"Begotten", what does it mean?

[SA Huguenot]

Here Jesus claimed to be God.
Mat 9:6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins
Mat 12:8 (Mar 2: 28, Luke 6: 5) For the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath.
Very Important! Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst.
Mat 19:29 And everyone who left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, … shall inherit everlasting life.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you…

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

Joh 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and finding him, He said to him, Do you believe on the Son of God? Joh 9:36 And he answered and said, Who is He, Lord, that I might believe on Him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said to him, You have both seen Him, and it is He who is speaking with you.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped Him.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Here the Father and His angels declare Jesus is God.
Luk 1:31 And behold! You shall conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God.


Mat 3:16 (Mark 1: 9- 11, Luke 3: 22) And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat 17:5 (Luke 9: 34- 35, Mar 9:7 ) While he yet spoke, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them. And behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, hear Him.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Scripture says he is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Mat 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."
Mat 22:43 He said to them, How then does David by the Spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

 

[SA Huguenot]

He is God by witnesses.
Joh 1:33 And I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water, that One said to me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon Him, He is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Mat 14:33 And those in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly You are the Son of God.
Mat 16:16 (Luke 9: 20) And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, You are blessed, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give the keys of the kingdom of Heaven to you. And whatever you may bind on earth shall occur, having been bound in Heaven, and whatever you may loose on earth shall occur, having been loosed in Heaven.

Mat 16:20 Then He warned His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the Words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we have believed and have known that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Joh 11:4 When Jesus heard, He said, This sickness is not to death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God might be glorified by it. (Lazarus)
Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
Joh 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
Joh 11:27 She said to Him, Yes, Lord, I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who has come into the world.
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there also My servant shall be. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify Your name! Then there came a voice from the heaven saying, I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.

Mat 27:54 But the centurion and those guarding Jesus, seeing the earthquake, and the things that took place, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this One was Son of God.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me you have believed. Blessed are they who have not seen and have believed.

 

[SA Huguenot]

EVEN Satan and the devils say He is God!

Mat 8:29 (Mark 5: 7’ Luke 8: 28) And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time? (Two possessed with devils at Gergesenes)
Mar 1:24 (Luke 4: 33, 34, Mark 3: 11) saying, What is to us and to You, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know You, who You are, the Holy One of God. (man with unclean spirit in a synagogue)
Luk 4:41 And also demons came out of many, crying out and saying, You are the Christ, the Son of God! And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak; for they knew Him to be the Christ.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Jews and priests killed him because He said He was god!
Mar 2:6 (Luke 5: 20- 21) But some of the scribes were sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why does this one speak such blasphemies? Who can forgive sins except God only?
Mar 2:10 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority upon earth to forgive sins,

Joh 5:16 And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father works until now, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Then, because of this, the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the sabbath, but also said that God was His father, making Himself equal with God.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
Joh 5:23 so that all should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who hears My Word and believes on Him who sent Me has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one!
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because you, being a man, make yourself God.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works so that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus was silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, I adjure you by the living God that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 (Mark 14: 62) Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, now you have heard his blasphemy.

(Luk 22:66 Mark 14: 61- 64) And when day came, the body of elders of the people, and the chief priests and the scribes, came together. And they led Him to the sanhedrin, saying,
Luk 22:67 Are you the Christ? Tell us. And He said to them, If I tell you, you will not believe.
Luk 22:68 Also if I ask you, you will not answer Me nor let Me go.
Luk 22:69 From now on the Son of Man shall sit at the right hand of the power of God.

Luk 22:70 And they all said, Are you then the Son of God? And He said to them, You say it, because I AM!
Luk 22:71 And they said, What need do we have for any witness? For we ourselves have heard it from his own mouth.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here.
Joh 18:37 Pilate then said to Him, Are you a king then? Jesus answered, You say it that I am a king. To this end I was born, and for this cause I came into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.
Joh 19:6 Then when the chief priests and under-officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, Crucify! Crucify Him! Pilate said to them, You take Him and crucify Him, for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a Law, and by our Law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Joh 19:8 Then when Pilate heard that saying, he was the more afraid.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The bible was not written in English. the word begotten was never used
It was the word chosen by the translators to give the nearest meaning to the Greek original.

It is absolutely fruitless to argue about the meaning of English words.

 

[SA Huguenot]

And Lastly
My Father and I.
Luk 2:49 And He said to them, Why did you look for Me? Do you not know that I must be about My Father's business?

Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!
Mat 10:32 (Luke 12: 8- 9) Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in Heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered to Me by My Father. And no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He shall reward each one according to his works.
Mat 25:31 But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His glory.
Mat 25:32 And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:34 Then the King shall say to those on His right hand, Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Mar 8:38 (Luke 9: 26) Therefore whoever shall be ashamed of Me and of My Words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man shall also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to Me by My Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, "And they shall all be taught of God." Therefore everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to Me.
Joh 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God, He has seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me has everlasting life..
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the Words of eternal life..
Joh 10:17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give miraculous signs and wonders in order to seduce, if possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take heed; behold, I have told you all things beforehand.
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The Words that I speak to you I do not speak of Myself, but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works themselves.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

Joh 15:23 He who hates Me hates My Father also.
Joh 15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.
Joh 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world. Again I leave the world and go to the Father..

Joh 17:1 Jesus spoke these words and lifted up His eyes to Heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son so that Your Son also may glorify You,
Joh 17:2 even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all You have given Him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified You upon the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was..
Joh 17:11 And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are..
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, that they may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me, for You have loved Me before the foundation of the world.
Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, indeed the world has not known You; but I have known You, and these have known that You have sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I made known to them Your name, and will make it known, so that the love with which You have loved Me may be in them, and I in them.

 

[Soapy]

Look I have pages of references from the Tanach where the Bible shows YHWH describing Himself as a Triune God.
Here is only a few I chose to show you.
2Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of Jehovah has spoken by me, and His Word is on my tongue.
2Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me: One ruling over man righteously, who rules in the fear of God,

The Spirit of Jehovah, and the Word of YHWH?

Psalm 2:7 I will declare concerning the statute of Jehovah: He said to Me, You are My Son. Today I have begotten You.
Psalm 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give the nations as Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth as Your possession.
Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psalm 2:10 Now, then, be wise, O kings; be taught, O judges of the earth:
Psalm 2:11 Serve Jehovah with fear; yea, rejoice with trembling.
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Oh the blessings of all those who flee to Him for refuge!

Who's wrath?
YHWH's Son?

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?

Question, do you know that Jesus said He came from Heaven, and He will return to heaven?

Isaiah 48:12 Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last.
Isaiah 48:13 My hand surely founded earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; I called to them, they stood up together.
Isaiah 48:15 I, I have spoken; yea, I have called him, I brought him, and he causes his way to prosper.
Isaiah 48:16 Come near to Me; hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me.
Isaiah 48:17 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

Wow, here we have the creator who was the first and the last and YHWH and His Spirit sent the Creator!

I think enough of the OT where God say He has a Spirit and a Word.
What did Jesus say?
Next post....

You have misinterpreted every one of those verses.

Not a single one expresses any kind of trinity… at the most it mentions two: God and a Son. But this ‘Son’ is not a reference to Jesus Christ.

As for God’s word…. It’s just that… God’s word!

If God says something is to happen then it will happen because God is always true to HIS WORD!

And, when that thing that God says will happen does happen then God has PUT FLESH ON HIS WORD.

 

[Soapy]

The bible was not written in English. the word begotten was never used
It was the word chosen by the translators to give the nearest meaning to the Greek original.

It is absolutely fruitless to argue about the meaning of English words.

‘Begotten’ mean ‘Taken Up As Ones Own [whether by human procreation or adoption in Spirit (non-procreation, E.g. A stranger or non-direct birth)]’ … which means: ‘Adopted’.

Hence ‘Begot’, ‘Beget’, ‘Begat’…

Jesus was ‘Begotten’ by God when God said to him:

• ‘You are my Son, Today I have become your Father’

Anyone who walks in truth knows that that is an Adoption statement.

In the same way that the Apostle Paul ‘Begat Onesimus’ (Philemon 1:10)

• “I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains.”
• “I exhort you for my child whom I have begotten in chains, Onesimus,”

Paul describes Onesimus as ‘My Son’ even though Onesimus was not procreated by Paul (He was a run-a-way slave from his master, Philemon)

Paul states that he ‘Begat’ Onesimus (‘I have Begotten him’) even while Paul was in chains in prison… so it certainly was not a spiritual adoption…!

 

[Soapy]

Here the Father and His angels declare Jesus is God.
Luk 1:31 And behold! You shall conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God.


Mat 3:16 (Mark 1: 9- 11, Luke 3: 22) And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat 17:5 (Luke 9: 34- 35, Mar 9:7 ) While he yet spoke, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them. And behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, hear Him.

‘Son of God’ means:

• ‘Follower of the Spirit of God / Doer of the works of God’

You will hear Jesus declare this to the Jews when he says in John 36-38:

• “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
• Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
  
• “But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

The verses state that Jesus is DOING the works of his Father (God: YHWH). Notice that Jesus CHALLENGES the Jews who claim that he was making himself God. Jesus says: ‘No! I only said I am the SON of God’. And what does ‘Son’ mean? (See above!)

The last verse simply expresses that Jesus agrees with all his Father does and his Father agrees with all that Jesus does (same as: ‘I and the Father are one’)

 

[SA Huguenot]

‘Son of God’ means:

• ‘Follower of the Spirit of God / Doer of the works of God’

You will hear Jesus declare this to the Jews when he says in John 36-38:

• “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
• Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
  
• “But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

The verses state that Jesus is DOING the works of his Father (God: YHWH). Notice that Jesus CHALLENGES the Jews who claim that he was making himself God. Jesus says: ‘No! I only said I am the SON of God’. And what does ‘Son’ mean? (See above!)

The last verse simply expresses that Jesus agrees with all his Father does and his Father agrees with all that Jesus does (same as: ‘I and the Father are one’)

Joh 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Now here we have 2 quotes from Jesus where he said he existed before he was a man.
in the one reference, he say he lived before Abraham!
in the other, He say he lived with God from the Beginning!

 

[sojourner]

Tamar was not a prostitute, where did you get that idea?
Rahab of the Old testament could not have been the Rahab of the NT, simply because Rahab would have been a women much too old for Salmon who would have been less than 13 when Jericho was destroyed.
It does not mean the Rahab in the geneaology of Jesus, must be the Rahab referred to in the OT, and other verses where the jericho Rahab is discussed.
Furthermore, where did you get the idea that Ruth was a forreigner?
Do you think that the Judges in Israel would ever have allowed a Moabite to have married Naomi's son?
And they would also not have allowed to sanction the Levite law of the closest relative to marry her.

Nope, the only reason why she is called a Moabite, is because she came from Moab.
An israelite from Moab, remains an Israelite.
Moses was called an Egyptian, then a Mideanite. It was the use of old times to call people a second name, usually from the region or city they live in.
I rest by the Levitical laws, and the sanctioning of the Judges and elders of Israel to have accepted Ruth as an israelite woman.
Your God is My God, and Your people are my people.

However, I like this post, because this info was a hot topic over the years, and many students of the Bible and History found the above to be totally incorrect.
Greetings.

I see your first point. I did make “prostitute” plural. My point is, all of these women were outcast in some way. I disagree with your take.

 

[sojourner]

Look I have pages of references from the Tanach where the Bible shows YHWH describing Himself as a Triune God.
Here is only a few I chose to show you.
2Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of Jehovah has spoken by me, and His Word is on my tongue.
2Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me: One ruling over man righteously, who rules in the fear of God,

The Spirit of Jehovah, and the Word of YHWH?

Psalm 2:7 I will declare concerning the statute of Jehovah: He said to Me, You are My Son. Today I have begotten You.
Psalm 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give the nations as Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth as Your possession.
Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psalm 2:10 Now, then, be wise, O kings; be taught, O judges of the earth:
Psalm 2:11 Serve Jehovah with fear; yea, rejoice with trembling.
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Oh the blessings of all those who flee to Him for refuge!

Who's wrath?
YHWH's Son?

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?

Question, do you know that Jesus said He came from Heaven, and He will return to heaven?

Isaiah 48:12 Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last.
Isaiah 48:13 My hand surely founded earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; I called to them, they stood up together.
Isaiah 48:15 I, I have spoken; yea, I have called him, I brought him, and he causes his way to prosper.
Isaiah 48:16 Come near to Me; hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me.
Isaiah 48:17 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

Wow, here we have the creator who was the first and the last and YHWH and His Spirit sent the Creator!

I think enough of the OT where God say He has a Spirit and a Word.
What did Jesus say?
Next post....

You’re reading these Hebrew texts through a Christian lens. These authors would never have conceived of God as anything but singular.

 

[Dogknox20]

True, in the sense of the New Testament Writers, The Father would be Father after the Birth of Jesus.
However, even in the Old Testament YHWH speaks of His Spirit and the redeemer, and on one place, the Son, who knows his name!

.
SA Huguenot I hope all is well...
Begotten = Born
Jesus is Begotten! The Word became man and lived among us!
Fact... You cannot die as a man if first you are not born as a man! God became "Man" to correct the sin of the first Man.. Adam! The first man brought death into God' perfect creation and God the second Perfect Man brought again "Eternal life to Man"!

 

[Soapy]

Joh 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Now here we have 2 quotes from Jesus where he said he existed before he was a man.
in the one reference, he say he lived before Abraham!
in the other, He say he lived with God from the Beginning!

I notice that you don’t comment on the verses I gave you and the strength of its validity but rather, straightway, present misleading verses … verses taken out of context and wrongfully translated.

Jesus did not say he lived with God from the beginning.

And, it is even a testament to the invalidity of trinity that the verse says ‘lived WITH GOD’: If he LIVED WITH GOD then he cannot have BEEN GOD!
The Holy angels were WITH GOD in Heaven but do not claim to BE GOD! Only Satan saw himself as ‘worthy of worship ALONG WITH GOD’ and fell to sin as a result of such blasphemous and irreverent thoughts!

And, Jesus did not say that he lived before Abraham. He said that he was ‘BEFORE’ Abraham. Being ‘Before’ someone is a term meaning ‘AHEAD OF’, and ‘GREATER THAN’… and if was THIS REFERENCE that got the Jews all riled up ready to stone him!… because Jesus ANSWERED that:

• ‘[Yes,] I Am Greater than (Before) Abraham!’

The trinitarian translator CHOSE to translate the verse the way they did to satisfy their forced beliefs. It could just the same be translated:

• ‘[Yes,] Greater than Abraham, I am’

It is not a reference to TIME or chronological age. Check the same when John the Baptist states that Jesus was ‘BEFORE HIM’, yet we know that (the purposely told story for the purpose of evidence shows that) John was six months older than Jesus.
The story of John the Baptist bring six months older than jesus has no other meaning or reasoning for being told - although it is known that Jesus and John and were relatives the pointlessness is made clear when John did not know Jesus nor did Jesus know John despite the closeness of their mothers as cousins. God always justifies himself and his word!)

I would ask you to examine those verses and try to justify your own interpretations in light of what you are hearing now - not what you have been misled to believe!

Try these:

1. ‘I Am’ is NOT the name of God
2. Try putting your another name in that sentence:
   1. ‘Before Abraham, SA Huguenot’
   2. ‘Before Sojouner, Soapy’
   3. ‘Before Adam, Jesus’

Make sense? And those ARE NAMES!
‘I Am’ is the MEANING of the NAME ‘YHWH’.
Try putting the meaning of another name in that frame:

• ‘Before Andrew, The Rock’ instead of ‘Before Andrew, Peter’
• ‘Before Judas, Didymus’ instead of ‘Before Judas, Thomas’

Make sense!? Of course not!

And, what happens in the very next chapter: A man born blind is made to see and is asked if he really is that man - he is sworn to answer in front of a court and answers: ‘I Am’… and even previous to that he answered to others about bring the one who had gained his sight: “I am the man.” (John 9:9).
Wow… ‘GOD the man’ (by trinity claim!!)

 

[1213]

....The word monogenes means "only" (mono) "kind" (genes) (also child)...

I think that is a good point. I have understood the meaning is, Jesus is the only son of God that has born the way Bible tells it. God has many sons (for example Job 1:6), but no other that is born in such way.

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

 

[Soapy]

I think that is a good point. I have understood the meaning is, Jesus is the only son of God that has born the way Bible tells it. God has many sons (for example Job 1:6), but no other that is born in such way.

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Jesus, a human, is the only living human created the way he was: by the Holy Spirit of God; Sinless and holy.

Adam, a human, was also created that way but he sinned and died!

So, yes, absolutely, Jesus IS MONOGENES!

The holy angels are Sons of God but are not MONOGENES because they are Spirit only and are not made in the image of God and in any case there are there are many of them.

 

[nPeace]

I was asked by a fellow member to explain the word "Begotten" about Jesus in the Bible, because somehow it is a very bad word?

Will, I promised I will discuss this word on another thread, and here it is.

The Christian knows that Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God, and accepts this as fact, but they never question the meaning of how and what this means.

But we can not discuss this concept if we do not have the verses about Jesus being begotten and being the Son of God.
Here are a few.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

OK, so lets see. The word monogenes means "only" (mono) "kind" (genes) (also child)
It is very close to modern words where we know Mono, as one such as "Monotheism" and genes such as genes in DNA.
one, only kind child.

We find it in the OT also:
In Hebrews 11:17 Isaac is called Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

Now that we have the verses, and the meaning, lets get the context.

In the beginning, we see a description that God had a Mind (Word), a Spirit, and an existence living body covered with light. The Spirit of God left the existence of YHWH and hovered above the waters, which means the Spirit could enter into the creation of YHWH.
We also see that the Spirit of YHWH, or as we know Him as the Holy Spirit of God, could come onto people and make their bodies change, such as Samson that became super strong as soon as the Spirit intered his body.
The Spirit came upon Elisha when Elijah annointed him, and he could do magnificent miracles.
Therefore, the Spirit of YHWH can come into creation, and change the human body!

Now we have a description in John about the "Word of God" who was with God in the beginning, and this Word of God created everything.

And God sent His Spirit to Mary and changed her body to become pregnant without intercourse, just as this Spirit changed human attributes before, and a human body was created in Mary, with the "Word of God" in it, which is the Mind of God.
This human was born, and became known as Jesus.
This is the reason why God calls Jesus His only begotten Son.
Jesus was created in the body of Mary by the Holy Spirit of God.
and God's Word left the existence of YHWH, and entered the fetus.

Now, take into consideration:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Conclusion.
God had to save his creation from death, because we are all just dying corpses, and to do that God Himself sent his Mind, that became a Human, to live amongst us.
This is why Christians believe Jesus is God, and why He came as a Human to die!
To be the first to attain an immortal body for us all to follow in this way to eternity.

Therefore, what would you call someone that had a human body, that was created, just as Adam's body, but had the mind of God dwelling in that Body.

One of a Kind, or
Only Begotten Son.

Nice initialization.
I was looking for it, but I don't think you explained in what way Isaac was Abraham's only begotten. Did you?
"the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons" means what exactly?

 

[nPeace]

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son..."
He gave his only begotten. He gave his only begotten.

The man sent his limousine to the hotel.
The man sent his limousine. The man sent his limousine.

I am wondering... I don't think I need to go back to school, but... did the son become only begotten after he was sent, or before he was sent.
I don't think the limousine became the man's after he sent it. It was his before.

God sent his only begotten.
In other words, there are other sons, but God sent his only begotten - a direct product of him.

Only begotten - only one brought forth by him directly.
All the other sons were brought forth how?
Colossians 1:16 For by him [the only begotten son] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: