Belief in a Personal God is very bad news

[shmogie]

The highest amount of unwanted pregnancies and broken families are in religiously conservative Christian communities which take a dim view of contraception and the education to use it properly, or places where people are just too poor to have contraceptives accessible even if they want to use it. Just saying. I'd worry more about poverty and adequate healthcare than whether they're classically theist on those accounts.

Citations, statistics, studies, please

 

[loverofhumanity]

And what of those who never hear of this prophet and god's requirements, OR those who have only heard of him through incompetent, ineffectual preachers, and remain unconvinced? Is this their fault?

.

God is more friend to us than we are to ourselves. There’s no automatic pass to heaven for Baha’is either. We are not saved just by believing. A non Baha’i may be saved so to speak while a 50 year Baha’i may not be.

The man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand, a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years, and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. An ugly man may call himself handsome, but he deceives no one, and a black man may call himself white, yet he deceives no one, not even himself. (Baha’i Writings)

 

[danieldemol]

Most people are pretty decent folks. The Hitlers, of this world are a small minority.

Exactly, the Hitlers of this world are outliers, and created in certain unique environments, so it would be wrong to judge the collective achievements of individual human conscience by its outliers

 

[loverofhumanity]

I did not say that there is no actual God: whether God 'appears' or not is up to the individual.

Thank you for helping me to learn something about your perspective. Any literature I may consult to become better acquainted? Thank you. I really enjoyed your posts here. Very interesting concept.

 

[shmogie]

God is more friend to us than we are to ourselves. There’s no automatic pass to heaven for Baha’is either. We are not saved just by believing. A non Baha’i may be saved so to speak while a 50 year Baha’i may not be.

The man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand, a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years, and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. An ugly man may call himself handsome, but he deceives no one, and a black man may call himself white, yet he deceives no one, not even himself. (Baha’i Writings)

So, the same old song, just work real hard, do the right things, and when you jump through enough hoops, God accepts you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, the same old song, just work real hard, do the right things, and when you jump through enough hoops, God accepts you.

God loves and accepts us always.

 

[Kenny]

God exists but is very bad news for humans to have to contend with.

God takes away ones freedom to act to ones one satisfaction on what is right or wrong, good or bad as duties. We humans are capable of looking after our own affairs without such guidance and imposition. It makes life more interesting if we make mistakes and try and resolve our problems by consulting each other and agreeing a joint path for mankind.

The correct method that works for me is to rely on my Consciousness to guide me as God does not insist that we subscribe to Him for our intelligence and wisdom. My Consciousness has always led me on the right path in terms of duties and righteous actions on a daily basis.

So I might as well be an atheist for all intents and purposes.

I wouldn't equate that to atheism as what you are saying, IMV, is that you are your own god.

But I found that God opened up more life for me and made it more interesting.

 

[Brickjectivity]

God exists but is very bad news for humans to have to contend with.

God takes away ones freedom to act to ones one satisfaction on what is right or wrong, good or bad as duties. We humans are capable of looking after our own affairs without such guidance and imposition. It makes life more interesting if we make mistakes and try and resolve our problems by consulting each other and agreeing a joint path for mankind.

The correct method that works for me is to rely on my Consciousness to guide me as God does not insist that we subscribe to Him for our intelligence and wisdom. My Consciousness has always led me on the right path in terms of duties and righteous actions on a daily basis.

So I might as well be an atheist for all intents and purposes.

Do I agree with the complaint? Yes. I agree that humans have to be moral agents who taste and decide what is good. Nevertheless the argument that Consciousness requires this appears to be a fallacious and unnecessary one.

But aren't gods just tools we concoct to focus our minds during meditation or some other religious ritual; just utilitarian murtis?

There are aircraft carriers full of people who think gods are idols. Its something that could use clarification. You can probably assume 80% of people have never heard of murtis. What I mean is that not everybody (including me) knows what you are talking about. What's a Murtis etc.?

OK, then.
There is no actual God. S/He is an illusion.

That is debatable, because it seems like God is merely invisible. Also what is the difference between a being and an illusion? Are there not meanings which only exist in ideas? What is the largest and most complex idea possible?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, the same old song, just work real hard, do the right things, and when you jump through enough hoops, God accepts you.

Let me put it in your terms. If a person says they’re saved but hates others are they really believers or saved? Can we separate believe in Jesus from His commandment to love one another? I don’t believe we can and that this is perhaps the most misunderstood and taken out of context Christian supposition but not based on taking into account all the scriptures. We are all accountable before God. ‘That which we sow we will reap’.

1John 4:20
If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Unless we love others our belief is a lie.

 

[sealchan]

"The temporal lobes are clearly important in religious and spiritual experiences. The amygdala and hippocampus have been shown to be particularly involved in the experience of visions, profound experiences, memory, and meditation." - Andrew Newberg

Yes and it was my temporal lobes.

 

[loverofhumanity]

God exists but is very bad news for humans to have to contend with.

God takes away ones freedom to act to ones one satisfaction on what is right or wrong, good or bad as duties. We humans are capable of looking after our own affairs without such guidance and imposition. It makes life more interesting if we make mistakes and try and resolve our problems by consulting each other and agreeing a joint path for mankind.

The correct method that works for me is to rely on my Consciousness to guide me as God does not insist that we subscribe to Him for our intelligence and wisdom. My Consciousness has always led me on the right path in terms of duties and righteous actions on a daily basis.

So I might as well be an atheist for all intents and purposes.

I understand what you’re saying and God only ‘offers’ guidance by sending Messengers from time to time. No one is forced to accept Them or Their advice but here’s the thing.

Making mistakes and learning from them is one thing but when we have had two world wars with millions and millions killed then isn’t it time to consult an expert as in the One Who created us?

There’s nothing wrong with consulting God if we’re not able to solve our own problems is there? I think the price we’ve paid is high enough and we should try God’s guidance and we try it and don’t like it we can always go back to our wars.

I’m speaking about Baha’u’llah and His guidance on world unity which is very relevant for our age.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Citations, statistics, studies, please

For teens, the highest risk group for unwanted pregnancies and new sti, chances of unwanted pregnancies and sti dramatically increase if they are in low income, are subject to abstinence only education, and are in religiously dominated states.
Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S
https://datadrivenviewpoints.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/1teenpregnancymap.jpg
Religiosity and teen birth rate in the United States
Research Confirms That Abstinence-Only Education Hurts Kids

 

[Shantanu]

God created us, and created laws for our own good. Who are you, the created, questioning the motives of the Creator.

If all followed his word, his laws of the New Testament, humanity would have the best lives possible.

God does leave us alone to do exactly as we choose, and humanity has screwed it up royally. Mass killings, wars, brutal crime, hatreds of all sorts, the fear and possibility of nuclear total destruction and total death, I could go on, but don´t need to.

We have done just fine in rejecting Gods way for our lives, ya think ?

He says he won´t put up with it forever, and that his patience will reach an end.

Knowing the best for us, a time will come when we follow him and his ways, or we cease to exist.

The perogative of the Creator over the fatally flawed by choice created.

If you can show me any evidence that God wishes us humans to lead our lives in accordance with any Holy Books imparted to create religions instead of being in direct consultation with Him as being more reliable, then I will consider that He has made any laws in the past for us humans to abide by.

 

[Shantanu]

Thank you for helping me to learn something about your perspective. Any literature I may consult to become better acquainted? Thank you. I really enjoyed your posts here. Very interesting concept.

God exists but His true nature has yet to be determined by us humans.

 

[Shantanu]

I wouldn't equate that to atheism as what you are saying, IMV, is that you are your own god.

But I found that God opened up more life for me and made it more interesting.

Yes indeed, atheism is not an option to describe Consciousness Brahman as being the source of all my intelligence and wisdom. And it gives me freedom.

 

[loverofhumanity]

God exists but His true nature has yet to be determined by us humans.

Our religion describes God as the ‘unknowable Essence’.

 

[Shantanu]

Our religion describes God as the ‘unknowable Essence’.

In my honest view, nothing is unknowable: one just has to use the right techniques of probing Reality to determine the Nature of God. So I do not know what you mean by the word 'Essence': essence of an individual's life, the universe, Nature, what? Please clarify.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In my honest view, nothing is unknowable: one just has to use the right techniques of probing Reality to determine the Nature of God. So I do not know what you mean by the word 'Essence': essence of an individual's life, the universe, Nature, what? Please clarify.

By essence we mean what God actually is. We know some of His attributes like love, justice, compassion but we don’t know anything about God Himself. All we know are some of His qualities.

So we don’t know anymore than God has attributes. That’s all we know but nothing about His Reality.

 

[Shantanu]

By essence we mean what God actually is. We know some of His attributes like love, justice, compassion but we don’t know anything about God Himself. All we know are some of His qualities.

So we don’t know anymore than God has attributes. That’s all we know but nothing about His Reality.

Do you believe that you are connecting with God directly, instead of through the teachings of the Baha'i' faith?

 

[Valjean]

There are aircraft carriers full of people who think gods are idols. Its something that could use clarification. You can probably assume 80% of people have never heard of murtis. What I mean is that not everybody (including me) knows what you are talking about. What's a Murtis etc.?

A murti's an object or image representing a divine aspect or a "God." Presumably, those using them are aware that they're just religious aids.

That is debatable, because it seems like God is merely invisible. Also what is the difference between a being and an illusion? Are there not meanings which only exist in ideas? What is the largest and most complex idea possible?

Lots of things are invisible but can be detected by other means, but there has never been any detection of a God either by sensors or by effect. Under the onslaught of scientific research, effects previously attributed to Him keep being revealed to have natural, non-intentional explanations.

When I speak of illusions I speak of dreams, and nested realities.
When I sleep I dream of things that do not exist in waking-state, but they're real in my dream level reality.

When awake I experience another subjective reality. I see a laptop in front of me, and cars pass in the street. But waking state is just another level of dream. This world, too, is not objectively Real, and will, like 2nd-state (dream) reality,
disappear when we wake to the next level.

This is what Hindus mean when we speak of Maya (illusion). Our goal isn't salvation, as in the Abrahamic religions, but to wake up.