dear makropo ,
firstly may I explain that infact dharma has many subtlties in meaning , vrindavana das gives "religion" as a loose translation , I would like to give the definition as duty , throughout the gita krsna goes to great lengths to impress upon arjuna that dharma is duty , and it is this duty that dictates religion .
therefore by fullfilling our duty we uphold religion , we uphold rightiousness .
Dear forum members,
This is the passage in question *edit*.
"Lord Krishnas purpose in telling Arjuna this story was to teach Arjuna that sometimes we have to choose between a rock and a hard place. Lord Krishna told Arjuna that the hermit shared with the robber the sin of killing a life. The robber could not have found the merchant if the hermit had not told the truth. So when two noble principles conflict with each other, we have to know which one is the higher principle. Ahimsa has the highest priority, so the hermit should have lied in this situation to save a life. One may not tell a truth that harms a person in any way. It isnt easy to apply Dharma (or righteousness) to real life situations because what is Dharma and what is Adharma (or unrighteousness) can sometimes be very difficult to decide. In such a situation, expert advice should be sought."
looking at the passage above in the light of duty , it is everyones duty to uphold rightiousness , so the question being raised is that of when truth should be freely given and when it is permissable to refrain from telling the truth .
this is a question of wisdom ,
true , truth (
satyam)is one of the higest principles in hinduism but
ahimsa non harming is also one of the higest principles .
so on the occasion that by telling a truth one would bring about unnececary harm , then one should refrain from telling that truth .
in much the same way as we would not instruct a small child how to use matches untill we felt he was responcible enough to use them wisely . he may repeatedly ask where the matches are kept , he may ask how to create fire simply because he is facinated by it ! but untill he is wise enough to use fire for its correct purpose no one will tell him .
this is wisdom ! we may have knowledge , but we must now use wisdom when applying it !
but this knowledge is not exactly truth , truth the principle of
satyam is a higher principle which we must learn to act in accordance with .
It surprised us to see this justification of lying, even though the logic is clear. The surprise was due to the fact that none of us are familiar with any other primary religious texts (of any religion) which include a similar justification of lying. Such a thing may exist, but we are not aware of it.
there is a rule within buddhist practice which describes wisdom and its aplication in speach and action , ....
wisdom relating to speach is knowing what to say , when to say it , and when to remain silent !
wisdom relating to action is knowing when to act , knowing how to act , and when to refrain from action !
Since we are focussing mainly on religious texts as sources of cultural values, the question we have is this. Does this justification for lying in exceptional circumstances where a life is in danger lead some people in contemporary Hindu societies to use it to justify lying in circumstances in which the level of threatened danger, or harm, is low, or even of a nature unintended by the original scripture? That is, is this principle sometimes misapplied or abused? For example, can some people lie with a clear conscience while conducting business in order to protect his/her family, say, from financial loss?
with regard to business , to lie for unnecessary gain would be adharma ,
to refrain from telling the truth in some circumstances may be permissable if one needs to protect ones financial security , take for instance a simple merchant who conducts business simply to feed his family , imagine that he is aproached by a wealthy business man who asks the name of his supplier so that he may cut him out and go directly to the supplier simply to make more profit , the merchant may justifiably avoid to tell the truth about the identity of his supply , as this would jeopardise the security of his family ! but if another poor merchant came to him asking for help he should not lie but should help him as he realises that he to must support his own family , this is the aplication of wisdom .
of course in the case of business this principle will no doubt be abused , as the business man often wishes to amass more wealth than he actualy needs , it is the duty of the merchant to provide for his family but it is beyond his duty to amass more wealth than he needs as that causes deprevation for others . it is only a lack of faith in god and a lack of understanding of the
true order of life , that leads to a missplaced sence of importance placed on the self above others , that leads to the abuse of any principle such as the ammasing of wealth .
when the hindu or buddhist speaks of truth
(satyam) , it is ultimately the greater truth relating to "the
true order of life" that is of supreme importance , all daily activitys are to be conducted in a way which ultimately leads to an understanding of that greater truth , thus religions throughout the world give codes of conduct relating to our daily behavior so that we might live a life which will bring us closer to an understanding of god and the true order of life .
I presume the members of this forum would regard such a practice as unethical, but my question is whether this principle has become watered down over the centuries, so that some elements of society refer to it in order to reduce the seriousness of lying as an unethical and unacceptable act.
the problem is that over the centurys love of god and rightiousness have declined and iriligion and self interest have increased , we serve god (and his natural order) less , and place more emphasiss on serving the self , in this way lying and un ethical behaviors have become the norm as we do not trust in god to provide , nor are we happy to live a simple life sharing with others .
I hope this will be of help , this is a wonderfull topic to be discussing , I hope your teaching is both enjoyable and fruitfull ,
