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Behind the killing of 8 Gazan family members

YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Jayhawker Soule said:
  1. Israelis are not monolithic.
  2. What if Hamas was replaced by responsible leaders uncompromisingly opposed to both terrorism and oppression?
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How dare you bring reasonable thought into a discussion about Israel and Hamas. What are you thinking? :thud:

Seriously though, I've wondered for a very long time why option 2 has never seriously been addressed by the Hamas. My guess is that they can milk conflict more that they can peaceful means.
 
ametist

ametist

Active Member
ANything that would replace hamas would still be considered unreasonable unless they want exactly what israel wants..if that makes any sense to you.

is there a country called israel?
is there a country called palestine? why many people would wait to answer the second question?

whose legitimacy problem is this exactly?some peaceful leaders worked in the past through peaceful means but still nothing could avoid their diminishing lands. whole world isnt seeing so lets go and have our buildings on the terrioty reserved for palestinian. International playersdid a lot to contribute to this conflict and also they closed their eyes when people from the other side are dying. this hasnt got anything to with love for humanity, value given to human life or being close to god. now it is aceeptable to understand why palestine doesnt want exactly what israle wants.

I also dont think anything related with this topic is funny at all. When those bomb sirens are blowing it is a suffering for a mother in israel thinking where her child is, just as it is a pain to live in constant conflict for their land for palestinians for years and lifetimes.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
There are only three forces even remotely in a position to rule Gaza: Hamas, Fatah, and the IDF. Any attempt by the latter to occupy Gaza will prove a geo-political and humanitarian disaster.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Jayhawker Soule said:
There are only three forces even remotely in a position to rule Gaza: Hamas, Fatah, and the IDF. Any attempt by the latter to occupy Gaza will prove a geo-political and humanitarian disaster.
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I agree 100% Jay, but sadly, neither Fatah or the Hamas are up to the task either. And now that the Hamas and Islamic Jihad have joined with the PLO/Fatah to form a "unity" government, America now is financially supporting terrorists fighting Israel.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Given the growing concern about Hamas/Hezbollah/MuslimBrotherood/ISIS/etc. in the region a democratically elected Fatah regime could conceivably garner significant support from places like Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, etc., but getting to that point seems unlikely.

As for the 'unity' government, it's a bit hard (and, perhaps, disingenuous) to dismiss Abbas because he represents only the West Bank and then dismiss Abbas when he tries to remedy that situation. Had Netanyahu not sabotaged the talks, there is every reason to believe that Hamas would have worked ceaselessly to sabotage the very 'unity' government that Netanyahu disparages.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Jayhawker Soule said:
As for the 'unity' government, it's a bit hard (and, perhaps, disingenuous) to dismiss Abbas because he represents only the West Bank and then dismiss Abbas when he tries to remedy that situation. Had Netanyahu not sabotaged the talks, there is every reason to believe that Hamas would have worked ceaselessly to sabotage the very 'unity' government that Netanyahu disparages.
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It doesn't help the fact that Abbas has now exceeded his elected term by more than 5 years...
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Jayhawker Soule said:
There are only three forces even remotely in a position to rule Gaza: Hamas, Fatah, and the IDF. Any attempt by the latter to occupy Gaza will prove a geo-political and humanitarian disaster.
Click to expand...
Is this a pre-Isis guess?
Or is it just what you are used to believing?

I believe Isis could easily be top dog in Gaza by the fall. Hamas has little to offer Gazans beyond yet more suffering for the Cause. They used to, but that was then and this is now.

Tom
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Jayhawker Soule said:
According to the article:One can dispute the accuracy of the comment and I am certainly in no position to confirm its accuracy. But, if you accept its accuracy (if only for the sake of argument), then:
  • this tragedy has absolutely nothing to do with collective punishment,
  • destroying the headquarters of the Khan Yunis company commander does, in fact, serve a legitimate military function, and
  • apparently every effort was made to avoid "the destruction of a whole life of the family" (which, by the way, is more than one can say for Odeh Kaware, who chose to embed his headquarters in his home).
Do you truly acknowledge no culpability on the part of Hamas and Kaware?
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Click to expand...

Did they get Odeh?
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
ametist said:
Bombing a place trying to save people in it? I dont know what to say. Too much extra bombs?
In last past week many people were killed there. 43 last i heard. What happened to them? Accidently fall on a gun or bomb? Can you kill yourself out of fun or deceive somebody? How can you believe such a thing just to avoid severity of situation or guilt?
When those 3 young students were killed(i was really saddened by the incident) and god knows by who,israil uttered a revenge oath and blamed their neighbour again as a rule. there are ordinary innocent people living there.Yes much to digest there.
Universal law of punishment :you cant punish somebody else for the crime of another. Killing of those three students was a trap set by who god knows. May god forgive those people who justify all the brutality and ideas of revenge on wrong people.
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Hello? Hamas, the palestinian elected government took credit for the death of the teens.

They also glorified the murderers.

The big difference is that the palestinians glorify their mass murderers and name streets after them. On the other hand Israel condemns acts of Israeli's who kill arab civilians intentionally.
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
ISIS in Gaza? Where does this weird idea even come from?

How would they even get there? And who would provide their weapons and supplies? I get the feeling that Iran kinda doesnt want to supply them like PIJ and Hamas.
 
G

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Death toll to date:
Jews 0
Arabs 120 (including 22 children, and 2 disabled people when a clinic was bombed)

And this has nothing to do with collective punishment? Collective punishment is enshrined in the Jewish scriptures: read the Book of Joshua. What does 'herem' mean in that text, other than genocide? And don't say Joshua's fiction: even if it never happened, it's what the authors wanted to have happened.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
DavidMcCann said:
Death toll to date:
Jews 0
Arabs 120 (including 22 children, and 2 disabled people when a clinic was bombed)

And this has nothing to do with collective punishment?
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One could argue that it has everything to do do with collective punishment inflicted on a civilian population by using it to shield terrorist launch sites and command and control centers. If anything, the death statistics indicate the success of extreme efforts aimed at minimizing civilian casualties.

But tell us: just how would you suggest that Israel respond to Palestinian rocket attacks? Or are you simply hoping for a greater number of Israeli casualties? So, for example, would you be happier if the rockets hit schools and restaurants? Or do you prefer the good old days of blowing up buses, falafel stands, and the occasional bar mitzvah parties?
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
ISIS in Gaza? Where does this weird idea even come from?
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Where was Isis this time last year?

What would cement their position as leaders of the Muslim world better than doing unto Israel as they are doing unto Iraq and Syria?

Why do Zionists keep their heads in the sand?

Tom
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
DavidMcCann said:
Death toll to date:
Jews 0
Arabs 120 (including 22 children, and 2 disabled people when a clinic was bombed)

And this has nothing to do with collective punishment? Collective punishment is enshrined in the Jewish scriptures: read the Book of Joshua. What does 'herem' mean in that text, other than genocide? And don't say Joshua's fiction: even if it never happened, it's what the authors wanted to have happened.
Click to expand...

It seems likely to me that 120 dead, including non-combatants, indicates the Israelis are making significant efforts to avoid non-combatant casualties. In every modern war, the number of non-combatants killed has usually been multiples of the number of combatants killed. The death of non-combatants is tragic, but my hunch is the number would be much higher if the Israelis were pursuing a policy of collective punishment in this case.
 
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