Beto wants to tax any church if...

[Sand Dancer]

Perhaps because the official position of the Catholic church is against same-sex marriage? How do you think most Catholics would react to a candidate who is advocating this policy?

Isn't birth control wrong in the church's eyes too? Doesn't mean the majority adhere to it. Only half of Catholics are conservative. Same with Protestants.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It's a common mistake to think that Catholics are a sort of monolithic bloc marching in step behind the Vatican.
Given that Beto is a huge long shot candidate and couldn't get this proposal through any legislature in the US, it's obviously somewhere between meaningless grandstanding and starting a conversation.

You might be surprised by how many Catholics welcome the conversation. Many Catholics vehemently disagree with the RCC policy of opposing marriage equality.(along with lots of other things)

Tom

Same with Protestantism. There is no "official" Catholic or Protestant view. Good thing...

 

[sealchan]

And some pleasure.

Meh. Marginal once you achieve something over the poverty level. Greater factors are self-knowledge and a meaningful role in society.

 

[Shiranui117]

I like his reasoning, though. From the article:

"Yes. There can be no reward, no benefit, no tax break, for anyone, any institution, any organization in America, that denies the full human rights, that denies the full civil rights, of everyone in America."

A religious wedding ceremony is not a civil right, nor is it a human right. You can get a same-sex wedding done at a courthouse, outside, in a park, on a boat, etc. Nobody has a right to a religious space or to a religious ceremony if usage of said space or ceremony would contradict the teachings of the hosting religious institution. I don't have to host you in my house, and a parish does not have to host your event in their church, or in their synagogue, mosque, etc.

You are reducing basic human equality to a religious or political opinion. I think that it is clear that a church ought to be of equal service to all and not make judgments if they want any "special treatment" of their own. Same sex people pay taxes too.

Churches and other religious organizations never have provided equal service to all, nor should they. Sure, with soup kitchens and food drives there's equal service, but nobody, and I mean nobody, has an intrinsic human right to participate in the rituals and ceremonies of a given religious tradition. Should a Native American tribe be forced to open their religious rites to white people? Should a synagogue be forced to perform a Jewish wedding ceremony for a non-Jewish couple? Should a Catholic or an Orthodox church be forced to provide same-sex weddings? The answer to all of these cases is a clear and resounding no. Anything to the contrary is a violation of the First Amendment.

Either all religious institutions are tax-exempt, or none of them are. We will not be punishing one set of religious beliefs and rewarding another just because their religious beliefs contradict the political sensibilities of the day.

It's a common mistake to think that Catholics are a sort of monolithic bloc marching in step behind the Vatican.
Given that Beto is a huge long shot candidate and couldn't get this proposal through any legislature in the US, it's obviously somewhere between meaningless grandstanding and starting a conversation.

You might be surprised by how many Catholics welcome the conversation. Many Catholics vehemently disagree with the RCC policy of opposing marriage equality.(along with lots of other things)

Tom

This is a point that we could definitely have a good discussion about, and I think to a large extent you're right. However, I do think it safe to say that there are Catholics who advocate for social justice (AKA lean more Democrat) yet who also respect the teachings of the Church. I don't think many of these Catholics (especially immigrant Catholics) would appreciate Beto punishing their Church for believing what she believes.

Same with Protestantism. There is no "official" Catholic or Protestant view. Good thing...

There is most certainly an official Catholic view. The only question is to what extent your lay Catholic actually adheres to their church's official teachings.

 

[sealchan]

Churches and other religious organizations never have provided equal service to all, nor should they. Sure, with soup kitchens and food drives there's equal service, but nobody, and I mean nobody, has an intrinsic human right to participate in the rituals and ceremonies of a given religious tradition. Should a Native American tribe be forced to open their religious rites to white people? Should a synagogue be forced to perform a Jewish wedding ceremony for a non-Jewish couple? Should a Catholic or an Orthodox church be forced to provide same-sex weddings? The answer to all of these cases is a clear and resounding no. Anything to the contrary is a violation of the First Amendment.

When an organization wants to be free of its duty to pay taxes on income earned to the government, it should be willing to follow the basic principles of human decency established by the laws of that government. It can always voluntarily withdraw its claim to tax exempt status if it wishes to promote a specific moral agenda at odds with that of the people as a whole.

 

[Shiranui117]

When an organization wants to be free of its duty to pay taxes on income earned to the government, it should be willing to follow the basic principles of human decency established by the laws of that government. It can always voluntarily withdraw its claim to tax exempt status if it wishes to promote a specific moral agenda at odds with that of the people as a whole.

A religious organization refusing to perform a religious ceremony for anybody is in no way a violation of anyone's "basic principles of decency established by the laws of that government". Nobody has a right to a given religious ceremony. I don't have a right to a bar mitzvah, or a navjote, or a confirmation, or to participation in a ghost dance. Why people think they have a right to participation in rituals belonging to religions that they don't follow is beyond me.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

A religious wedding ceremony is not a civil right, nor is it a human right. You can get a same-sex wedding done at a courthouse, outside, in a park, on a boat, etc. Nobody has a right to a religious space or to a religious ceremony if usage of said space or ceremony would contradict the teachings of the hosting religious institution. I don't have to host you in my house, and a parish does not have to host your event in their church, or in their synagogue, mosque, etc.

It's more than the religious ceremony. How long have we been without DOMA? I distinctly remember the lobbying that has gone into anti-lgbt policies and likely still does.

 

[Sand Dancer]

There is most certainly an official Catholic view. The only question is to what extent your lay Catholic actually adheres to their church's official teachings.

So whatever the Pope says? Ugh.

 

[Shiranui117]

So whatever the Pope says? Ugh.

Whatever is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the decrees of the Catholic councils.

 

[Shad]

I am to an extent. But I think it should be paid for. In other words, you are financially secure, have plenty of extravagance to play with, and have no need to fear financial ruin for your or your family, it is not by any means unreasonable to give back to the community whose resources you are likely using to make your wealth.

Wealth is not the same as income. A lot of wealth is already invested in something thus not a liquid asset. Your house for example

 

[Sand Dancer]

Whatever is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the decrees of the Catholic councils.

How convenient that men dictate everything. Ugh.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Wealth is not the same as income. A lot of wealth is already invested in something thus not a liquid asset. Your house for example

Right, but how does this change the situation?