Bernie Sanders

[Heyo]

I mostly approuch all subjects from a common sense standpoint. Climate change is no different to me.

That aside, ive done my research. Reading, listening to debates and lectures, bla bla.

But, you tell me what made you believe man is causing global warming and we can start there.

Simple. We know that CO2 forces warming. CO2 levels have risen. The most likely source of the extra carbon is from fossil fuel. Humans burn fossil fuel.
Do you need anything explained from the above?

 

[Jollybear]

Simple. We know that CO2 forces warming. CO2 levels have risen. The most likely source of the extra carbon is from fossil fuel. Humans burn fossil fuel.
Do you need anything explained from the above?

Incredable.

*Deleted by moderator*

Yes, CO2 contributes to warming. But CO2 makes up such a tiny percent of the atmosphere and the earth had way more CO2 in its past then it does now and it did fine.

And some CO2 escapes the atmosphere. And some gets absorbed by plants.

No big deal. And co2 is not the only contributer to what causes the planet to get warm.

 

[Heyo]

*Deleted by moderator*

Yes, CO2 contributes to warming. But CO2 makes up such a rund eine percent of the atmosphere and the earth had way more CO2 in its past then it does now and it did fine.

And some CO2 escapes the atmosphere. And some gets absorbed by plants.

No big deal. And co2 is not the only contributer to what causes the planet to get warm.

So your problem is with the physics of the greenhouse effect. You objections are typical for an uneducated AGW denier and I'm sure there is a comprehensive video on YouTube that answers all your questions. Unfortunately I'm afk and it's a pain to work on this old smartphone. But you'll get your lesson as soon as I find it (or maybe someone else is faster as your problem is now specified).

 

[Subduction Zone]

You already told me the green house effect in a past discussion.

Then i cross examined you with a stream of questions and all of those wernt addressed.

Do you want to do it all over again?

Sure.....

Ok....

So....

Tell me, what is the greenhouse effect?

Did we? It is clear that you do not understand it. If you did you would not have ducked.

You do know that the Green House Effect is what keeps our planet as warm as it is, don't you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

*Deleted by Moderator*

Yes, CO2 contributes to warming. But CO2 makes up such a tiny percent of the atmosphere and the earth had way more CO2 in its past then it does now and it did fine.

And some CO2 escapes the atmosphere. And some gets absorbed by plants.

No big deal. And co2 is not the only contributer to what causes the planet to get warm.

Oh my, you really do not know what you are talking about. But let's go over the basics first.

 

[Shad]

Bernie Sanders with best answer of the dem debate. The reason we’re not doing anything about climate change is not because we don’t have the political will, it’s because the fossil fuel companies buy off our politicians. They keep profits & pass off the costs to us.

Ergo they do not have the political will. If they did they wouldn't be bought off nor would people vote for those politicians.

 

[Heyo]

*Deleted by moderator*

Thank you, whover did this. Much better than deleting the complete post.

 

[Heyo]

Yes, CO2 contributes to warming. [...] the earth had way more CO2 in its past then it does now and it did fine.

That misses the point. It's not about the earth, it's about humans. Humans are much more sensible to change. They like to live in non flooded areas and they need irigatet land to grow food. If you don't own real estate it's easier to move but imagine you'd have to cross a border and risk to have your kids taken away and end up in a concentratipn camp.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

For something as big as climate change, to rehall the entire economy based on it, we need something more solid then "LIKELY".

No, we don't. "Likely" is solid enough considering the impact of climate change. Consider an analogy: Your doctor tells you you that unless your leg is amputated, you are likely to die. (Granted the stakes are higher with climate change since it will likely effect generations.)

Ok, one more....

"ATMOSPHERIC CARBON DIOXIDE CONCENTRATIONS are higher today than at any time in at least the past 650,000 years. They are about 35% higher than before the industrial revolution, and this increase is caused by human activities, primarily the burning of fossil fuels."

And

"The concentrations of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases in atmospheric samples have been measured continuously since the late 1950s. Since then, carbon dioxide concentrations have increased steadily from about 315 parts per million (ppm, or molecules of carbon dioxide per million molecules of dry air) in the late 1950s to about 385 ppm now, with small spatial variations away from major sources of emissions. For the more distant past, we can measure atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases in bubbles of ancient air preserved in ice (e.g., in Greenland and Antarctica). Ice core records currently go back 650,000 years; over this period we know that carbon dioxide concentrations have never been higher than they are now. Before the industrial revolution, they were about 280 ppm, and they have varied naturally between about 180 ppm during ice ages and 300 ppm during warm periods (Fig. 1). Concentrations of methane and nitrous oxide have likewise increased since the industrial revolution (Fig. 2) and, for methane, are higher now than they have been in the 650,000 years before the industrial revolution."

Now ill use wiki as my rebuttal to this part. Mind you, yes, im well aware wiki believes in human caused global warming. However, because they do believe also in accuracy, i believe in the quote below, they have shot there belief in the foot.

From wiki

"temperature records for the last 420 million years indicate that atmospheric CO
2 concentrations
Ok.....so.....in otherwords, concentrations of co2 wer WAY higher before our industrialation came along. And obviously the planet did just fine.

The ecosystems of the Triassic and Devonian didn't do so fine...

Keep in mind that our current ecosystem has adapted to a particular environment, and while climate change naturally occurs, human activity is creating a system of rapid change that will maximize the impact of it, disallowing a slower adaption to new environments. Add to this the toxicity of pollution and the destruction of habitats through deforestation and urban sprawl and we are talking about extinction level events (already occurring) that we could have prevented and may be able to smooth a bit if we are willing to work hard at it.

Also, id like to add one more thing. This is called the Milankovitch cycles. Or you could call it the orbital cycles.

Here is a video of it i seen awhile ago. Its worth looking at. Remember theres many factors that cause warming/cooling.

To summerize how it works, the planet does not just have 4 season cycles, it also has other cycles, which happen over longer periods of time. Thus the warming/cooling.

Interestingly, Nasa has an article that matches mars ice caps doing what ours is doing. That article is here if i remember. I think this is the one i read last time. But if not, its close enough.

NASA Radar Finds Ice Age Record in Mars' Polar Cap

Ok! Your thoughts now.

Milankovitch Cycles — OSS Foundation

It is unlikely that these cycles have anything to do with the departure we are currently seeing.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That misses the point. It's not about the earth, it's about humans. Humans are much more sensible to change. They like to live in non flooded areas and they need irigatet land to grow food. If you don't own real estate it's easier to move but imagine you'd have to cross a border and risk to have your kids taken away and end up in a concentratipn camp.

Well, more about the current state of the ecosystems supporting life.

Humans are fairly adaptable, but if Jollybear is concerned about upheaval of economic systems, continuing climate disruption through human activity is certainly going to do just that!

And while yes, life continues through climate changes, the ecosystems certainly change, forcing major adaptations. One of the other problems with human interference with the current environment is that the other effects of human activity--deforestation, toxic pollution, loss of habitats through urban sprawl, etc. (all of which also affect climate)--needlessly speeds extinction and stunts the ability for new ecosystems to emerge and species to adapt.

 

[Jollybear]

*Deleted by moderator*

So your problem is with the physics of the greenhouse effect. You objections are typical for an uneducated AGW denier and I'm sure there is a comprehensive video on YouTube that answers all your questions. Unfortunately I'm afk and it's a pain to work on this old smartphone. But you'll get your lesson as soon as I find it (or maybe someone else is faster as your problem is now specified).

Look man.....dont come on here and tell me what my education level is, ok? You people are all the same. I dont know how many times on any subjects ive talked with folks on here have told me im not educated when i disagree with them.

Look, listen to me very carefully. YOU need to be more educated. Because YOUR answers you gave me are very simplified to a very complicated subject.

I gave you a post that you did not refute. All you did was call me uneducated. Its quite annoying to say the VERY LEAST.

You dont know what my education level is, what ive researched, how much i researched. You have NO CLUE. Do you understand that? Does anyone on here understand that to those who disagree with them? No.....they sure dont.

Look, calling someone uneducated is a sure fire way of shutting down all discussion and debate. If thats what you REALLY want to do, then just be honest and SAY thats what you want to do. Just say you dont want to discuss it too deep. Theres nothing wrong with a little honesty. But dont come on here and pretend to know my ****ing education or research level. Got it!!??

Good!

 

[Lyndon]

what is your education level in the sciences, we would like to know!!

 

[Heyo]

Well, more about the current state of the ecosystems supporting life.

Humans are fairly adaptable, but if Jollybear is concerned about upheaval of economic systems, continuing climate disruption through human activity is certainly going to do just that!

Yes, from an economic standpoint it boils down to a cost utility calculation. And the majority of experts thinks that limiting global warming is the cheaper alternative.

 

[Heyo]

Look man.....dont come on here and tell me what my education level is, ok? You people are all the same. I dont know how many times on any subjects ive talked with folks on here have told me im not educated when i disagree with them.

Look, listen to me very carefully. YOU need to be more educated. Because YOUR answers you gave me are very simplified to a very complicated subject.

I gave you a post that you did not refute. All you did was call me uneducated. Its quite annoying to say the VERY LEAST.

You dont know what my education level is, what ive researched, how much i researched. You have NO CLUE. Do you understand that? Does anyone on here understand that to those who disagree with them? No.....they sure dont.

Look, calling someone uneducated is a sure fire way of shutting down all discussion and debate. If thats what you REALLY want to do, then just be honest and SAY thats what you want to do. Just say you dont want to discuss it too deep. Theres nothing wrong with a little honesty. But dont come on here and pretend to know my ****ing education or research level. Got it!!??

Good!

I don't know your education level but judging from your objections, you know very little about climate science. I already debunked one point.
For me giving simple answers: Those were basic points to clarify your position. We didn't knew it before I got down to that level.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Look, calling someone uneducated is a sure fire way of shutting down all discussion and debate.

I would like to point out that I have not done this and would enjoy continuing the discussion.

 

[Jollybear]

Did we? It is clear that you do not understand it. If you did you would not have ducked.

Yes, we did. If you forgot that tells me you did not pay much care or attention.

You do know that the Green House Effect is what keeps our planet as warm as it is, don't you?

Yes, i know.

Oh my, you really do not know what you are talking about. But let's go over the basics first.

Well, go ahead. Tell me the basics. And be prepared because im gonna stream line you with questions to cross examine.

 

[Jollybear]

I would like to point out that I have not done this and would enjoy continuing the discussion.

True, you havent done that. I apreciate it too.

Yes, lets continue. Im still working on replies. I gotta do this slowely cause its on my phone, plus doing other things in life.

 

[Jollybear]

I don't know your education level but judging from your objections, you know very little about climate science.

"I don't know your education"

"but judging from your objections, you know very little"

So on one hand you dont know what i know and on the other you know what i know.

Let me correct you. You dont KNOW **** what i know.

Also heres whats going to reveal who knows more, debate and discussion has the wonders of revealing that over the time of the discussion, NOT anyones assertions about the others education or research level. Get that through your head.

I already debunked one point.
For me giving simple answers: Those were basic points to clarify your position. We didn't knew it before I got down to that level.

You didnt debunk anything.

 

[Jollybear]

No, we don't. "Likely" is solid enough considering the impact of climate change. Consider an analogy: Your doctor tells you you that unless your leg is amputated, you are likely to die. (Granted the stakes are higher with climate change since it will likely effect generations.)

Analogy wont work here since i trust the doctor (although that dont mean doctors arent wrong, because they can be).

I dont trust man made global warming (i.e. alarmism).

Plus, its reasonable that man can know more about how to save lives and address illnesses vs knowing all the ins and outs of climate, which would be way more complicated.

The ecosystems of the Triassic and Devonian didn't do so fine...

Well, apparently they did otherwise we wouldnt be here.

Keep in mind that our current ecosystem has adapted to a particular environment, and while climate change naturally occurs, human activity is creating a system of rapid change that will maximize the impact of it, disallowing a slower adaption to new environments. Add to this the toxicity of pollution and the destruction of habitats through deforestation and urban sprawl and we are talking about extinction level events (already occurring) that we could have prevented and may be able to smooth a bit if we are willing to work hard at it.

I dont see "rapid" change going on. Ive been on the planet now 40 years and the weather seams to me to be completely normal.

Milankovitch Cycles — OSS Foundation

It is unlikely that these cycles have anything to do with the departure we are currently seeing.

"Unlikely" is an assumption and thats not gonna work for me. The orbital (i Just gonna call it orbit cycles, just because i dont want to spell that guys name over and over) cycles happen and they do play a factor in climate.

Well, more about the current state of the ecosystems supporting life.

Humans are fairly adaptable, but if Jollybear is concerned about upheaval of economic systems, continuing climate disruption through human activity is certainly going to do just that!

Most if not all the animals are still here on earth. Everything is doing fine.

And while yes, life continues through climate changes, the ecosystems certainly change, forcing major adaptations. One of the other problems with human interference with the current environment is that the other effects of human activity--deforestation, toxic pollution, loss of habitats through urban sprawl, etc. (all of which also affect climate)--needlessly speeds extinction and stunts the ability for new ecosystems to emerge and species to adapt.

There is LOTS of trees around. Quite alot to take care of that pesky CO2.

Give me an example of some species or ecosystem you think died off due to global warming?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, we did. If you forgot that tells me you did not pay much care or attention.



Yes, i know.



Well, go ahead. Tell me the basics. And be prepared because im gonna stream line you with questions to cross examine.

No, you don't know. You have shown in other threads a very poor understanding of the physical sciences. I need just a little honesty on your part before we go on. If a person cannot be honest there is no helping them.