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Being "transgender" is a form of gender stereotyping.

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
"Transgender" is a nearly meaningless umbrella term that means whatever you want it to mean. That's why I stopped using it and think that it coming into popular use was a very bad move. Your criticism does apply to some aspects of the transgender movement, but not transsexualism. It's transsexualism that's the medical condition and I think that's what the OP is referring to.

Transsexualism has nothing to do with social roles or culture. It's a biological condition where the brain in utero gets hit with cross sex hormones (i.e. the wrong hormones relative to the chromosomal sex). So a female fetus' brain gets hit with testosterone, which causes their brain to masculinize (i.e. to become a male brain, since male and female brains are objectively different in size and structure). (A simple test of this is the digit ratio. A male has a shorter index finger relative to his ring finger due to the effects of high testosterone exposure in the womb, and the same is true for me.) This is the cause of sex dysphoria (a more accurate term than "gender" dysphoria) because the brain expects the body to be a certain way (brain map) and it's the opposite of what it expects (similar to phantom limb syndrome; some transsexual men are known to have phantom penis syndrome, for example). For example, for female to male transsexuals (since that's what I am), having breasts, female genitals, menses, being pregnant, lack of male primary and secondary characteristics are all sources of deep distress (dyphoria). So that's why we undergo hormone therapy and surgeries, to relieve our sex dysphoria. The social transition is really secondary because the primary problem is with our bodies. Sure, it's nice to be socially recognized as a male because that's what I am and it helps to be seen as you are, but testosterone therapy tends to take care of that by itself. Lol.

To sum it up, transsexualism is a sex differentiation disorder. It's similar to intersex conditions in some ways except that it doesn't seem to be a chromosomal abnormality. It's a problem that only medical science can solve since there's really no way to change a person's brain sex but the rest of the body can be changed in drastic ways.

It has nothing to do with "feeling" masculine or feminine. That's abstract nonsense. A butch woman is not a man and a fem man is not a woman. Many trans men try to live as butch lesbians for a time but it doesn't work out because it's not the same as being a man (vice versa with trans women, many of whom live as fem gay men before transitioning to female). Chaz Bono is an example of the former and Carmen Carrera is an example of the latter.
 
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gnomon

Well-Known Member
Yes I am labelled schizophrenia, but I am not that, I am much more than a label.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I've been labeled Manic-Depressive and Schizophrenic. Love that Lithium.

It's the issue of labels on this topic.

Gender is a socially constructed topic.

Sexuality is a biologically dependent topic.

I desire a proper focus on the distinction. Especially given how the Intersex have been ignored by not only the conservative communities but the LGBT community as well. That is, at least, how I perceive it.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Also, I should add that, as a transsexual man, I've never perceived myself as a female going back to my earliest memories. When I was a kid, I viewed myself as a boy and did stuff common for boys. I hated wearing dresses and never was into putting on makeup and I only shaved my legs and armpits when I had to be around girls my age because I didn't want to be laughed at (not that that alone means anything, but it's part of the picture). All my friends were boys and we did guy things. The dysphoria really hit me during puberty. It's funny that that's the time when I fell into a deep clinical depression that I'm still trying to beat. I didn't have the language to describe what I was going through internally because I didn't know anything about transsexualism. I thought I was just screwed in the head and so never talked about it. I was raised around gay men and lesbians so that was easy for me to understand, but didn't meet a trans person until I was in high school. It was in my late teens when I really learned what transsexualism was and that that is what described me. I went through a period when I thought I was a lesbian, but that didn't last long and I never really had anything to do with the lesbian community. I had always felt much closer and was more involved in the gay male community. (Most of my male friends have been gay or bi.)
 
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psychoslice

Veteran Member
That is ideal, but because my body was born with such turmoil I do identify as a transwoman. Though I like to ignore the "trans" part, the facts are, as I like to put as a part of psychodrama that is really nothing more than a grandiose exhibition that is nothing more than self-gratifying running of my imagination that builds on the shock that Alice Cooper taught me to appreciate, I was born with a cursed body that has betrayed me. I am a woman. I have nearly killed myself over that fact. But, I can't help it if the gods hate me. (don't think too much into it: if you are a metal head, it should make sense, if not, don't over think it.)
Yes I remember when I was a little boy I use to think I was a girl, maybe because my mum wanted a girl and because she didn't get one she treated me like one, she use to put little girls cloths on me. So I grew up confused, one time in my life as a boy I would cut my penis, wanting to cut it off, but didn't thank god, mmmm, yes it all can be confusing.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yes I remember when I was a little boy I use to think I was a girl, maybe because my mum wanted a girl and because she didn't get one she treated me like one, she use to put little girls cloths on me. So I grew up confused, one time in my life as a boy I would cut my penis, wanting to cut it off, but didn't thank god, mmmm, yes it all can be confusing.
When I was younger, I attempted to cut on my penis, but even just starting was painful (as I told my therapist, back then, I didn't understand or know of the concept of a quick and clean slice.). As an adult, I have thought through the process of self-castration. In all reality, I know enough to most likely be able to achieve it. I have put many, many, many hours into contemplating this. But, ultimately, the "Spock reasoning" as I mentioned earlier has prevented me from doing so (in MtF genital surgery, the scrotum is used to form the labia, but without testicles the scrotum atrophies and shrinks).
My mom wanted another girl, my sister wanted a sister. But that is not what they got at my birth.
And, I have to ask, if you don't mind, how old are you? It really wasn't that long ago when parents would dress both boys in girls in things that, today, would be considered dresses. Although Earnest Hemingway had a very unusual upbringing, how his mother dressed him as a child was not that unusual or uncommon for a child of his day.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
When I was younger, I attempted to cut on my penis, but even just starting was painful (as I told my therapist, back then, I didn't understand or know of the concept of a quick and clean slice.). As an adult, I have thought through the process of self-castration. In all reality, I know enough to most likely be able to achieve it. I have put many, many, many hours into contemplating this. But, ultimately, the "Spock reasoning" as I mentioned earlier has prevented me from doing so (in MtF genital surgery, the scrotum is used to form the labia, but without testicles the scrotum atrophies and shrinks).
My mom wanted another girl, my sister wanted a sister. But that is not what they got at my birth.
And, I have to ask, if you don't mind, how old are you? It really wasn't that long ago when parents would dress both boys in girls in things that, today, would be considered dresses. Although Earnest Hemingway had a very unusual upbringing, how his mother dressed him as a child was not that unusual or uncommon for a child of his day.
My god the similarities, ..........yes I am actually 58 years old going onto 14 lol.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
I really appreciate this thread. I have been confused by this myself, and now it makes a lot more sense.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
My mum was a powerful woman, she treated me like a girl for years, she wouldn't let be do guy stuff, like mowing the yard, or anything too physical, that was for my other two brothers. She never liked any girl friends I brought home, and after a girl that I loved left me for another girl I began to dislike girls, or not trusting them. I then became gay and had some relationships with guys never really knowing if I was the girl or the man in the relationship. One time my mum walked into the bathroom while is was drying myself, she then made a pass at me, trying to feel me up, I felt discussed and dirty after that, and since I have been in and out of the mental ward.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
My mum was a powerful woman, she treated me like a girl for years, she wouldn't let be do guy stuff, like mowing the yard, or anything too physical, that was for my other two brothers.
With this, I wouldn't delve too much into similarities. In my family, boys are boys and girls are girls. End of discussion, no questions asked, no ifs-ands-or-buts about it, that is just how it is. My mom has even ridiculed transwomen, and has mocked men whom she she perceives as being "not many enough/too feminine."
You have also said you are schizophrenic, which to my best knowledge there is not one single case of schizophrenia in either side of my family.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
With this, I wouldn't delve too much into similarities. In my family, boys are boys and girls are girls. End of discussion, no questions asked, no ifs-ands-or-buts about it, that is just how it is. My mom has even ridiculed transwomen, and has mocked men whom she she perceives as being "not many enough/too feminine."
You have also said you are schizophrenic, which to my best knowledge there is not one single case of schizophrenia in either side of my family.
MMM, I think I said too much, starting to feel down.......put I'll get back up, yea yea.
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
I'm not exactly sure how this differs from simply pretending something is true that isn't, though that could be from lack of experience. Gender is a specific thing based on ones actual biology. If you have male parts and male chromosomes then you are male, and that's ALL it says. So how is pretending otherwise based on how I feel different from asking someone to acknowledge me as a non-human being (I've actually always felt this lol) or to set a place for my imaginary friend?

That's not true. First, there is abundant evidence of a biological basis for gender or sex identity that is not congruent with apparent biological sex:

The researchers conducted a literature search and reviewed articles that showed positive biologic bases for gender identity. These included disorders of sexual development, such as penile agenesis, neuroanatomical differences, such as grey and white matter studies, and steroid hormone genetics, such as genes associated with sex hormone receptors. They conclude that current data suggests a biological etiology for transgender identity.

This paper represents the first comprehensive review of the scientific evidence that gender identity is a biological phenomenon,” explains corresponding author Joshua D. Safer, MD, FACP. “As such it provides one of the most convincing arguments to date for all medical providers to gain the transgender medicine skills necessary to provide good care for these individuals,” he added.


Second, it is not all about the presence of a Y chromosome or even anatomically male parts, as intersex is an actual condition. As this article from PP explains:

It is common to believe that all people fall into one of two categories — female or male. But that is not true. Some people are born with external sex organs that are not easily identifiable as female or male. Other people have sex chromosomes that are different from the usual XX (female) or XY (male). People whose biological sex is not clear in these ways have intersex conditions. About 1 in 2,000 people born in the U.S. is intersex. There are many different ways that intersex conditions appear. Genitals that are not easily identifiable as female or male are sometimes apparent at birth. But sometimes it is not obvious until puberty. People with intersex conditions may be considered sexually ambiguous in different ways...

Moreover, this is all intertwined with sexual orientation: Women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia are more likely to exhibit bisexual or homosexual orientation, while men with CAH do not exhibit any increased probability of homosexual or bisexual orientation.

The bottom line is this: There are strong signs that there are sex differences that are not apparent from chromosomes and anatomy (what that means for gender is another story). The causal mechanisms are complex and unclear, but we clearly have a significant percentage of the population that experiences a gender or sexual identity distinct from the one assigned at birth based on chromosomes, hormones and anatomy. There's usually no clear postnatal socialization explanation for this either, which is similar to the issue of sexual orientation.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
.......................Gender is a specific thing based on ones actual biology......................
Excuse me for snatching that one sentence out, but it's the only one I can respond to.
Gender can be specific, (but not always).
However, Sexuality is one whole other separate story.
There is no fixed specification for sexuality. :)
Emancipated cultures must recognise (and support) every individual's right to self identify with their sexuality, whatever that may be.
There's not a lot we can do for other, subjugated peoples at this time.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
You said you wouldn't tell!

Anyway, gender identity is not about stereotypes, but rather having a mind which is not the same gender as one's body...IMO.
Must be very rough.

.... you don't really.....? You know, ride around on your combo in high heels and stuff?
Go on!..... Give us a pic!!! :D

........... I'm sure that it is tough for many transgenders and intersexuals, but it's amazing when the brave and confident ones introduce themselves to the world.

We're never going to succeed, are we? ............ eradicating.... even reducing....... bigotry, prejudice and hatred?
What can you/we do?
 
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