridiculous nonsense IMO!!

‘ONE MEANS ONE and ONE MEANS ONLY’

The God is Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, said that HE was to be their ONLY GOD. Why? Because the Jews were living among other tribes and nations who believed that worship must be given to MANY GODS, each of which controlled different aspects of a created world. Jehovah (YHWH) told his favoured nation that they should not be like those nations and people, that his people must believe that HE and HE ALONE is to be worshipped.

Now, I’m not going to argue about definitions of ‘El’ and ‘Elohim’, because such words are used VARIED ways for different purposes. In my opinion, a plural use of Elohim DOES NOT IMPLY THREE PERSONS… and there is nothing in the Old Testament to imply at any time THREE PERSONS as ONE GOD…. The Bible writer of Genesis said that GOD’s SPIRIT was hovering over creation. If it is wrongfully taken that God’s Spirit is a PERSON then where are the mention of the OTHER TWO PERSONS that formed a trinity…. Nowhere!! The SPIRIT f a thing is NOT ANOTHER SEPARATE THING… and where is there a relating of the do-called ‘Creation’ petson OF GOD: Jesus: the Son? Nowhere! Such a monumental act and yet not a single word about the SON of God carrying out the act: Further, the New Testament does not even agree with itself on this matter, saying at one time that the Son was the absolute creator and at another time that it was the Father THROUGH the Son, and yet also that SON BY HIMSELF and FOR HIMSELF. And even worse that even jesus himself never claimed to have created anything …giving ALL THE GLORY TO HIS FATHER…. A ‘FATHER’ that FIRST DID then showed the Son how to do (So how did the Don create all by himself unless the Father had first created and then showed him how to… was there a PREVIOUS CREATION we are not told about?) And finally, there is no mention of a FATHER in the creation event. We are only told of GOD and the SPIRIT of Him… Why? Because the GOD IS THE FATHER and the FATHER ALONE IS GOD. This being also what Jesus spoke: ‘Father… this means eternal life [to those who believe] that they should believe in YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD…’. if Jesus calls the Father ‘The only true God’, are you calling Jesus a liar by claiming that Jesus was just to coy to call himself the only true God as well… and even so, that is only TWO PERSONS - where is the claim of a THIRD ‘ONLY TRUE’ GOD? Trinity believers never answer such questions when asked but only skirt around the issue by asking other questions back - usually by asking if there is only ONE Lord… an invalid question at the best of times since Lord or lord has nothing to do with being GOD! (‘LORD’ - all caps -is not a true word since it is only used as a deliberately confusing term or substitute for the NAME OF THE TRUE GOD: YHWH.)

Argument done!

just fyi, He did not give you the accurate information from the Islamic side. He always lies about it, I confront him, he will not accept it. So please, I ask you, when it involves Islam, do NOT take anything from him for he is an enemy of Islam and says horrible filth about it and thus cannot be accredited.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, per Revelation — but not per Genesis. The serpent — in Genesis — according to Genesis — is not Satan. Revelation is a much, much, much later interpolation from a completely different cultural perspective. Revelation does not inform a valid exegesis of Genesis.

Have you actually ever exegeted biblical texts, or just done surface readings?

The "testimony of Yeshua is the spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10), as is the Word of God. Genesis would be the "Word of God". Your "exegeted" understanding is the understanding of those who practice, "commit lawlessness", the followers of the false prophet Paul, the foremost sinner, and would therefore be those without "understanding" per Daniel 12:10, and subject to the furnace of fire, per Matthew 13:41-42. If one wants "understanding", they need the anointing to receive understanding per 1 John 2:27. Revelation 20:2 is quite clear to those not in the camp of the double minded, and followers of the leaven/hypocrisy producing Pharisee of Pharisees.

New American Standard Bible Revelation 20:2
And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

[sojourner]

The "testimony of Yeshua is the spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10), as is the Word of God. Genesis would be the "Word of God". Your "exegeted" understanding is the understanding of those who practice, "commit lawlessness", the followers of the false prophet Paul, the foremost sinner, and would therefore be those without "understanding" per Daniel 12:10, and subject to the furnace of fire, per Matthew 13:41-42. If one wants "understanding", they need the anointing to receive understanding per 1 John 2:27. Revelation 20:2 is quite clear to those not in the camp of the double minded, and followers of the leaven/hypocrisy producing Pharisee of Pharisees.

New American Standard Bible Revelation 20:2
And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Naive and pietistic claptrap. Genesis isn’t “prophecy.”

 

[2ndpillar]

I didn’t set out to prove anything. I don’t have to prove anything. You’re the one imposing a set of criteria that simply don’t exist. It’s up to you to prove that your “system” is preferable to the community of peer-reviewed scholars who provide a bible for you to read in the first place.

Is one to seek the "anointing" to find understanding as stated in 1 John 2:37, or the "wise and intelligent", for which Yeshua said they have no understanding (Matthew 11:25)? And where did the generally accepted present canon arise from, and when? It arose from the Roman bishop of Alexandria, Athanasius, via his Easter (feast of the pagan god Astarte) letter in the year 367 AD.

 

[2ndpillar]

Naive and pietistic claptrap. Genesis isn’t “prophecy.”

I don't know. God said Adam would die. I kind of think that prophetic statement came to fruition.

 

[sojourner]

Is one to seek the "anointing" to find understanding as stated in 1 John 2:37, or the "wise and intelligent", for which Yeshua said they have no understanding (Matthew 11:25)? And where did the generally accepted present canon arise from, and when? It arose from the Roman bishop of Alexandria, Athanasius, via his Easter (feast of the pagan god Astarte) letter in the year 367 AD.

John isn’t talking about exegeting texts. To say that it is, is to misquote it.

Athanasius wasn’t Roman; he was Orthodox. Marcion produced a rudimentary canon, as well as Eusebius.

Your information is both biased and incorrect.

 

[sojourner]

I don't know. God said Adam would die. I kind of think that prophetic statement came to fruition.

God doesn’t prophesy. People prophesy. The creation stories aren’t prophecy. They are, rather, etiology: “This is why things are the way they are.”

 

[Dogknox20]

Looks clear enough to me... without the bright red.
Some persons don't know how to put scriptures together, in order to understand them. They tend to come up with their own ideas - taking things literal, where symbolism is used, and using symbolism where literal use is applied.

nPeace I hope all is well..... ..taking things literal, where symbolism is used, and using symbolism where literal use is applied

OR......

Or they want to reject the truth anyway they can! The Truth is Christians have ALWAYS believed Jesus is God!