Beyond science

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then why do you believe anything?
Unless you don't believe anything too. Then you're an atheist like me.

I don't believe any thing as true or false in the end. I have habits that seems to work, but could be an illusion. In the end to someone like me it is about coping, but that is a mental activity.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Awareness is easy. Its being aware of being aware that's hard to answer.

Yeah, but I have never been able to do that, hence I am only aware of how I cope in the end.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't believe any thing as true or false in the end. I have habits that seems to work, but could be an illusion. In the end to someone like me it is about coping, but that is a mental activity.

I don't think in true or false. I think in probabilities. Nothing is ever 100% true or false but somewhere in between.
Whatever has worked for you in the past plus the more time it has worked for you the more likely it will continue to work in the future.
Still there is always a chance that one day it won't and vice versa.

 

[Altfish]

except to all those who are suffering debilitating mental illnesses, physical disabilities and harmful exposure to others.

... and children who die of cancer, children born with disabilities, .... god witnesses all of these and ignores them; as she does with wars, famines, floods, etc.

 

[Kfox]

Well, that is a free floating claim, since you haven't actually explained how it works. You only claim it works. How does awareness work in practice?

Awareness works as a result of our senses and thoughts

What is reality? How does I am aware of reality actually work?

Before I give an answer, do you consider yourself a sentient being? If not, than I have no way of answering your question.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Awareness works as a result of our senses and thoughts

Before I give an answer, do you consider yourself a sentient being? If not, than I have no way of answering your question.

Well, yes. I have a mind. Now remember to include cause and effect and how a person can be mistaken and if something can be unknown.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Awareness works as a result of our senses and thoughts

Before I give an answer, do you consider yourself a sentient being? If not, than I have no way of answering your question.

What are thoughts?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What are thoughts?

Yeah, that is a part of it, but most leave out cause and effect and how it works if you are mistaken or don't know.
Of course this is not true or false. It just seem to work.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The universe is so much more than some Big Bang explanation.

What's your point? Did somebody say otherwise?

In my experience all threads about the limitations of science come from people who want their other ways of knowing respected. They hear the empiricists, who reject faith as a path to truth, and phrase what they really mean is insufficient respect for faith as excessive trust in science, or what they derisively call scientism or materialism. It's all code for the rejection of the empiricist's position that these other methods are unreliable. But rather than argue for them and their merits by listing several of the great contributions these other ways have knowing have gifted mankind (calling them "so much more" are just empty words without the specifics) they discuss the limitations of the same science that they exploit as much as those who respect it. They also live longer, more functional, easier, safer, more comfortable, and more interesting lives (see sheep shearing reference below, something I've never had the need to do)

we can't deny science is why there is global warming.

How about Christianity? According to its teachings, man has been given dominion over the earth to do as he pleases with it. The universe is just a staging area made of base matter fit for apocalyptic destruction, so don't you go worrying about a little sunlight.

• "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position and responsibilities)
• "My point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous." - Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla
• "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood. . . . I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect." - Rep John Shimkus, R-Ill.

What you were reading there was the marriage of Christianity to American government, and with it, to industry, which gives government its orders to the extent that it can thwart the authentic purpose of American government as outlined in the Preamble and exclusively serve its elites. None of those people care about either of us - not the church, not the conservative state, and not robber baron capitalism.

Yet you blame the scientists.

Humanity would never have been able to wipe out Hiroshima and Nagasaki at a stroke, fill the rivers with toxins and the oceans with plastic, and denude thousands of acres of rainforest, had it not been for the huge strides made in science and technology.

And another. Antiscientism is a destructive, self-serving consequence of religion and its efforts to defend itself from increasing irrelevance by attacking its accidental critic, science. I say accidental because science is indifferent to religion.

"You stare into your high definition plasma screen monitor, type into your cordless keyboard then hit enter, which causes your computer to convert all that visual data into a binary signal that's processed by millions of precise circuits.

"This is then converted to a frequency modulated signal to reach your wireless router where it is then converted to light waves and sent along a large fiber optics cable to be processed by a supercomputer on a mass server.

"This sends that bit you typed to a satellite orbiting the earth that was put there through the greatest feats of engineering and science, all so it could go back through a similar pathway to make it all the way here to my computer monitor 15,000 miles away from you just so you could say, "Science is all a bunch of manmade hogwash."- anon.

But obviously thanks to scientific progress, we’re now much more enlightened than our ignorant forebears, who never landed on the moon but only managed to put the oxen to the plough, the sheep to the shears, and the wool to the hand loom.

Yes, and I thank reason for that. I've never had to do any of those things. Nor cut firewood nor fetch water. We have machines to do that for us now. And cars. And air conditioners. Think of how much of your briefer, smaller life would have been spent on menial tasks had you been born in the past, planting and harvesting crops, grinding corn and pounding clothes on rocks. I'm grateful to be born into a time where I could make a living with my mind rather than my back.

As far as putting man on the moon, when America is as old as ancient Mesopotamia is now, it will be remembered for only two achievements, and that was one of them, its constitution being the other.

 

[Kfox]

Well, yes. I have a mind. Now remember to include cause and effect and how a person can be mistaken and if something can be unknown.

I didn’t ask if you had a mind, I asked if you were a sentient being. A sentient being not only has a mind, but the ability to respond to what his mind is telling him. Can you do this?

 

[Kfox]

What are thoughts?

Mental activities understood by sentient beings. Unless you are a sentient being, I can't explain it to ya.

 

[Jimmy]

What's your point? Did somebody say otherwise?

In my experience all threads about the limitations of science come from people who want their other ways of knowing respected. They hear the empiricists, who reject faith as a path to truth, and phrase what they really mean is insufficient respect for faith as excessive trust in science, or what they derisively call scientism or materialism. It's all code for the rejection of the empiricist's position that these other methods are unreliable. But rather than argue for them and their merits by listing several of the great contributions these other ways have knowing have gifted mankind (calling them "so much more" are just empty words without the specifics) they discuss the limitations of the same science that they exploit as much as those who respect it. They also live longer, more functional, easier, safer, more comfortable, and more interesting lives (see sheep shearing reference below, something I've never had the need to do)

How about Christianity? According to its teachings, man has been given dominion over the earth to do as he pleases with it. The universe is just a staging area made of base matter fit for apocalyptic destruction, so don't you go worrying about a little sunlight.

• "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position and responsibilities)
• "My point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous." - Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla
• "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood. . . . I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect." - Rep John Shimkus, R-Ill.

What you were reading there was the marriage of Christianity to American government, and with it, to industry, which gives government its orders to the extent that it can thwart the authentic purpose of American government as outlined in the Preamble and exclusively serve its elites. None of those people care about either of us - not the church, not the conservative state, and not robber baron capitalism.

Yet you blame the scientists.

And another. Antiscientism is a destructive, self-serving consequence of religion and its efforts to defend itself from increasing irrelevance by attacking its accidental critic, science. I say accidental because science is indifferent to religion.

"You stare into your high definition plasma screen monitor, type into your cordless keyboard then hit enter, which causes your computer to convert all that visual data into a binary signal that's processed by millions of precise circuits.

"This is then converted to a frequency modulated signal to reach your wireless router where it is then converted to light waves and sent along a large fiber optics cable to be processed by a supercomputer on a mass server.

"This sends that bit you typed to a satellite orbiting the earth that was put there through the greatest feats of engineering and science, all so it could go back through a similar pathway to make it all the way here to my computer monitor 15,000 miles away from you just so you could say, "Science is all a bunch of manmade hogwash."- anon.

Yes, and I thank reason for that. I've never had to do any of those things. Nor cut firewood nor fetch water. We have machines to do that for us now. And cars. And air conditioners. Think of how much of your briefer, smaller life would have been spent on menial tasks had you been born in the past, planting and harvesting crops, grinding corn and pounding clothes on rocks. I'm grateful to be born into a time where I could make a living with my mind rather than my back.

As far as putting man on the moon, when America is as old as ancient Mesopotamia is now, it will be remembered for only two achievements, and that was one of them, its constitution being the other.

More interesting lives? If you only knew. I’ll hold back and respect your opinion.

 

[We Never Know]

What's your point? Did somebody say otherwise?

In my experience all threads about the limitations of science come from people who want their other ways of knowing respected. They hear the empiricists, who reject faith as a path to truth, and phrase what they really mean is insufficient respect for faith as excessive trust in science, or what they derisively call scientism or materialism. It's all code for the rejection of the empiricist's position that these other methods are unreliable. But rather than argue for them and their merits by listing several of the great contributions these other ways have knowing have gifted mankind (calling them "so much more" are just empty words without the specifics) they discuss the limitations of the same science that they exploit as much as those who respect it. They also live longer, more functional, easier, safer, more comfortable, and more interesting lives (see sheep shearing reference below, something I've never had the need to do)

How about Christianity? According to its teachings, man has been given dominion over the earth to do as he pleases with it. The universe is just a staging area made of base matter fit for apocalyptic destruction, so don't you go worrying about a little sunlight.

• "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position and responsibilities)
• "My point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous." - Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla
• "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood. . . . I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect." - Rep John Shimkus, R-Ill.

What you were reading there was the marriage of Christianity to American government, and with it, to industry, which gives government its orders to the extent that it can thwart the authentic purpose of American government as outlined in the Preamble and exclusively serve its elites. None of those people care about either of us - not the church, not the conservative state, and not robber baron capitalism.

Yet you blame the scientists.

And another. Antiscientism is a destructive, self-serving consequence of religion and its efforts to defend itself from increasing irrelevance by attacking its accidental critic, science. I say accidental because science is indifferent to religion.

"You stare into your high definition plasma screen monitor, type into your cordless keyboard then hit enter, which causes your computer to convert all that visual data into a binary signal that's processed by millions of precise circuits.

"This is then converted to a frequency modulated signal to reach your wireless router where it is then converted to light waves and sent along a large fiber optics cable to be processed by a supercomputer on a mass server.

"This sends that bit you typed to a satellite orbiting the earth that was put there through the greatest feats of engineering and science, all so it could go back through a similar pathway to make it all the way here to my computer monitor 15,000 miles away from you just so you could say, "Science is all a bunch of manmade hogwash."- anon.

Yes, and I thank reason for that. I've never had to do any of those things. Nor cut firewood nor fetch water. We have machines to do that for us now. And cars. And air conditioners. Think of how much of your briefer, smaller life would have been spent on menial tasks had you been born in the past, planting and harvesting crops, grinding corn and pounding clothes on rocks. I'm grateful to be born into a time where I could make a living with my mind rather than my back.

As far as putting man on the moon, when America is as old as ancient Mesopotamia is now, it will be remembered for only two achievements, and that was one of them, its constitution being the other.

"How about Christianity? According to its teachings, man has been given dominion over the earth to do as he pleases with it. The universe is just a staging area made of base matter fit for apocalyptic destruction, so don't you go worrying about a little sunlight.

• "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position and responsibilities)
• "My point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous." - Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla
• "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood. . . . I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect." - Rep John Shimkus, R-Ill.

What you were reading there was the marriage of Christianity to American government, and with it, to industry, which gives government its orders to the extent that it can thwart the authentic purpose of American government as outlined in the Preamble and exclusively serve its elites. None of those people care about either of us - not the church, not the conservative state, and not robber baron capitalism.
Yet you blame the scientists"

Wow! You.just nailed it!
Global warming is the fault of christianity.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I didn’t ask if you had a mind, I asked if you were a sentient being. A sentient being not only has a mind, but the ability to respond to what his mind is telling him. Can you do this?

Yes.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Mental activities understood by sentient beings. Unless you are a sentient being, I can't explain it to ya.

What sort of mental activities? And what is understanding?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What sort of mental activities? And what is understanding?

LOL Don't go skeptic on him.

 

[Kfox]

Yes.

So to answer your question of how does awareness work in practice, when your mind gives you information, that is called awareness. When you react to such information, that is how awareness works.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So to answer your question of how does awareness work in practice, when your mind gives you information, that is called awareness. When you react to such information, that is how awareness works.

Okay, I see God clearly and I see you are going to Hell.

 

[Kfox]

Okay, I see God clearly and I see you are going to Hell.

In the Cayman Islands? We are going to the Cayman Islands next year, but we will not be going to the town named Hell; we generally limit our visits to the touristy areas. But I gotta admit; that was a pretty good guess on your part.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So to answer your question of how does awareness work in practice, when your mind gives you information, that is called awareness. When you react to such information, that is how awareness works.

I am moving this one to the other thread as they are related.