Bernie Sanders arrested!

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hmmmm, OK: do you consider his arrest for activism in 1963 a point in his favor or a smudge on his record.

I think it's a big point to his credit.

As someone who was active with CORE and arrested in the mid-60s I'm a bit biased.

 

[Buttercup]

This is always an interesting problem, ie, that one plays the game according to the rules, but one thinks the rules should be different.
Is it hypocrisy?
I don't know, in his case.
But It could also be the opposite if one wants to change the rules by which one plays, all for the betterment of society.

He wants to tax the heck out of Ford Motor Co. for shipping many job overseas yet he hasn't mentioned that he'll start sourcing his clothing here.

I know places in Los Angeles where he can employ people to manufacture his clothing line. I doubt he'd take my recommendations.

 

[Revoltingest]

He wants to tax the heck out of Ford Motor Co. for shipping many job overseas yet he hasn't mentioned that he'll start sourcing his clothing here.
I know places in Los Angeles where he can employ people to manufacture his clothing line. I doubt he'd take my recommendations.

If one plans to change the rules, one doesn't change one's strategy before the new rules start.

Perhaps to be competitive, he needs to outsource.
In a campaign, it makes sense to mention Ford because it's a significant presence.
I'd expect that he'd be subject to his own newly imposed incentives, which is to
simply change one level playing field (between companies) into another.

 

[Buttercup]

Perhaps to be competitive, he needs to outsource.
In a campaign, it makes sense to mention Ford because it's a significant presence.
I'd expect that he'd be subject to his own newly imposed incentives, which is to
simply change one level playing field (between companies) into another.

If you're going to point fingers at the sins of others, you'd better well be clean yourself.
If he wanted to gain one millimeter of respect from me, he'd announce he's opening a clothing warehouse in the US to create his clothing line. Then, he can go after others.

 

[Underhill]

If one plans to change the rules, one doesn't change one's strategy before the new rules start.

Perhaps to be competitive, he needs to outsource.
In a campaign, it makes sense to mention Ford because it's a significant presence.
I'd expect that he'd be subject to his own newly imposed incentives, which is to
simply change one level playing field (between companies) into another.

I would hope so. But knowing how some of our trade deals are written, anything is possible.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you're going to point fingers at the sins of others, you'd better well be clean yourself.
If he wanted to gain one millimeter of respect from me, he'd announce he's opening a clothing warehouse in the US to create his clothing line. Then, he can go after others.

I don't see it the same way, ie, it's not about "sin", but about altering behavior.

Suppose I go into politics.
(I'll wait til you're don't either laughing or screaming in horror.)

I currently do all sorts of creative & legal things to minimize my tax bill,
spending piles of money to save money, but there is net benefit.
I'm far from alone, so this affects the whole economy. So it's highly
inefficient for us to spin our wheels doing such unproductive things.
I shouldn't do it.
But the nature of this "should not" is that our tax environment shouldn't
cause this to be in my self interest. But I won't change my response to
existing tax laws...it would be foolish, & financially devastating. So I'd like
to change the law so that everyone's behavior would change for the better.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would hope so. But knowing how some of our trade deals are written, anything is possible.

This addresses the problems of corruption & ineptitude.
Since Trump is an unknown political entity, he's not so predictable in these areas.
But I see Hillary as a definite problem, given her lengthy crony capitalist ties.

 

[Quetzal]

Hmmmm, OK: do you consider his arrest for activism in 1963 a point in his favor or a smudge on his record.

I see this as a plus in his playbook. It was during a social justice rally of some sort, right? In which case, that is in line with his political platform.

 

[Buttercup]

I don't see it the same way, ie, it's not about "sin", but about altering behavior.

It was a play on words, you know what I meant. Please don't play a game of semantics.

Suppose I go into politics.
(I'll wait til you're don't either laughing or screaming in horror.)

I currently do all sorts of creative & legal things to minimize my tax bill,
spending piles of money to save money, but there is net benefit.
I'm far from alone, so this affects the whole economy. So it's highly
inefficient for us to spin our wheels doing such unproductive things.
I shouldn't do it.
But the nature of this "should not" is that our tax environment shouldn't
cause this to be in my self interest. But I won't change my response to
existing tax laws...it would be foolish, & financially devastating. So I'd like
to change the law so that everyone's behavior would change for the better.

I'm a business woman myself and my accountant certainly takes advantage of any tax credit possible to lower my bill. My point isn't about taxes.

If my campaign slogan was "Make America Great Again", and I complained about jobs being sent overseas, I don't see how I could justify my platform claim when all my manufacturing was done elsewhere. It's really very simple. Sorry we don't agree.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Trump certainly is a hypocrite regarding his stance on keeping jobs in America. His entire clothing line is manufactured in China or Mexico. I'm surprised he isn't called out more on this issue.

Sadly, the only person I've seen call him on this was David Letterman.

 

[Revoltingest]

It was a play on words, you know what I meant. Please don't play a game of semantics.

I responded to what I thought you meant.
Hey, this is a risk you "neurotypicals" take when using words metaphorically without a trigger warning.
To me, "sin" means that something is morally wrong.
But what I see here is "wrong" in the sense that things could be more efficient.

I'm a business woman myself and my accountant certainly takes advantage of any tax credit possible to lower my bill. My point isn't about taxes.

No, it isn't about taxes per se.
But it's a larger issue which includes many things, eg, outsourcing, taxation, regulation.
I introduced taxation because it makes the issue whether or not there's hypocrisy personal.

If my campaign slogan was "Make America Great Again", and I complained about jobs being sent overseas, I don't see how I could justify my platform claim when all my manufacturing was done elsewhere. It's really very simple. Sorry we don't agree.

I think it's not reasonable to expect someone in business to play by proposed rules instead of current rules.
But let's apply this standard to politics.....
Hillary takes massive amounts of money from Wall St, which conflicts with her campaign to get big money out of politics.
Is this hypocrisy, or simply playing by the rules in order to get the power to change the rules?

 

[Underhill]

This addresses the problems of corruption & ineptitude.
Since Trump is an unknown political entity, he's not so predictable in these areas.
But I see Hillary as a definite problem, given her lengthy crony capitalist ties.

So the choice could come down to a crony capitalist and a billionaire megalomaniacal bigot. What a beautiful world we live in.

 

[Revoltingest]

It was a play on words, you know what I meant. Please don't play a game of semantics.

Hey, this is a risk you neurotypicals take when using words metaphorically without a trigger warning.
To me, "sin" means that something is morally wrong.
But what I see here is "wrong" in the sense that things could be more efficient.

I'm a business woman myself and my accountant certainly takes advantage of any tax credit possible to lower my bill. My point isn't about taxes.

No, it isn't about taxes per se.
But it's a larger issue which includes many things, eg, outsourcing, taxation, regulation.
I introduced taxation because it makes the issue whether or not there's hypocrisy personal.

If my campaign slogan was "Make America Great Again", and I complained about jobs being sent overseas, I don't see how I could justify my platform claim when all my manufacturing was done elsewhere. It's really very simple. Sorry we don't agree.

I think it's not reasonable to expect someone in business to play by proposed rules instead of current rules.
But let's apply this standard to politics.....
Hillary takes massive amounts of money from Wall St, which conflicts with her campaign to get big money out of politics.
Is this hypocrisy, or simply playing by the rules in order to get the power to change the rules?

 

[Buttercup]

I think it's not reasonable to expect someone in business to play by proposed rules instead of current rules.

What do you think the odds are of Trump bringing all his clothing manufacturing back to the US if he became president? My bet is slim to none.

But let's apply this standard to politics.....Hillary takes massive amounts of money from Wall St, which conflicts with her campaign to get big money out of politics.
Is this hypocrisy, or simply playing by the rules in order to get the power to change the rules?

Hypocrisy, and this campaign money issue is one of the reasons I loathe her.

 

[Revoltingest]

So the choice could come down to a crony capitalist and a billionaire megalomaniac bigot. What a beautiful world we live in.

If anything, you're too generous to Hillary, who is also a bigot.
But yes, it's a lousy choice....at least for those wedded to the Big Two.

 

[YmirGF]

It was a play on words, you know what I meant. Please don't play a game of semantics.



I'm a business woman myself and my accountant certainly takes advantage of any tax credit possible to lower my bill. My point isn't about taxes.

If my campaign slogan was "Make America Great Again", and I complained about jobs being sent overseas, I don't see how I could justify my platform claim when all my manufacturing was done elsewhere. It's really very simple. Sorry we don't agree.

If only people put the Hildebeast under such scrutiny. Or, for that matter, Mr. Obama, way back when.

Personally, I don't see this as a big deal. It's not like a Trump line of clothing is selling millions of units. He could also end the thing in pretty short order. The danger of targeting this aspect of his massive portfolio is that he could say that it was due to others who had taken their business offshore years before made it impossible for him to have his line made in America.

Do note, like @Revoltingest I do not consider myself to be a Trump supporter. It's just when you consider the horrid alternatives.... on both sides of the aisle... I do feel great pity for America this time around. Well, on a happy note, at least Jeb finally took the hint and pulled out of the race.

My bet is the Bernie will be annihilated in two weeks by the Clinton machine. Then, all hope is lost... and Trump will win.

 

[Revoltingest]

What do you think the odds are of Trump bringing all his clothing manufacturing back to the US if he became president? My bet is slim to none.

I can't give odds.
It would depend upon what legislation Congress enacts.
But if the laws continue to encourage outsourcing, I'd expect him to continue.

Hypocrisy, and this campaign money issue is one of the reasons I loathe her.

Her hypocrisy is way down on my list.
So many other things to disagree about.

 

[Underhill]

If anything, you're too generous to Hillary, who is also a bigot.
But yes, it's a lousy choice....at least for those wedded to the Big Two.

Roughly 90% of the country...

This is why I support Bernie. Although I worry, in the end, if it matters. Bernie would probably mean even more republicans in the house and senate, meaning even more stagnation.

 

[Buttercup]

.
Her hypocrisy is way down on my list.
So many other things to disagree about.

I'm curious why you asked about hypocrisy in particular regarding Hillary if it's not a front runner on your gripe list?
I'm sure my list is as long as yours concerning other Hillary grievous offenses .

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm curious why you asked about hypocrisy in particular regarding Hillary if it's not a front runner on your gripe list?

It's about comparing the 2 of them, not weighting the most significant issues.

I'm sure my list is as long as yours concerning other Hillary grievous offences .

Claiming yours is longer than mine, eh?
What a guy thing to do!