Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
So many colorful ideas invented out of the fear of not existing.
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Belief and afterlife
- Thread starter YAW7911
- Start date
What's to fear?
Some people die in their sleep, which is painless, others in accidents where they might suffer intense pain for a short time before they die. Women go through unbearable pain when giving birth, and they manage to cope. I don't imagine death being any worse on the pain scale. Go to a end of life hospice or critical illness ward and you'll notice those who are closest to death are mostly unconscious. They are usually pumped with morphine, so feel no pain. Close your eyes and drift off.
If our Scriptures said, there was no afterlife, but you should refrain from alcohol and certain meats for your own health and well being, people would still follow those instructions. Similarly if the only benefit from praying and meditating was to improve the mind and body, people would follow.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I don't know. You have to ask all the people who invent afterlives because they are afraid of not existing.
No, there isn't. There is no creator in my religion, as you would think of it. The Cosmos creates, perpetuates and destroys itself. There is nothing outside of the Cosmos as the Cosmos are the totality of all that exists. There is no almighty or omni-whatever deity in European Paganism.
Ok fair enough, I was thinking of a Pagan lady I knew who used to use tarot cards and crystals, she had a spirit guide and acknowledged there was a Supreme Being above everything. Clearly Paganism is wide and diverse just like organised Religions.
How does that work? Is the Cosmos conscious and able to create using intelligence and reasoning?
She sounds New Age, not Pagan.
I amended my post with a question for you.
I'm an animist. I believe everything is alive and conscious in its own way. Everything has an animating spirit - from a cell to a star.
Ok let's look at that concept.
At some point we didn't exist
The Earth didn't exist
The Universe didn't exist
So what caused this all to come about?
Your answer must be a uncaused consciousness, and I would agree, only we Theists call it God.
A singularity existed. There has never been "nothing". In my religion, this present universe was born from the collapse of a previous universe and it will happen again in an eternal cycle. There is no transcendent creator entity needed and the concept makes no sense.
Let me help you if I may...
The idea of something and nothing are used by humans to explain things. Humans have to make sense of the World and the Cosmos based on the Laws we live by, everything has a beginning and end, something can not come from nothing. But what happens when we step outside of time and space? Your Singularity, which I call God resides there unconstrained by the rules of the Cosmos. Your singularity must be there otherwise the rules of the cosmos dictate your singularity must have a cause, and that cause must have a cause, and so you have infinite regression. In such a scenario, nothing can come into being.
You say the universe will collapse, and this theory is supported by Science. The Singularity mentions this in a book it revealed to a 7th Century Arab:
The Big Crunch:
Scientific hypothesis of the Big Crunch is indicated in the Qur'an:
That Day We will fold up heaven like folding up the pages of a book. As We originated the first creation so We will regenerate it. It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do. (Qur'an, 21:104)
In another verse, this state of the heavens is described thus:
They do not measure Allah with His true measure. The whole earth will be a mere handful for Him on the Day of Rising the heavens folded up in His right hand. Glory be to Him! He is exalted above the partners they ascribe! (Qur'an, 39:67)
According to the Big Crunch theory, the universe will begin to collapse slowly and will then increasingly pick up speed. At the end of the process the universe will have infinite density and be infinitely hot and small. This scientific theory runs parallel to the Qur'anic explanation of this particular scientific concept.
A singularity is a state of matter. It's not something removed from the Cosmos or without laws. I'm not buying what you're trying to sell.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
if we are the universe we are screwed. if by chance we are born of a competing reality of life than we might live on forever. The logic is there for us to know we are created or spawned of life forces. I believe consciousness is fundamental to reality, you can't destroy it. I wish there was a way to prove it all though.
infinity of existence must be true.
with infinity comes infinite possibilities.
there may even be total else existences, with different laws and natures.
virtually anything is possible except for where we live. if humans are possible in a possibleless place, why not anything.
infinity of existence must be true.
with infinity comes infinite possibilities.
there may even be total else existences, with different laws and natures.
virtually anything is possible except for where we live. if humans are possible in a possibleless place, why not anything.
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It's not about buying what I'm selling. it's about explaining your beliefs, and I'm sorry but yours make little sense. First it was a initial singularity consciousness, which I proved had to exist outside of time and place, and now it's a state of matter, and we know matter exists within the Cosmos, so we're back to what caused the matter to come into being. :/
Ultimately you rationalise these issues in your mind and it works for you, so carry on.
Peace
No matter "came into being". The matter was there all along. The Big Bang was the expansion of this matter.
I never said it was a "singularity consciousness", whatever that is. You were the one trying to equate the singularity with your God, which I suppose would make you some sort of pantheist.
Evidence please.
You said that the Cosmos came from a singularity. You also said everything has a consciousness. Did this Singularity of yours have consciousness or not?
As you say, Humans have consciousness, but please show me how your consciousness can create something intelligent from absolutely nothing.
Clearly consciousness by itself can not create anything. It requires a will, intelligence and copious amounts of Power, enough to create a Universe. What kind of Almighty Being does this sound like?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Ever heard of metaphysical theory that we live inside GOD's dream? (purposed in Greek times but hard to trace the exact origin. Greeks are well aware that Zeus, while very powerful, is not the creator of everything) And beings and existence are different level of manifestation of that dream, and a bad subconscious means we are all screwed. Note the important thing here is that GOD is not in an active state. At the same time it is normal for deities, who are higher existence than us, to have blessed mortal. I am simply offended by Monotheist's claim that their God, whose traits resemble much of other deity, is actually GOD, and that a man whose feats are hardly impressive by supernatural standard must be worshiped or all else deserve to be damned.
Mind being a bit specific cause in some religions there are entities in lore predates the active pantheons but dies or was never senpient in the first place. That said, there is a good chance that the world is composed of information.