Bible a waste of space?

[doppelganger]

It's been mistranslated by the "holy crusades" and by any other wars and when babies are killed in ones womb those are the biggest that I can think of. Sorry for being a literal translator but "thou shalt not kill" means "thou shalt not kill."

That's not a translation, friend. That's an interpretation. A translation takes an idea expressed in one language and tries to best approximate the meaning of that idea in the words of another language.

What is the original Hebrew for the phrase you are marking as "Thou Shalt Not Kill?" What does it mean to a writer of ancient Hebrew?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's not a translation, friend. That's an interpretation. A translation takes an idea expressed in one language and tries to best approximate the meaning of that idea in the words of another language.

What is the original Hebrew for the phrase you are marking as "Thou Shalt Not Kill?" What does it mean to a writer of ancient Hebrew?

How the commandment is interpreted historically by Israel would be useful, too.

From my research on the topic, the word is murder, and it is used sparcely in the Hebrew and Greek (LXX). I'll have to look at my notes when I get home.

I do know that the word used for murder in both Hebrew and Greek in the ten commandments and their counterparts in Hosea 4 and Jeremiah 7 do not appear in any commands from God to go to war, nor does it appear in judgement proclaimations from God or Jesus in the NT or in apocalyptic activity.

 

[Anti-World]

I'm trying to grasp exactly what you mean, doppelganger. I'm saying the bible is really messed up and too open to interpretation. I'm also saying that a person needs a written, understandable, moral system. I, however, am not saying people are naturally moral. Therefore people change according to whatever moral system they have accepted. Morals shouldn't change, people should. Disunity brings/is chaos, chaos brings death. One purpose of morals should probably be to create and not to destroy.
By saying the bible doesn't support it doesn't mean I am biased against homosexuals. I am, but that's not what I said. The bible obviously doesn't support it.
Now, before this explodes into a huge reduntent homosexuality debate I'll only say I am not one to make everyone do things the way I do and just because I don't like something doesn't make the action in question wrong. To me, its like talking about necrophiliacs, child molestation, masturbation, etc. I see very little difference, though all of those things might not be necessarily immoral.

 

[Anti-World]

Oh ya. I agree completely about all writings not being 100% perfect in any way. It presents a massive problem for morals.
I also have to apologize, I tend to use the words "translate" and "interpretation" too interchangably.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Anti-world,

Do you see any difference at all between ethics and morality?

 

[doppelganger]

I'm trying to grasp exactly what you mean, doppelganger. I'm saying the bible is really messed up and too open to interpretation.

But you are also saying that this "system" must be written down and unchangeable. That alone is impossible as words and language DO NOT have unchanging or unchangeable meanings. The meanings of words are relative to their users. Think carefully about that . . .

So then you take Atheists to task for trying to come up with what they think is a sensible, rational justification for "moral" distinctions on the grounds that they are just making it up. If the Bible is no good because it's subject to interpretation, and we shouldn't make anything new, what exactly are you proposing?

Disunity brings/is chaos, chaos brings death. One purpose of morals should probably be to create and not to destroy.

Were people destroyed with the "blessing" of God according to the stories in the Bible?

What is "moral" to you?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What is "moral" to you?

That was my point.

EDIT: I have argued, for example, that the Bible is ethically bankrupt, but morally invaluable.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That was my point.

EDIT: I have argued, for example, that the Bible is ethically bankrupt, but morally invaluable.

Is Christianity Ethically Bankrupt?

 

[doppelganger]

A-W:

I'm getting the impression that what you want to do is impose on others a standard for what you personally think is "moral," but without reference either to the tools of reason and philosophy (the Atheists) or appealing to authority (the Bible or other "sacred" writings).

Does that sound likely to be a fruitful venture to you?

 

[Anti-World]

I don't have the answer doppelganger. Neither to whats moral or how to retain it. Sorry, I simply don't. You have an excellent irefutable point that words themselves are never mean exactly one thing.

What do I think is moral... :/
Hmm....

The things that I at least used to find to be moral were things that improved the lives of both people and the universe. However, nowadays I'm not so content with making everyone else happy because I'm tired of getting backstabbed because of it. Take, for instance, giving money to a homeless person who goes out and buys alcohol with it. What is moral? That is a question I can't answer, yet.

Selflessness. That's the word that always comes to mind.

 

[doppelganger]

Selflessness. That's the word that always comes to mind.

I like that word. How does one reach "selflessness," do you think?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't have the answer doppelganger. Neither to whats moral or how to retain it. Sorry, I simply don't. You have an excellent irefutable point that words themselves are never mean exactly one thing.

What do I think is moral... :/
Hmm....

The things that I at least used to find to be moral were things that improved the lives of both people and the universe. However, nowadays I'm not so content with making everyone else happy because I'm tired of getting backstabbed because of it. Take, for instance, giving money to a homeless person who goes out and buys alcohol with it. What is moral? That is a question I can't answer, yet.

Selflessness. That's the word that always comes to mind.

If you can't define morality, I cannot see how you're in a position to debate it with reference to the bible or anything else.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I like that word. How does one reach "selflessness," do you think?

Perhaps surrender to the cross (eg., the point of the NT)?

 

[doppelganger]

Perhaps surrender to the cross (eg., the point of the NT)?

What does that mean to you?

 

[Anti-World]

But the bible can define morality, angellous? The problem with morality is that it doesn't seem to have any reason to exist. First one has to find out the purpose and then one can actually define it or live by it. This far in my life I have not seen the purpose to be moral because it only seems to serve as a stepping stool for the rich and powerful. Surrender to the cross? I think not...

Selflessness is reached through doing everything possible to help other people/world/something without regaurd to the harm it may cause myself.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

But the bible can define morality, angellous? The problem with morality is that it doesn't seem to have any reason to exist. First one has to find out the purpose and then one can actually define it or live by it. This far in my life I have not seen the purpose to be moral because it only seems to serve as a stepping stool for the rich and powerful. Surrender to the cross? I think not...

Selflessness is reached through doing everything possible to help other people/world/something without regaurd to the harm it may cause myself.

I don't think that the Bible defines morality... or perhaps not anything else. Definitions are created by some agreement by users of a language.

 

[Anti-World]

The bible has become useless in that way.

 

[doppelganger]

The bible has become useless in that way.

In that way, yes. But in other ways, no.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The bible has become useless in that way.

In which way?

 

[doppelganger]

In which way?

Good question. I understood him to mean "for deciding what is 'moral'" If not, I may need to change my last comment.