"Begotten", what does it mean?

[nPeace]

Here Jesus claimed to be God.
Mat 9:6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins
Mat 12:8 (Mar 2: 28, Luke 6: 5) For the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath.
Very Important! Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst.
Mat 19:29 And everyone who left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, … shall inherit everlasting life.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you…

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

Joh 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and finding him, He said to him, Do you believe on the Son of God? Joh 9:36 And he answered and said, Who is He, Lord, that I might believe on Him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said to him, You have both seen Him, and it is He who is speaking with you.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped Him.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.

Did Jesus claim to be God?
(John 14:28) . . .I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. . .

(John 5:19-23) 19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes alive whomever he wants to. 22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

(John 5:30) . . .I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

(John 7:28) . . .I have not come of my own initiative, but the One who sent me is real. . .

(John 8:28, 29) 28 . . .I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”

(John 12:49, 50) 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”

Clearly, no.
One who has to obey another, cannot possibly be the same one they must obey.
God cannot do what God does not want God to do, sound like something someone in a mental asylum would say.
Jesus - God's son - did not speak madness.
He spoke truth.. about God, his father, and God. - Matthew 27:46 ; John 20:17 . . .I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. . .
Revelation 3:2, 12
“‘The one who conquers - I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

 

[nPeace]

EVEN Satan and the devils say He is God!

Mat 8:29 (Mark 5: 7’ Luke 8: 28) And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time? (Two possessed with devils at Gergesenes)
Mar 1:24 (Luke 4: 33, 34, Mark 3: 11) saying, What is to us and to You, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know You, who You are, the Holy One of God. (man with unclean spirit in a synagogue)
Luk 4:41 And also demons came out of many, crying out and saying, You are the Christ, the Son of God! And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak; for they knew Him to be the Christ.

How is son of God the same as he is God?
You are quoting scripture, but saying something completely different to what's quoted.

 

[SA Huguenot]

You’re reading these Hebrew texts through a Christian lens. These authors would never have conceived of God as anything but singular.

Well explain the following.
Deut 6:4 Hear Israel, YHWH our Eloim (Gods) are one YHWH.
And right in the beginning where YHWH created the Earth and His Spirit hovered above the waters.
Obviously the many verses in the QT where YHWH speaks to YHWH.

No, even Jews such as Herch Prinz understood and accepted the Trinity when he was given a New Testament.
He even destroyed the "Pluralis Majestica" theory, and made sure that the Jews in Berlin learned about Jesus.
10s of thousands of Jews accepted Jesus as their saviour and God.
4 May 1877 Death of Pauli, Trinitarian Kabbalist #otdimjh

 

[SA Huguenot]

Jesus did not say he lived with God from the beginning.

Mmmmm.
If you realy do not want to believe in the Trinity, it is up to you.
But I read that Jesus was with YHWH right from the start of creation.

John, who lived with Jesus, knew Jesus much more than we do, and he was 100% of fact that Jesus created everything, and was the Word of YHWH!
John 17: 5 Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

John therefore opened his recollection on Jesus' life with
In the beginnig was the Word...
And the Word was with God...
And the word was God...
And everything was created by Him...
And the Word became flesh, and lived amongst us...

Furthermore, the first Christians were Jews, in their 10s of thousands.
They did not care to be persecuted and stoned, in their beliefs that Jesus was God and He rose from death.
Why?
Because they studied the "Scriptures
and found that what the Apostles taught, was indeed true!
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The belief in Jesus as Saviour and God was not just some sect that sprang from Judaism, no...
It was the religion that removed Judaeism, for this religion was so politisised, and corrupted, that the ways Jesus taught, mare everyone realise that Judaeism was wrong!

Christianity was a natural followup of what the Old Testament was about.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I notice that you don’t comment on the verses I gave you and the strength of its validity but rather, straightway, present misleading verses … verses taken out of context and wrongfully translated.

Jesus did not say he lived with God from the beginning.

And, it is even a testament to the invalidity of trinity that the verse says ‘lived WITH GOD’: If he LIVED WITH GOD then he cannot have BEEN GOD!
The Holy angels were WITH GOD in Heaven but do not claim to BE GOD! Only Satan saw himself as ‘worthy of worship ALONG WITH GOD’ and fell to sin as a result of such blasphemous and irreverent thoughts!

And, Jesus did not say that he lived before Abraham. He said that he was ‘BEFORE’ Abraham. Being ‘Before’ someone is a term meaning ‘AHEAD OF’, and ‘GREATER THAN’… and if was THIS REFERENCE that got the Jews all riled up ready to stone him!… because Jesus ANSWERED that:

• ‘[Yes,] I Am Greater than (Before) Abraham!’

The trinitarian translator CHOSE to translate the verse the way they did to satisfy their forced beliefs. It could just the same be translated:

• ‘[Yes,] Greater than Abraham, I am’

It is not a reference to TIME or chronological age. Check the same when John the Baptist states that Jesus was ‘BEFORE HIM’, yet we know that (the purposely told story for the purpose of evidence shows that) John was six months older than Jesus.
The story of John the Baptist bring six months older than jesus has no other meaning or reasoning for being told - although it is known that Jesus and John and were relatives the pointlessness is made clear when John did not know Jesus nor did Jesus know John despite the closeness of their mothers as cousins. God always justifies himself and his word!)

I would ask you to examine those verses and try to justify your own interpretations in light of what you are hearing now - not what you have been misled to believe!

Try these:

1. ‘I Am’ is NOT the name of God
2. Try putting your another name in that sentence:
   1. ‘Before Abraham, SA Huguenot’
   2. ‘Before Sojouner, Soapy’
   3. ‘Before Adam, Jesus’

Make sense? And those ARE NAMES!
‘I Am’ is the MEANING of the NAME ‘YHWH’.
Try putting the meaning of another name in that frame:

• ‘Before Andrew, The Rock’ instead of ‘Before Andrew, Peter’
• ‘Before Judas, Didymus’ instead of ‘Before Judas, Thomas’

Make sense!? Of course not!

And, what happens in the very next chapter: A man born blind is made to see and is asked if he really is that man - he is sworn to answer in front of a court and answers: ‘I Am’… and even previous to that he answered to others about bring the one who had gained his sight: “I am the man.” (John 9:9).
Wow… ‘GOD the man’ (by trinity claim!!)

Well, please inform me why the Priests condemned Jesus to die?
You will tell me, they did not like Jesus, however, they were sure that Jesus made Himself out as God!
Not because of some explaning to do to get to the claim, but they were sure about their facts.
Remember, they had witnesses that would report to the masses on what Jesus said, and not once did Jesus say...
Hey Priests, jou are wrong, I never said what you claim!

 

[SA Huguenot]

Nice initialization.
I was looking for it, but I don't think you explained in what way Isaac was Abraham's only begotten. Did you?
"the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons" means what exactly?

To me, I understand that God chose Isaac to be the son that Abraham will receive through Sarai, who will be blessed as the ancestor of Jesus.
Even though Abraham had Ishmael first at Hagar, it was God's choice to treat Isaac as Abraham's Only Begotten son.

Therefore, by denoting the Monogenis claim on Isaac, all other siblings did not count due to the meaning intended of it word used, "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind".

Monogenis does not only mean "Only Begotten" but "Only begotten by special relationship".
And this is where the difference lies between simply being the only male child of 2 parents, to...
Being the only child by special relationship.

Something I have in my mind is that the lineage of Eve might have had a roll to play, where it is said that "Her seed" will crush Satan.
There are much more to the eye than what we see.
But, about Eve, it is only my opinion.

The other point on "special relationship, is the Gaeneaology of Jesus in Matthew and Luke.
Mat 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ
versus:
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Luk 3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,

Here we have 2 different lineages of Jesus.
and Muslim scholars such as Ahmad Deedad likes to use this as evidence of Contradiction.
How can the grandfather of Jesus be 2 different people.
Well, if you look closely to the word (as was supposed) in Luke, everything opens up.
Greek "Nomidzo" to be understood as "By Custom, as per Law...
Well, the critisizers of this so called "Contradiction" forgot that they themsel have 2 grandfathers!

Therefore, Grandpa Heli was Jesus' Grand daddy through Mary.
Grandpa Mattan was Jesus' Grand daddy through Joseph, his stepfather.

What makes this so special is that Jesus was King of Israel through the lineage of David, but not in flesh because God prohibited the saviour to come through the lineage of Jechoniah
Jer 22:30 Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
Jechonia did become King, but ruled only 3 Months. I like to say in modern terms he did not complete his probation period.
Anyhow, Jesus was a descendend bu law, King through David,
But the seed of the Woman through Mary's lineage by Nathan, Davis' other son, and not through Solomons son Rehoboam.
Rehoboam and Jechonia did not carry God's approval.

Just sone nice info.

 

[SA Huguenot]

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son..."
He gave his only begotten. He gave his only begotten.

The man sent his limousine to the hotel.
The man sent his limousine. The man sent his limousine.

I am wondering... I don't think I need to go back to school, but... did the son become only begotten after he was sent, or before he was sent.
I don't think the limousine became the man's after he sent it. It was his before.

God sent his only begotten.
In other words, there are other sons, but God sent his only begotten - a direct product of him.

Only begotten - only one brought forth by him directly.
All the other sons were brought forth how?
Colossians 1:16 For by him [the only begotten son] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

TNX, very deep thinking.
The idea is then that Jesus was begotten from the beginning.
Before anything existed.
That would then be the time when only God existed.
I will definately etch this in my mempry for future use.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Did Jesus claim to be God?
(John 14:28) . . .I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. . .

(John 5:19-23) 19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes alive whomever he wants to. 22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

(John 5:30) . . .I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

(John 7:28) . . .I have not come of my own initiative, but the One who sent me is real. . .

(John 8:28, 29) 28 . . .I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”

(John 12:49, 50) 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”

Clearly, no.
One who has to obey another, cannot possibly be the same one they must obey.
God cannot do what God does not want God to do, sound like something someone in a mental asylum would say.
Jesus - God's son - did not speak madness.
He spoke truth.. about God, his father, and God. - Matthew 27:46 ; John 20:17 . . .I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. . .
Revelation 3:2, 12
“‘The one who conquers - I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

Not from His own initiative as Human, but as part of God.
I still have the verses dictating to me that Jesus was with God from the beginning, and He had the Glory with the Father since the beginning, and will have the Glory of the father with Him.
Also, Jesus came from the Father, and only Jesus has seen the Father, and the Father is in Him, and He in the Father.
All the other descriptions are to me complimentary to the way Jesus described Him and the Father.
If one then reads descriptions on I am the Son of God, and the Son of man has the might to forgive sins as an example, it compliments Jesus as the Word of God in the Trinity.
Especially since Jesus also said He is going to the Father, and the Spirit of God will come to the apostles, for if He does not go to the Father, the Spirit will not be able to come to them.

This gives me the idea, and remember, it is my idea!
That the Father can not be without one of 2 attributes.
Either the Father and the Word, or the Father and the Spirit must be in each other's existence.
The Spirit left the Father and hovered above the waters, or entered the congregation and flames were seen above their heads.
And the Father spoke from heaven at the baptism, and the spirit was seen descending above Jesus.
They must be close together, or one has the power to enter creation, whilst 2 remains in heaven.

Obviously, the Father and the Spirit was in heaven when Jesus was on Earth.

But again, it is my understanding.
I realy dont want to make this out as fact, but my believe in my reading.

 

[Soapy]

Well, please inform me why the Priests condemned Jesus to die?
You will tell me, they did not like Jesus, however, they were sure that Jesus made Himself out as God!
Not because of some explaning to do to get to the claim, but they were sure about their facts.
Remember, they had witnesses that would report to the masses on what Jesus said, and not once did Jesus say...
Hey Priests, jou are wrong, I never said what you claim!

I’m not sure what you are reading but if is clear that Jesus’ revelation and testament about the Father (YHWH) was causing controversy in Jerusalem and the provinces. The ruling Romans hated any kind of trouble and rioting even worse and they would take drastic action against the Jews who were responsible. The Romans made an agreement that the Jews could practice their Judaism belief (the Romans tried and failed to force the Jews to worship the Roman Gods) and impose their own punishment in that regard (only stoning for blasphemy against YHWH God was allowed). Since Jesus appeared to have a plausible reason for everything he did and somehow evade efforts to stone him, there was growing support for his [new] belief - which disrupted the mainstream and current belief. As is written, this could lead to a riot or riots which would bring the Roman detachment to claim the agreement had been broken and full Roman rule would overtake the nation:

• “If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation. …. You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.” (John 11:48 & 50)

I also notice that you suddenly changed one of your quotes to say ‘YHWH’ instead of ‘God’.

I know why you did that.

And so do you!

• “John, who lived with Jesus, knew Jesus much more than we do, and he was 100% of fact that Jesus created everything, and was the Word of YHWH!
  John 17: 5 Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
  
  John therefore opened his recollection on Jesus' life with
  In the beginnig was the Word...
  And the Word was with God...
  And the word was God...
  And everything was created by Him...
  And the Word became flesh, and lived amongst us...”

It is certain that God IS ‘YHWH’.

‘YHWH’ is the name of the ‘The Father of mankind and all created things’: the one true God….

‘JESUS’ is the name of the only human Son of GOD.

What does ‘Father’ mean? What does ‘Son’ mean?

John 17:5 is claimed BY TRINITARIANS to be saying that Jesus existed WITH GOD…. and had glory WITH GOD before creation. But how can that be - GOD IS SAID TO HAVE BEEN ALONE before any creation (including the Angels).

Didn't you yourself say:

• “I still have the verses dictating to me that Jesus was with God from the beginning,”

Trinity claim is that:

• “God” is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
• ‘Jesus’ is “God”

Would you agree that this would mean that, therefore:

• ‘Jesus’ is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’

If not, please explain why not. Thank you!

 

[muhammad_isa]

The idea is then that Jesus was begotten from the beginning.
Before anything existed.

..whereas in reality, Jesus only became 'begotten' from the Nicean creed onwards.

Clearly, there was some sort of power struggle going on.
Jesus was on the side of the 'underdogs' ..
..I think I'll stick with the so-called Arians.

 

[SA Huguenot]

How is son of God the same as he is God?
You are quoting scripture, but saying something completely different to what's quoted.

Who are the one that will destroy Satan and his daemons?
A Prophet?
A Human?
or God Himself?

I also take into consideration the words of Jesus when Satan:
The Word of God gives Life
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Satan thought if he could use the hunger of Jesus the human Man, Jesus would use His divine powers to make stones into bread.
If Jesus would have done that, Satan would have achieved the Human Jesus to have followed an instruction from Sayan, and just as with Adam, Jesus would have been condemned.
I shudder to think what would have happened with the Divine Word, if the fleshly Jesus was caught in this deception and the human body of Christ were not to have died and ressurected to save our immortal spirits from the kingdom of death where all human spirits dwell untill the ressurection.
Jesus actually told Satan that it is not bread that gives life, but the Word! He told Satan that "I give life!"

Do not tempt Me!
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

When Satan says that He will give His angels to save Jesus the human (working on human fear), if you are the Son of God..
Jesus' answer was in reality, Thou shall not tempt God (Me)
Just think how, if Jesus would have asked the Father to send Him angels to help him, would have diminished His might in the face of Satan.
Satan would have stood in the Face of YHWH telling Him how even His Word was subjected to his instructions.

Serve Me!
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Satan thought it will be easy to have Jesus, the human that can easily be tempted, to rather be king over the whole world, if only Jesus would worship him.
However, Jesus the God told him, Worship Me!

Again, this is my observations, and thinking.
But the bigger picture shows me to what intensity the Word, or Son of God, has on the Spiritual and Created realm.
Again, my observations and opinions.
perhaps someone can use it in their spiritual life.
However, do take precaustion in my words that ...
it is my opinion.
I dont want to answer to God one day if I was wrong, and people were lost becauser of my doing.
Greetings

 

[SA Huguenot]

..whereas in reality, Jesus only became 'begotten' from the Nicean creed onwards.

Clearly, there was some sort of power struggle going on.
Jesus was on the side of the 'underdogs' ..
..I think I'll stick with the so-called Arians.

Nicean Creed = 325 AD.
NT Writings = 45 to 100 Ad.
OT Writings = prior to 350 Ad.
Nope, the Nicean creed did not invent the Trinity, nor the word Monogenis.
They took the OT and the NT, and formulated the divinity of Christ after Gnostisism attempted to deny the fact that Jesus was believed to be God by the Apostles and first Christians.

Any person thinking the Nicean Creed was the first time where Jesus was made a god, surely does not know:

1. The Bible
2. the early chirch writings
3. the councill of Nicea's history.
4. Eusebius' writings on the Nicea council..

No pal, Ahmad Deedad and Yusuf Ismail loved to use this excuse.
If anyone uses the argument that the Nicean creed tried to make Jesus a god, it is evidence of total ignorance as well as total propagandist bias.
Greetings.

 

[SA Huguenot]

And he has still not answered but ran away like a coward at play. He gives it out, criticizes beliefs, bashes others for theirs EVEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG, and yet, when I ask him ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, he takes to his heels and runs like a cowardly chicken.

This is what is wrong...prove you are sincere in your religion. Discuss normally with proofs to back up your arguments. This is how an intelligent person carries on with a good dialogue. Not bash and in return go hide til it all blows over then come back on another topic and start criticizing yet again. I do think the devil gets into the minds and evilness just has to show its ugliness. But come on, my question was completely legit since he was calling on mine and I gave him proofs, and when I called him on his, he runs. What a coward.

Here is the meaning of Begotten.
I have sent it a few times already pal.
You just do not respond on what I said.

Begotten
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind."
What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son? | GotQuestions.org

 

[MyM]

Begottten is pretty simple. It's the past participle of the verb begat and basically means you are a direct descendant of something or someone. My only begotten son would be my only male biological child. Jesus being the only begotten son of God would make Jesus the direct descendant of God, a product of him.

and what about David?

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psalms 2:7

 

[MyM]

Here is the meaning of Begotten.
I have sent it a few times already pal.
You just do not respond on what I said.

Begotten
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind."
What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son? | GotQuestions.org

I asked for the meaning of the word. I don't want an explanation.

Explain to me how Jesus got to be begotten. How did it happen? The word begotten. How does God beget?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Nicean Creed = 325 AD.
NT Writings = 45 to 100 Ad.
OT Writings = prior to 350 Ad.
Nope, the Nicean creed did not invent the Trinity, nor the word Monogenis.
They took the OT and the NT, and formulated the divinity of Christ .

The word "begotten" is an English word. It does not mean 'monogenis'.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
...
Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

..I am on the side of the underdogs. I don't like to be told what I have to believe by councils arranged by politicians.

 

[Soapy]

..whereas in reality, Jesus only became 'begotten' from the Nicean creed onwards.

Clearly, there was some sort of power struggle going on.
Jesus was on the side of the 'underdogs' ..
..I think I'll stick with the so-called Arians.

Can I suggest the simple statement that ‘Begotten’ means ‘Taken up (To Become/Belong To as in An Adoption or Possession)’ which tallies with GOD saying to Jesus:

• ‘You are my Son - THIS DAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER’
• God ‘took up’ Jesus as his possession as a Son

‘Begat, Begot, Begotten’

Apostle Paul ‘Begat’ the run-a-way slave, Onesimus, as his own Son (Philemon 10):

• “I exhort you for my Son whom I have begotten in chains, Onesimus… ”

Onesimus’ master was Philemon. Paul ‘took up’ Onesimus as his own Son when Onesimus found Paul in prison and reverently and fully carried out all the works that Paul set him to do.

This ‘Son’ (Onesimus) of his ‘Father’ (in Spirit/Faith: Adoption - not procreation) is expressed also by Jesus who told the Jews that he was fully and reverently doing the works of God and therefore ‘God is my Father’:

• “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.” (John 10:36-37)

Please also take note of the bolded text: Being ‘Set Apart’ is a CONSECRATION - which was the ANOINTING - So Jesus is identifying himself as the one who was anointed BY GOD at the river Jordan. And, although not a part of the discussion (yet!) - please note CAREFULLY that it was at this point and afterwards THAT GOD SENT JESUS INTO THE WORLD. (See also Acts 10:37:38)

Trinitarians will try to tell you that Jesus was SENT FROM HEAVEN BY GOD!! You see here that it’s not true. The sending was after Jesus was appointed as King, and High Priest at his anointing - an anointing which is the traditional Jewish act carried out to announce a person as a new King and/or Priest. Note even more carefully that Jesus had done NOTHING noteworthy before this point despite his mother’s attempt to pressure him! “His time had not yet come!”.

And as for ‘Having Glory WITH GOD (how can he BE GOD and be WITH GOD!) from the beginning’?

This is a crudely corrupted verse BY TRINITARIAN TRANSLATORS. The true verse says that Jesus is requesting the prize that AWAITED the one who fulfilled the prophesies that were from the beginning. Jesus is saying that he HAS NOW fulfilled those prophesies and is deserving of that reward/prize.

It would be interesting to see what a trinitarian has to say about the ‘Prize’ (Glory) that Jesus is supposed to have had with God… seeing that, obviously Jesus does not have the glory / prize / reward at that point … YET TRINITARIANS SAY HE IS GOD… God who HAS THE reward / Prize / Glory???

“Give me now what I already have and have always had???

How desperate is language, linguistics, reality, and truth, to produce such an unsubstantiated, squalid and nonsensical belief. And yet still believe that God is ‘Tawhid’

Did Jesus or anyone in scriptures say that Jesus is God, that Jesus is tawhid - No! Jesus did say that he and the Father ‘Are ONE’… how many Trinitarians are rushing to say that Jesus IS the Father… yet, if Jesus HAD SAID: ‘I and GOD’ are ONE …. But he didn’t and nor did anyone else in scriptures!

 

[MyM]

Here is the meaning of Begotten.
I have sent it a few times already pal.
You just do not respond on what I said.

Begotten
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind."
What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son? | GotQuestions.org

HOW DOES GOD BEGET? EXPLAIN WHAT DOES THE WORD MEAN????

Your definition isn't a definition. THAT ISN'T THE MEANING OF THE WORD AND YOU KNOW IT. WHAT IS BEGOTTEN?

 

[SA Huguenot]

I asked for the meaning of the word. I don't want an explanation.

Explain to me how Jesus got to be begotten. How did it happen?

I gave you the meaning.
Now you want an explanation.
You should realy clarify what you want.
I have been giving the meaning over and over, only to learn now you want to know how it happened that Jesus became the "monogenes" son of God.

Well, the Bible say that the Spirit of God will come over Mary, and she will be found with a Child.
If I look at other instances where the Spirit of God came over people, I find that their bodies changed in various ways such as Samson getting stronger, and diseases leaving their bodies etc.

Therefore the way Jesus was begotten was as such.
The Angel announced to Mary theat the Spirit of God will come over her :

Luke 1: 30: The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Luke 1: 31 And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus.
Luke 1: 34: Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luke 1: 35: The angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

The other reference is in:
Matt 1:18: Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[SA Huguenot]

HOW DOES GOD BEGET? EXPLAIN WHAT DOES THE WORD MEAN????

Your definition isn't a definition. THAT ISN'T THE MEANING OF THE WORD AND YOU KNOW IT. WHAT IS BEGOTTEN?

I did post it to you.
Why do you shout?