Bergoglio's crucifix

[Estro Felino]

From what I have gathered any evidence of this is from anti-VatII Catholics.

But I have never heard any Pope saying clearly "there are neither Rosicrucians nor Freemasons within the Vatican".
Which would reassure me, if he did.
But he will not, because he does know there are.

 

[pearl]

But he will not, because he does know there are.

Can you give me a source that is not anti- post Vatican II church?

 

[Estro Felino]

Can you give me a source that is not anti- post Vatican II church?

In English? I guess I cannot.
I do know several Italian priests who are staunchly faithful to Vatican II and yet have evidence there is esoteric, Freemasonic and probably occultist stuff within the Vatican walls.
I had already told you about Father Gabriele Amorth who has said this countless times and nobody can deny he has never countered Vatican II.
If you are interested, I can post some subtitled video. But I am 100% sure that I can find something in English too.

 

[pearl]

I had already told you about Father Gabriele Amorth who has said this countless times and nobody can deny he has never countered Vatican II.

This deeper and wider crisis, Viganò believes, involves, theologically, an illegitimate rejection (that is, not a legitimate development) of traditional Catholic doctrine. The aim: to construct a more modern ‘new church,’ marked by a faith and practice in many areas of Catholic moral and sacramental life different from the Church of the past.
More Bombshells from Viganò: Masonic Infiltration, Vatican II, and the Jesuits - Catholic Family News

My point all along is to be aware of where your info is from. It takes some discerning.

Here again;
The Instruction called for the dissemination of liberal ideas and axioms throughout society and within the institutions of the Catholic Church so that laity, seminarians, clerics and prelates would, over the years, gradually be imbued with progressive principles.”[1]

 

[Estro Felino]

This deeper and wider crisis, Viganò believes, involves, theologically, an illegitimate rejection (that is, not a legitimate development) of traditional Catholic doctrine. The aim: to construct a more modern ‘new church,’ marked by a faith and practice in many areas of Catholic moral and sacramental life different from the Church of the past.
More Bombshells from Viganò: Masonic Infiltration, Vatican II, and the Jesuits - Catholic Family News

My point all along is to be aware of where your info is from. It takes some discerning.

Here again;
The Instruction called for the dissemination of liberal ideas and axioms throughout society and within the institutions of the Catholic Church so that laity, seminarians, clerics and prelates would, over the years, gradually be imbued with progressive principles.”[1]

I perfectly know Monsignor Vigano's stance.
But I would like to know your stance.
You have never told me what you think of Freemasons.
How would your faith react, if you found out (beyond any doubt) that the Vatican is a Freemasonic lair.

 

[pearl]

You have never told me what you think of Freemasons.

Freemasonry is an entirely different religion and as such are falsely accused of infiltrating the Council.
As were Protestants. Following the Council came the accusation they took part in the Council. They were invited guests and took no part as participants.

I perfectly know Monsignor Vigano's stance.

Or do you? If you do, then you must agree that his stance begins with his negativity towards Vatican II.

Archbishop Vigano’s challenge on Vatican II | Catholic Culture

Library : Interview with Phil Lawler | Catholic Culture

Again, one must pay close attention to the source, it always comes down to the non- acceptance of the authority of the 2nd Vatican Council.

More Bombshells from Viganò: Masonic Infiltration, Vatican II, and the Jesuits - Catholic Family News

 

[Estro Felino]

Freemasonry is an entirely different religion and as such are falsely accused of infiltrating the Council.
As were Protestants. Following the Council came the accusation they took part in the Council. They were invited guests and took no part as participants.

Are you saying that Freemasons were invited as guests within the Vatican walls?
This is extremely grave, this is extremely profane.
Do you have a link?

 

[Dogknox20]

The Vatican is light years away from the state I live in. It is a world that can be dangerously hostile to the secular republic that is located on the other side of the Tiber River.
And yes, it is Freemasonic.
I am 100% sure that Pope Luciani was murdered. And those Cardinals elected Wojtila just to try to expiate. But Wojtila was exactly like Luciani...in fact he chose the same papal name.
They tried to get rid of him too.

Estro Felino I think you have fallen for "Anti-Catholic" preaching!

 

[Estro Felino]

Estro Felino I think you have fallen for "Anti-Catholic" preaching!

Absolutely not. I defend Catholics all over the world. I am just worried about the Vatican being hostage to Freemasons.

 

[pearl]

Are you saying that Freemasons were invited as guests within the Vatican walls?

No. That Protestants were invited guests, as they are Christians, and this was an ecumenical council.
They were invited as observers only, no participation. Are you assuming that all Protestants are Freemasons?

 

[GardenLady]

But Wojtila was exactly like Luciani.

JPII was far more conservative than JP1.

 

[GardenLady]

Father Gabriele Amorth

Ah yes, the Vatican exorcist who thought yoga and Harry Potter are satanic. Great source.

 

[pearl]

Are you saying that Freemasons were invited as guests within the Vatican walls?
This is extremely grave, this is extremely profane.
Do you have a link?

Vatican II: A Protestant perspective – Paulist Fathers
Perspectives from Protestant Observers at Vatican II (tomryancsp.org)

 

[Estro Felino]

No. That Protestants were invited guests, as they are Christians, and this was an ecumenical council.
They were invited as observers only, no participation. Are you assuming that all Protestants are Freemasons?

Of course not.
I thought you meant the lodges.

 

[Dogknox20]

Absolutely not. I defend Catholics all over the world. I am just worried about the Vatican being hostage to Freemasons.

Estro Felino it is not going to happen! The Holy Catholic Church is the body of God! Throughout the centuries the Church has been attacked; all attacks fail.. The Church is built on ROCK not on sand!
God is not a fool!

Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

 

[Estro Felino]

Estro Felino it is not going to happen! The Holy Catholic Church is the body of God! Throughout the centuries the Church has been attacked; all attacks fail.. The Church is built on ROCK not on sand!
God is not a fool!

Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Of course, the Church is eternal. Those who serve her will be judged by God in the afterlife.
So I think that all these Cardinals who are rumored to be Masons...will be judged too.

 

[Dogknox20]

Of course, the Church is eternal. Those who serve her will be judged by God in the afterlife.
So I think that all these Cardinals who are rumored to be Masons...will be judged too.

One thing about rumors, they are not proven thus they are rumors!
Cardinals are not stupid they know the evil of the Free Mason... FACT: All good Protestants love anything that slings mud at the Catholic Church!

Think: If the Catholic Church is TRULY the body of Jesus then there is NO NEED for their many thousands of Protesting Churches!
Estro Felino The ONLY reason they (Protestant churches) exist is they have convinced their followers; Jesus failed to build on ROCK but on sand, they the "Man in Protest" then MUST Come to the rescue of God and "Re-Form" (Form anew) the body of Jesus, a body that Jesus could not hold on to! AS IF....

Estro Felino as if Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK Jesus' holy body from Jesus!???

The Free Mason in a 50 steps program are on a quest to become self made gods! They are Protestants in league with the Anti-Christ doing the work of the Anti-Christ!

 

[Estro Felino]

One thing about rumors, they are not proven thus they are rumors!
Cardinals are not stupid they know the evil of the Free Mason... FACT: All good Protestants love anything that slings mud at the Catholic Church!

Think: If the Catholic Church is TRULY the body of Jesus then there is NO NEED for their many thousands of Protesting Churches!
Estro Felino The ONLY reason they (Protestant churches) exist is they have convinced their followers; Jesus failed to build on ROCK but on sand, they the "Man in Protest" then MUST Come to the rescue of God and "Re-Form" (Form anew) the body of Jesus, a body that Jesus could not hold on to! AS IF....

Estro Felino as if Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK Jesus' holy body from Jesus!???

The Free Mason in a 50 steps program are on a quest to become self made gods! They are Protestants in league with the Anti-Christ doing the work of the Anti-Christ!

I want the Pope to say "there are no lodges within the Vatican walls" and I will feel reassured.
He never will.

 

[Dogknox20]

I want the Pope to say "there are no lodges within the Vatican walls" and I will feel reassured.
He never will.

Estro Felino I hope all is well....

And..... Reassurance will change what?! Will you reject the Body of Christ until you are Reassured?! You CAN be reassured about this: The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established 2000 years ago will not fail! Jesus did not build on sand; he is not a fool!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Jesus built on Rock his building will always stand!

 

[paarsurrey]

Someone sent me this picture of Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio wearing this interesting crucifix.
I had never seen such crucifix in my entire life.

View attachment 65378

I zoomed the image, and then searched for it ...and apparently it deals with this crucifix:

Do you guys know what it stands for?
I guess I have never seen a crucifix portraying a live Jesus.
I guess it portrays Jesus as shepherd.

Why even wear a Crucifix when:

1. Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah did not die on the Cross
2. the earlier " Christians" used fish as a symbol of their Religion, please?

Right?

Regards