metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Nice try, but unlike you, I very often use links. OTOH, you use nothing-- and you usually offer nothing, sorry to say.
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Ben Sasse to Trump: Are you 'recanting' oath to protect the First Amendment?
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Now your just a flat out liar. Congrats!
So you are talking about the Visa Waiver program.
To reiterate:
The Visa Waiver program requirement was not a travel ban. It stated that people had to get a Visa to come to the US if they had visited those 7 countries.
Needing a Visa and a blanket ban on entry are completely different things. This is not some "minor detail".
As for the 7 countries, yes, they are the same, and yes, the mainstream media absolutely reported on that, contrary to your accusations.
But that is not the "bones". Let's say that the President after Trump writes an EO that states that anyone in the US from those 7 countries should be immediately placed in internment camps.
Does that mean Trump should be credited for writing an internment camp EO? Would it be Obama's original order?
Of course not. That is ridiculous. That is not how anyone would understand things.
You decry "fake news", but you are absolutely attempting to mislead people by claiming that Obama wrote the travel ban.
Oh look:
CNN talking about the 7 countries
So did the Washington Post!
What? And the BBC?
Newsweek too!
ABC News is in on it too!
Do I need to continue?
So much for Enoch's complaint that the "mainstream media" didn't cover the fact that trump got the list of countries from Obama.
CNN talking about the 7 countries
So did the Washington Post!
What? And the BBC?
Newsweek too!
ABC News is in on it too!
Do I need to continue?
So much for Enoch's complaint that the "mainstream media" didn't cover the fact that trump got the list of countries from Obama.
Well then, if its a true story, it is at the very minimum NOT "fake news." And in a presumed egalitarian nation like the United States, I am not willing to say "who cares" when a very few are treated like royalty. That's the thing about reporting -- tell it like it is, and if nobody cares, you wasted your time. But don't DARE decide that what is not important to you is also not important to anyone else. You are not the be-all and end-all.
And that means that Russia never, ever did anything else either, that it is a totally innocent country?
Well, really -- it is now know that they bought targeted ads, organized rallies, and employed bots to spread false information. It is known that Russian agents have used a wide variety of techniques on Facebook, Twitter, Google, Instagram, and even Pokémon Go to sow discord during the 2016 election. Now both the Senate and House Intelligence Committees investigating Russia’s role in the campaign have called for cooperation from various tech giants and asked them to publicly testify on Nov 1.
So, if at the time you knew they were doing something but couldn't quite lay your finger on what, is it really "fake news?"'
Now, maybe that was put up by some 4 Chan troll -- but you see, I've never seen it mentioned until this moment. And for the record, I'm a huge absorber of news from all sources -- and not a single one of the "main stream" sources that I read a great deal of has ever mentioned it. And why does anybody care what some anonymous troll writes, anyway? Are you trying to say now that 4 Chan is "main stream?"
Same response as above...
Okay, now -- let's deal with the FBI. Are you trying to suggest that they FBI should definitely NEVER INVESTIGATE ANONYMOUSLY SOURCED INFORMATION? If that's how you'd run the country, I wouldn't give your nation's safety a huge amount of confidence.
In fact, a huge number of potentially devastating crimes have been prevented by doing exactly that.
But maybe you just don't think it should happen around the very human "Gods" that you idolize. Sorry, but they're as human -- and prone to failure -- as the rest of us are.
Sorry, @metis answered this one, and did so correctly. And may I just point out that Trump's THIRD attempt at this has just been voided by a another judge (in Hawaii). And before you trash my mention of it -- that is exactly what judges are supposed to do, interpret the law in the context of the Constitution and juridical precedent.
I guess I just don't know what you consider to be MSM, but I'm a big consumer of news, and I don't see what you seem to be seeing. I admit that CNN, having too much time to fill, can be irritatingly trivial a lot of the time -- for which reason I watch it very, very little. Maybe you should try that.
The headline was Trump banning Muslims because he is racist. Here is Salon pushing that lie. https://www.salon.com/2017/01/30/tr...idents-agenda-is-fueled-by-white-nationalism/
Never said they was.
Buying ads is legal. Along with paying YouTubers to push Russian propoganda. Doesn't make it ok though.
It is when the MSM pushes the story as factual, when in truth it is conjecture.
Here is a shot 5.5 minute video explaining.
If I can find proof of it online with a 10 second research. The fbi can do so much better so quicker. Which is why this story is a nothingburger.
As an aging techie (long before there were whole computers on chips -- actually from when it took 7 tons of metal and electronic tubes) I can tell you that this idea that you can find "proof" doing a GOOGLE search is the next big fallacy. Right next to "WIKI(anything)" has all the answers.
Were you not complaining that the MSM didn't explain the Obama connection? That's been your primary mantra: Obama wrote the travel ban and the media didn't tell anyone! You then have confirmed that the important "bones" that Obama wrote were the 7 nations. So, since MSM was telling people about the Obama connection via the 7 nations, then your criticism seems unfounded.
Salon is hardly mainstream media. It is a known leftist source.
As for the discussion as to whether this ban was spurred by racism-- or, more commonly, whether it was a "Muslim ban"-- that is a reasonable discussion to have, considering Trump's own past comments, what he campaigned on, Giuliani's remarks, and the various courts who found such issues with it. do you think we shouldn't have discussed such a context to the ban? Do you think the news media shouldn't have reported on the reasons the courts were blocking it?
Another misrepresentation. I shall repeat once again.
The story was Trump wrote a rpolicy to ban Muslims from the country, because he is racist. This was the initial narrative, which is fake news.
The facts are. It was wrote by Obama, tweaked by Trump, and has nothing to do with racism. Not to mention "Muslim" Is not a race, but that's least of the problems with this story.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
^^ignore list^^ (reason: name-calling, which we even teach young children is morally wrong to do)
no, the narrative was discussing the likelihood that this was a "Muslim ban", not "trump is racist". A Muslim ban could indicate a xenophobic policy or religious discrimination. In other words, the policy could be xenophobic while not referring to trump personally.
And I note you still haven't answered why the possibility that this travel ban was motivated by xenophobia shouldn't be discussed, seeing as it was a salient point, given Trump's campaign, personal comments, and the court orders. Do you think we should pretend none of that existed?
This is really sad that you are still insisting that Obama wrote it. I mean, did Jimmy Carter write the Obama-era Iran nuclear deal? After all, he did write an Iran sanction EO, and according to you, simply writing anything that includes the same countries means that anything after is a mere "tweak".
And the fact that MSM did indeed report on the part similar to an Obama ere policy (the same 7 countries) totally guts your argument that MSM was somehow hiding the fact to make it look racist.
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I already stated my position. You keep misrepresenting it. Please stop.
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...I was pointing out that your position is based on a misunderstanding of what MSM was reporting. You think the story was "trump is racist". That wasn't the story. The story was "Is this a Muslim ban?" Im not changing your position. I'm saying that your position is false.
But seeing as you don't understand stark differences, like that of requiring a Visa vs a blanket ban, I didn't have much hope that you understand this nuance either.
Furthermore, I've asked multiple times as to why you think the possibility that the ban was inspired by xenophobia shouldn't be discussed. You have so far failed to explain.
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As stated I am not debating the details of the policy. Just the media's lies about its origins and the racist intent behind it.
The media didn't lie abut its origins. They didn't report that "Obama wrote the travel ban" because that is absurd: that would be a lie. They did report that the same 7 countries could be found in a different Obama-era program. That's literally the only connection there was, and it wasn't hidden, but thoroughly reported upon.
At this point, you have lost all credibility.
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