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Bible a waste of space?

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
doppelgänger quoting Hesse said:
If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us”
I'd disagree with that one. I find the idea of child rape very disturbing, yet i myself have never felt paedophilic urges.

porkchop said:
hating yourself/self hatred is a myth, plain and simple, no one ever truly hated themselves, but thats for another thread.
I've met people who hate themselves, so i know this is crap.

FerventGodSeeker said:
Then if you believe that quote, you are a liar also...seems rather self-defeating.
I too found this belief=liar thing quite strange.

I believe in evolution, am i lying to myself, do i really believe in creation?

Are atheists who believe angelic visions are a product of the mind lying to themselves, do they really think angels exist?

Weird.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Anti-World said:
I am sick and I'm tired of waiting for someone else to fix the problems and I'm wondering why we do?

Who said you should wait for someone else to fix them?

Hm, and since this is Biblical Debates, there are some instructions on what individuals can do to fix them. Go out and do some mitzvot!

Tikun Olam

Then again. If God doesn't exist than the bible doesn't mean anything, neither do morals.

If you believe this is true, you might want to chat with some atheists about this. They seem to think that God is not required for morals to mean something.

We run around in circles trying to figure out this book while the poor starve and the murderers continue to murder.

Have you considered a career in law enforcement?
 
A

A. Leaf

Guest
Anti-World I would not believe that you are Anti-World, I would believe that your possibly, what I call, going to come up on one soon, which means that you are sick and tired, so sooner or later, you will do something, perahps an Art Form, perhaps something else, just Harmonise it in Love, In otherwords dont go about it in a Negative Way, be pure positive. Of course you might think, I am talking garbage, and do nothing, but it's you that hurts each day. Quote below for you.


"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be
brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God.
Your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There's nothing enlightened about shrinking
so that other people won't feel insecure around you.
We were born to make manifest the Glory of God that is within us.
It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.
And as we let our own light shine,
we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our own fear,
our presence automatically liberates others."
Originally From an Arabic song I would believe.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Anti-World said:
I have read a few books in my life time that could all be the foundation of faith and morals. I know that I could also write my own and it would have equal relevancy and wouldn't be nearly as cryptic.

You have already written your own bible by believing what you want to believe.

Anti-World said:
Does it really matter what was written thousands of years ago when we are talking about problems at the present?

There is nothing new under the sun. There are the same problems now as there was then.
 

Anti-World

Member
Me not Anti-World!? Bah. After what I've seen there's very little enjoyment I want to bring the world. There is a precious handful of people who I find are actually worth-while human beings and they give me a reason to live (Even you who I havn't met yet). The rest of you are living in the dark and seem to me to be a bacteria slowly eating away at this planet. Yes, I am hurt. It is my one dream in life that I will be able to look at a stranger in the street and know that I can trust them and be unafraid.

Morals without a code... People annoy me. Atheist can be such hippocrits. They say, "Don't blindly follow!" yet when they don't accept a god or any moral code but what they can create to suit them they are blindly following everyone else... Jees. Either I follow a God "who doesn't exist" or I follow no one and be moral for no reason whatsoever. You atheist are the worst blind followers I've ever seen and then you use "logic" to back your pathetic excuses for moral behavior. I've never been one to do something just because someone said so or because that's the way I was raised or because "that's what's right"(Someone or something MUST define what's right or wrong)...

And to further elaborate my signature: Saying that a person beleives in something is to say they've accepted something to be true even though there is not enough evidence to say that. Therefore, any time someone says, "I beleive" they are saying "This is true (Even though there isn't any logical way I can say that)"; lying. Of course we could use different definitions of the word Beleive to make that statement false but that's the way I usually hear it used.

Anyway. Most of that was off subject (kind of). The idea here is do we need a bible to be moral? Atheists would say no. Personally I think we all need something to be moral. Atheists tend to think they can pull morals out of their hats and follow them for no reason whereas I need something to give me a reason to be moral. Not just in public but in private, even when I can get away with it. I need something (Whether it be the Bible or something else) to teach me what moral is. To me a person can either consciously or subconsciously follow something or someone but we will follow, that's the way humans are. But that's what I beleive... xD It's you're call. I want to see what you all think about it.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Anti-World said:
Personally I think we all need something to be moral. Atheists tend to think they can pull morals out of their hats and follow them for no reason whereas I need something to give me a reason to be moral. Not just in public but in private, even when I can get away with it. I need something (Whether it be the Bible or something else) to teach me what moral is. To me a person can either consciously or subconsciously follow something or someone but we will follow, that's the way humans are. But that's what I beleive... xD It's you're call. I want to see what you all think about it.

Do you want to be "moral"?

Also, what difference does it make that atheists don't give reasons for moral behavior if all you're looking for is a list of things you are supposed to consider "moral"?

Finally, why can't you decide for yourself what is "moral"?
 

Anti-World

Member
Actually. I really want to be immoral because it's more lucrative. If I want to be moral it's only because that's what society has taught me and I am not going to follow society. I can see where society is headed. It disgusts me because the human mind is capable of far better things (Be it sex, murder, drug fascinations, etc).

The major difference, and this is huge, between an atheist coming up with his own morals is that it is not unified. When something is not unified, it breaks. People should not follow morals just when it suits them.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Anti-World said:
Actually. I really want to be immoral because it's more lucrative . . .

Anti-World said:
. . . People should not follow morals just when it suits them.
So you want to be moral and you want to be immoral. Join the club!

How do you choose?
 

Anti-World

Member
How am I moral... That's tough. At this moment I'm being run mostly by what my Dad taught me and Jesus because those are two people who I have found to be purely intersted in the advancement of mankind. Do I follow god? Nah, I've never heard voices in my head and when I do, there will be some serious problems. Right now, that's my religious foundation.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Anti-World said:
How am I moral... That's tough. At this moment I'm being run mostly by what my Dad taught me and Jesus because those are two people who I have found to be purely intersted in the advancement of mankind. Do I follow god? Nah, I've never heard voices in my head and when I do, there will be some serious problems. Right now, that's my religious foundation.

Is that approach not satisfactory to you?
 

Anti-World

Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
Oh, so it's sorta like my signature...just a fact. You're right, plain and simple. ;)

Cute. However, it's the beleif in god that creates atheists not the actual existance of one.


No my approach at the moment isn't quite enough. Any and all theories, ideas, and morals must be written and observed in a coherant matter unchangable and understandable. If this is not so than no theory, idea, or moral is going to hold any relevance in a real-life situation. This is most likely why the bible was created and a multiple variety of other books. If I were to answer my own question I would say that the bible is not a waste of space but it is poorly fulfilling its purpose and, therefore, I/we need to find something better. But I didn't start this thread to hear what I have to say. I want to know: Do you think the bible is necessary for a moral society? If not, what is? If not, why do we bother with it? Why is it the most sold book in the world? Why do so many people attempt to translate it in language and rationalization?
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Anti-World said:
No my approach at the moment isn't quite enough. Any and all theories, ideas, and morals must be written and observed in a coherant matter unchangable and understandable. If this is not so than no theory, idea, or moral is going to hold any relevance in a real-life situation. This is most likely why the bible was created and a multiple variety of other books.

There's probably some truth to that.

Anti-World said:
If I were to answer my own question I would say that the bible is not a waste of space but it is poorly fulfilling its purpose and, therefore, I/we need to find something better.

This is irreconcilable with your earlier statement: "Any and all theories, ideas, and morals must be written and observed in a coherant matter unchangable and understandable."

Anti-World said:
But I didn't start this thread to hear what I have to say. I want to know: Do you think the bible is necessary for a moral society?

No. Depending on how one approaches it, it can be detrimental to a moral society. Black slavery in the U.S. was justified for centuries based on the Bible. So was the slaughter of natives by the Spaniards.

Anti-World said:
If not, what is?

Something deeper that you can only find in yourself.


Anti-World said:
If not, why do we bother with it?

Because not everybody wants to look deeper. Some want easy answers and are willing to accept a poor substitute.


Anti-World said:
Why is it the most sold book in the world? Why do so many people attempt to translate it in language and rationalization?

Good question. Why do you think that is?
 

Anti-World

Member
xD

I think it's translated and rationalized because it gives people a massive amount of backing if they can make the bible say what they want it to say. It's a tool of power whether many people want to beleive that or not. Just like when gay people beleive in the bible but refuse to acknowledge that the bible does not support the homosexual lifestyle. (Many times homosexuals will stop beleiving in God rather than change their own lifestyle.) Thus supporting that people tend to support things that support themselves. That annoys me because it perverts much of the point about what the bible was created for. A code to live by and to change yourself by, not to change the bible to fit ones own needs.


" This is irreconcilable with your earlier statement: 'Any and all theories, ideas, and morals must be written and observed in a coherant matter unchangable and understandable.' "

How is that? The bible is becoming more and more incoherant and therefore is becoming more useless. The only relevant data that can be collected from the bible is the data everyone can agree on and this list of items is getting smaller and smaller. A moral society needs to be unified and, hence, the bible is losing all its true power. For instance, the bible states, "Thou shalt not kill." That use to be a pretty normal and well accepted commandment that wasn't doubted and carried out (Kind of). Now, however, we have to translate it when it comes to wars, protecting our families, etc. The bible is so abhorrently cryptic that its difficult for it to be a foundation for any morals. That's why I say its not quite a waste of space but its not a good foundation for morals, we need to find something better.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Anti-World said:
Actually, I take that back, "Thou shalt not kill" is probably the least understood commandment.

Enlighten us.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Anti-World said:
xD

I think it's translated and rationalized because it gives people a massive amount of backing if they can make the bible say what they want it to say.

Would you say it is used as an excuse from behaving ethically? If it is the source by which "moral" or "ethical" is judged, then how does one say that someone justifying their behavior based on it is making an excuse?

Anti-World said:
It's a tool of power whether many people want to beleive that or not.

Agreed.

Anti-World said:
Just like when gay people beleive in the bible but refuse to acknowledge that the bible does not support the homosexual lifestyle.

What do you consider to be "moral"?

Anti-World said:
Thus supporting that people tend to support things that support themselves.

Like you just did by interpreting the Bible to support your bias against homosexuals?

Anti-World said:
That annoys me because it perverts much of the point about what the bible was created for. A code to live by and to change yourself by, not to change the bible to fit ones own needs.

Sorry, but there isn't a "code" for anything that isn't 100% subject to interpretation, prejudice and perspective. Welcome to the world of language! There's a two-drink minimum.


Anti-World said:
" This is irreconcilable with your earlier statement: 'Any and all theories, ideas, and morals must be written and observed in a coherant matter unchangable and understandable.' "

How is that?

You stated you wanted to change what we call "moral" because the Bible isn't working right after stating that it should be "unchangeable" (your words, not mine). Sorry, those two statements are irreconcilable.

Anti-World said:
The bible is becoming more and more incoherant and therefore is becoming more useless.

How do you know it wasn't always that way? Which parts of it have changed?

Anti-World said:
For instance, the bible states, "Thou shalt not kill." That use to be a pretty normal and well accepted commandment that wasn't doubted and carried out (Kind of). Now, however, we have to translate it when it comes to wars, protecting our families, etc. The bible is so abhorrently cryptic that its difficult for it to be a foundation for any morals. That's why I say its not quite a waste of space but its not a good foundation for morals, we need to find something better.

"Any and all theories, ideas, and morals must be written and observed in a coherant matter unchangable and understandable."
 

Anti-World

Member
Wow, do I really have to? Do you mean tell you what "thou shalt not kill" means? Or how it has been mistranslated?

It's been mistranslated by the "holy crusades" and by any other wars and when babies are killed in ones womb those are the biggest that I can think of. Sorry for being a literal translator but "thou shalt not kill" means "thou shalt not kill." I know "God" has suppoosably ordained wars in his time but I wont have a problem with war either if God literally comes down and tells me to go. Until that happens, however, "Thou shalt not kill." "live by the sword die by the sword" "It has been said an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth but I tell you if your brother smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Might be a little off) Anyone can see the problems with not defending oneself but that is what the bible calls for (True, if everyone did that than there would be no problem and in that way it could actually be a good way of life. It's like cars though, you have to depend on alot of things going right.)
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Anti-World said:
Wow, do I really have to?

Yes. What I know of mistranslations and misapplications is not evidence for what you think about the situation.
 
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