Great. You listed a bunch of source. Congrats. What's your point? None of the above is epigraphy.
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Bible - Alternative Translation
- Thread starter Rhadamanthus
- Start date
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
The point is, 70 is the magic number.:candle:
Paul's letters predate 70, and you don't list them. So how is 70 the magic number?
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
I did list pauls letters (epistles)
You just gave the wrong dates. What scholarship are you relying on for you dates of any of these texts?
Shermana
Heretic
Where are you getting that Corinthians and Romans and Galatians and Philemon were written after 100 A.D.? I would love to use that in my arguments against Paul that he didn't even write them after all, but where is the source for those dates? Most put them around 50.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
SCHOLARS
"There are various evidences which suggest that Luke made use of the works of Josephus, and it may well be that the two-part Luke-Acts was inspired by Josephus' two-part book Against Apion, published around A.D. 100." (Schonfield, 1975, p. 35)
"We now know that Luke wrote his gospel and the Acts of the Apostles in the early second century (Mack, 1995, p. 45)."
“No work of art of any kind has ever been discovered, no painting, or engraving, no sculpture, or other relic of antiquity, which may be looked upon as furnishing additional evidence of the existence of these gospels, and which was executed earlier than the latter part of the second century.” (Waite, 1992 p. 346)
"My own impression...was that the arguments for placing the Gospels as early as the end of the first century were rather weak. I found that the respected theological scholar Helmut Koester, editor of the Harvard Theological Review, made a good case for a later date, early second century, for most of the Gospels." (Ellegard, 1999, p. 3)
The first [factor] was the evolution of a canon of New Testament writings. Although oral tradition continued to be important right up till the end of the second century, most traditions had found written form by its early decades..." (Johnson, 1976, p. 54)
"What, then, are my reasons for putting Mark as 90 instead of, with most theologians, at about 70? (Wells, 1988, p. 107)
"140-150 AD is the most likely time for the writing of Mark's Gospel - by Cerinthius." (Humphreys, 2005, p. 188)
"The first reasonably complete copy we have of Galatians... dates to about 200 C.E." (Ehrman, 2006, p. 60)
"...the Gnostics began to write gospels at about the same time John composed his - around 110 - 140 AD." (Dimont, 1991, p. 159)
"...by the time the Gospels came to be written in the form that we know them, the finer details of the administration in Judea [ ie., the difference between a Procurator and a Prefect] had been forgotten." (Marsh, 1975, p. 72)
"By the time of Claudius, around 46, the title...had been changed to 'procurator' and Tacitus made the mistake, in about 115, of attaching this title to Pilate." (Wroe, 1999, p. 65)
"The Epistle of Barnabas...was probably composed...between 96 and 98 CE. It shows no knowledge whatsoever of any New Testament texts..."(Crossan, 1995, p. 122)
"It is very significant, for the date of the authorship of Luke, to note that the only Theophilius known to early Christian history...became Bishop of Antioch about 169-177 AD..." (Wheless, 2005)
"The so-called Gospel of John is something special and reflects...the highly evolved theology of a Christian writer who lived three generations after Jesus." (Vermes, 2000, p. 6)
"Essentially it [the Gospel of John] is a mid-second century theology written to combat rival 'heretical' theologies." (Humphreys, 2005, p. 238)
SCHOLARS
"There are various evidences which suggest that Luke made use of the works of Josephus, and it may well be that the two-part Luke-Acts was inspired by Josephus' two-part book Against Apion, published around A.D. 100." (Schonfield, 1975, p. 35)
"We now know that Luke wrote his gospel and the Acts of the Apostles in the early second century (Mack, 1995, p. 45)."
“No work of art of any kind has ever been discovered, no painting, or engraving, no sculpture, or other relic of antiquity, which may be looked upon as furnishing additional evidence of the existence of these gospels, and which was executed earlier than the latter part of the second century.” (Waite, 1992 p. 346)
"My own impression...was that the arguments for placing the Gospels as early as the end of the first century were rather weak. I found that the respected theological scholar Helmut Koester, editor of the Harvard Theological Review, made a good case for a later date, early second century, for most of the Gospels." (Ellegard, 1999, p. 3)
The first [factor] was the evolution of a canon of New Testament writings. Although oral tradition continued to be important right up till the end of the second century, most traditions had found written form by its early decades..." (Johnson, 1976, p. 54)
"What, then, are my reasons for putting Mark as 90 instead of, with most theologians, at about 70? (Wells, 1988, p. 107)
"140-150 AD is the most likely time for the writing of Mark's Gospel - by Cerinthius." (Humphreys, 2005, p. 188)
"The first reasonably complete copy we have of Galatians... dates to about 200 C.E." (Ehrman, 2006, p. 60)
"...the Gnostics began to write gospels at about the same time John composed his - around 110 - 140 AD." (Dimont, 1991, p. 159)
"...by the time the Gospels came to be written in the form that we know them, the finer details of the administration in Judea [ ie., the difference between a Procurator and a Prefect] had been forgotten." (Marsh, 1975, p. 72)
"By the time of Claudius, around 46, the title...had been changed to 'procurator' and Tacitus made the mistake, in about 115, of attaching this title to Pilate." (Wroe, 1999, p. 65)
"The Epistle of Barnabas...was probably composed...between 96 and 98 CE. It shows no knowledge whatsoever of any New Testament texts..."(Crossan, 1995, p. 122)
"It is very significant, for the date of the authorship of Luke, to note that the only Theophilius known to early Christian history...became Bishop of Antioch about 169-177 AD..." (Wheless, 2005)
"The so-called Gospel of John is something special and reflects...the highly evolved theology of a Christian writer who lived three generations after Jesus." (Vermes, 2000, p. 6)
"Essentially it [the Gospel of John] is a mid-second century theology written to combat rival 'heretical' theologies." (Humphreys, 2005, p. 238)
THE REALITY
There is so much evidence that the Gospels were written in the Second Century that it’s hard to believe that the vast majority of scholars still stick stubbornly to the belief that they are a First Century production. The earliest known Christian writings are the letters of the Apostle Paul, dated sometime between 48 and 58 A.D.; but there are no copies of these original documents [1], and there are many questions about their authenticity [2]. Some people believe that the earliest versions of the four Gospels were written between 60 A.D. (Mark) and 100 A.D. (John), but there is no proof of these early dates, and some scholars believe that all the Gospels were written after 100 A.D. (e.g., Acharya, 1999; Ellegard, 1999; Keeler, 1965; Koester, 1980; Wheless, 1990). Here is some evidence to support this theory:
The first epistle of Clement of Rome (c 64-96 A.D.), which is reasonably dated to 95 A.D., makes no mention of any of the Gospels although it does mention the epistles of Paul. This is a strange omission had the Gospels been circulating at that time.
The Gospel of Luke borrows heavily from material in Josephus’ (37–100 A.D.) later works [3], especially Life and Against Apion, implying that the Gospel of Luke was not composed (much less published) until after 100 A.D., since Josephus’ later works weren’t published before 95 A.D.
None of the Gospels are mentioned in the letters of Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, which can be dated from 110 A.D.
Archeologically, the earliest dated portion of any gospel is a tiny fragment consisting of a few words from what could be the Gospel of John, and this dates to 125 AD (Funk & Hoover, 1993, p. 9).
Unfortunately for you, you are discussing this issue with someon who not only is capable of reading the greek, latin, and hebrew texts by the authors of the NT, Josephus, Pliny, etc., but is also familiar with the scholarship behind the dates for various christian texts.
I'm very familiar with Ehrman's work. Had you read his edition of his mentor's work (Metzger) on NT textual criticism. you would know that the date of our "complete copy" was copied long after the original, which Ehrman (along with virtually all biblical scholars) date prior to 70CE.
Not only do scholars disagree about the date of gnostic writings, they don't even agree on what gnosticism is.
You refer to a tiny minority of scholarship here, and of scholars. And you select only those which you think back your view. But there are plenty of extremely influential scholars(Meyer, Wright, Meier, Bauckham, Bailey, Dunn, etc.) who would disagree.
We don't. That is not only Mack's opinion, it is contrary to the scholarly consensus.
John's gospel is usually considered by experts to be the last written. Yet we have an actual scrap dating from the early 2nd century. Which means that it and certainly the other gospels were composed in the first century.
Wells is an expert in german studies. Not NT or biblical studies. Like several of your "experts" you quote here, his opinion is not only rejected by most experts, it isn't even the opinion of an expert.
When you can quote journal articles or other academic works written by biblical scholars which determine that Paul's letters weren't written before the 70s, then post. And while you are at it, try reading some actual scholarship on the gospels. Just the fact that you quote Wells, whose expertise is in no way related to biblical scholarship, the historical Jesus, or anything else related to this issue is enough to show your bias and/or lack of knowledge.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
If a scholar believe virgin births as actualities and gospels where written by phantoms, then they are not real scholars
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
bumbed
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
Zodiac Genesis
Gen 1:1
Upon the Beginning the Gods fashioned the Sky and Earth
Gen 1:2
Earth was Chaos and Empty, Darkness was over the faces of the Ocean and the wind of the gods blew over the faces of the waters.
Gen 1:3 The Gods spoke, let there be Light, and there was daybreak
Gen 1:4
The Gods saw the light, and it was pleasent, and the gods set apart the Light from the darkness
Gen 1:5
The Gods called this Light, the Day, and the darkness was named the Night, and the Sun Setting and rising was the First Day,
The Gods said, let there be a Vault in the midst of the waters, to seperate the Waters from Waters(Rain)
Gen 1:7
the Gods used the Vault to divide the Water under the Vault and the Waters above the Vault.
the Gods called the Vault, the Sky, let the Sun Set and Rise the second day.
Gen 1:9
The Gods said let the Water under the sky gather and dry up.
Gen 1:10
The Gods called the Dryness the earth, the mass of water was called the Sea, and the gods saw it was pleasant.
Gen 1:11
The Gods said, let the soil sprout vegetation and plants yield seeds, and the trees that grow fruit, let there seeds scatter the earth
Gen 1:12
The Soil produced herds and plants yielding seeds of different kinds and trees that grow fruit with seeds within them, the gods saw this was pleasureful.
the Sun Set and Rose for the third Day
Gen 1:14
The Gods said, let there be luminaries in the vaults of the sky, to seperate the days and nights and let them be signs for seasons, the days and the Years
Gen 1:15
And let these luminaries in the vaults of the sky Light up the Earth
Gen 1:16
The Gods made two important lights, the greator to rule the Day and the dimmer light and stars to light up the earth.
Gen 1:17
The Gods places these in the Vaults of the Sky to light up the earth
Gen 1:18
To Rule the day and night to divide the light from the darkness, the gods where pleased.
the Sun Set and rose for the forth Day
Gen 1:20
The Gods said, let the waters swarm creatures that breath life, and let the birds fly in the vaults of the sky.
Gen 1:21
The Gods fashioned many sea serpents and other living creature that swims through the waters swarming with different kinds, as well as the winged birds of all kind, the Gods saw that it was pleasent.
Gen 1:22
The Gods adored them, let them breed and multiply and fill the waters in the seas and rivers and the birds multiply the earth
the Sun Set and rose for the fifth Day,
Gen 1:24
The Gods said, the earth shall bring forth different kinds of creatures, like
cattle, insects and let these animals of different kinds walk the earth
Gen 1:25
The gods fashioned different animals and cattle and other walking beasts upon the earth, the gods saw was it was pleasant
Gen 1:26
The Gods said, let us make produce man in our ressemblence and likeines, let them rule over the fish of the seas and rivers, the flying birds of the sky and the cattle of the land, as well as the over animals that walk the earth.
Gen 1:27
The Gods fashioned man in there own ressemblence, the ressemblence of the gods created males and females created them.
Gen 1:28
The gods blessed them, and the gods told them to breed and fill the land, and rule and dominate over the fish of the seas and rivers, birds of the sky and over every animal that moves upon the earth.
Gen 1:29
The Gods said to them, i gave you every plant bearing seeds upon the faces of the land and every trees and its fruit that yield seeds for your consumpsion.
Gen 1:30
The Animals of the earth, the birds of the sky and animals that walk upon the land whom will feed upon the plants as food.
The Gods saw which he had made and the abundances was good.
the Sun Set and Sun Rise for the sixth Day,
Gen 2:1 (should be 1:32)
The sky and earth finised its duty
Upon the seventh day, the gods finished there work they had done and rested upon the seventh day from there work they had done.
Gen 2:3 (should be 1:34)
The Gods blessed the sevenths day which was observed as holy, because they had rested from there work that the gods created and made
Aries/Nisan - Land is without crops
Gen 1:1
Upon the Beginning the Gods fashioned the Sky and Earth
Gen 1:2
Earth was Chaos and Empty, Darkness was over the faces of the Ocean and the wind of the gods blew over the faces of the waters.
Gen 1:3 The Gods spoke, let there be Light, and there was daybreak
Gen 1:4
The Gods saw the light, and it was pleasent, and the gods set apart the Light from the darkness
Gen 1:5
The Gods called this Light, the Day, and the darkness was named the Night, and the Sun Setting and rising was the First Day,
Taurus/Iyyar - Spring Rains
Gen 1:6The Gods said, let there be a Vault in the midst of the waters, to seperate the Waters from Waters(Rain)
Gen 1:7
the Gods used the Vault to divide the Water under the Vault and the Waters above the Vault.
Gemini/Sivan - Rain Stops, land fertilized
Gen 1:8the Gods called the Vault, the Sky, let the Sun Set and Rise the second day.
Gen 1:9
The Gods said let the Water under the sky gather and dry up.
Gen 1:10
The Gods called the Dryness the earth, the mass of water was called the Sea, and the gods saw it was pleasant.
Gen 1:11
The Gods said, let the soil sprout vegetation and plants yield seeds, and the trees that grow fruit, let there seeds scatter the earth
Gen 1:12
The Soil produced herds and plants yielding seeds of different kinds and trees that grow fruit with seeds within them, the gods saw this was pleasureful.
Cancer/Tammuz
Gen 1:13the Sun Set and Rose for the third Day
Gen 1:14
The Gods said, let there be luminaries in the vaults of the sky, to seperate the days and nights and let them be signs for seasons, the days and the Years
Gen 1:15
And let these luminaries in the vaults of the sky Light up the Earth
Gen 1:16
The Gods made two important lights, the greator to rule the Day and the dimmer light and stars to light up the earth.
Gen 1:17
The Gods places these in the Vaults of the Sky to light up the earth
Gen 1:18
To Rule the day and night to divide the light from the darkness, the gods where pleased.
Leo/Ab
Gen 1:19the Sun Set and rose for the forth Day
Gen 1:20
The Gods said, let the waters swarm creatures that breath life, and let the birds fly in the vaults of the sky.
Gen 1:21
The Gods fashioned many sea serpents and other living creature that swims through the waters swarming with different kinds, as well as the winged birds of all kind, the Gods saw that it was pleasent.
Gen 1:22
The Gods adored them, let them breed and multiply and fill the waters in the seas and rivers and the birds multiply the earth
Virgo/Elul - Fertility/mother gives birth to her children.
Gen 1:23the Sun Set and rose for the fifth Day,
Gen 1:24
The Gods said, the earth shall bring forth different kinds of creatures, like
cattle, insects and let these animals of different kinds walk the earth
Gen 1:25
The gods fashioned different animals and cattle and other walking beasts upon the earth, the gods saw was it was pleasant
Gen 1:26
The Gods said, let us make produce man in our ressemblence and likeines, let them rule over the fish of the seas and rivers, the flying birds of the sky and the cattle of the land, as well as the over animals that walk the earth.
Gen 1:27
The Gods fashioned man in there own ressemblence, the ressemblence of the gods created males and females created them.
Gen 1:28
The gods blessed them, and the gods told them to breed and fill the land, and rule and dominate over the fish of the seas and rivers, birds of the sky and over every animal that moves upon the earth.
Gen 1:29
The Gods said to them, i gave you every plant bearing seeds upon the faces of the land and every trees and its fruit that yield seeds for your consumpsion.
Gen 1:30
The Animals of the earth, the birds of the sky and animals that walk upon the land whom will feed upon the plants as food.
Libra/Tishri - Harvest Picked
Gen 1:31The Gods saw which he had made and the abundances was good.
the Sun Set and Sun Rise for the sixth Day,
Gen 2:1 (should be 1:32)
The sky and earth finised its duty
Scorpio/Marheshvan Sun Rests, days shorten
Gen 2:2 (should be 1:33)Upon the seventh day, the gods finished there work they had done and rested upon the seventh day from there work they had done.
Gen 2:3 (should be 1:34)
The Gods blessed the sevenths day which was observed as holy, because they had rested from there work that the gods created and made
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fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
If you're going to just copy and paste a random list, you might want to cite your source. It may also do well to have actually read the material in the list. Because it is obvious that you, and the source you got this material from, did not.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I'm guessing you haven't read any scholarship then on the subject. Most scholars see the virgin birth as a myth, that was attached to the story of Jesus, for a number of reasons, such as giving us an explanation of who he was, and an overview of his mission to come.
I don't know a single scholar who thinks that the Gospels were written by phantoms though. It really helps if you read scholarship though. The list you rattled off is not scholarship. It is taking people out of context, and trying to pass off poor scholarship as if it really means anything.
Levite
Higher and Higher
Whatever the civil wars or theological schisms taking place in this era, it is quite clear that the vast majority of the Jewish People were not, at this point, worshipping anything but God. True polytheism had more or less vanished from the Jewish map by the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), and even those Jews who were Hellenized in their philosophies and practices rarely worshipped the Greek gods, at least not after the Hasmonean revolt of the 2nd century BCE, when Greek-style idolatry wa wiped out of Jewish areas. You might wish to read Philo for a sample of Hellenic Jewish thought.
At the turn of the Common Era, Jews were still by far the majority population of the Land of Israel. But the rendering of the names of foreign gods into Hebrew is not actually that difficult, mostly because it was not done much in the Land of Israel. It was done sometimes in the assimilated Jewish community of Alexandria, in Egypt: if one examines Sefer ha-Razim ("The Book of Secrets"), which dates from the first couple of centuries CE, they sometimes include non-Jewish magical rituals translated into Hebrew, which include the names of foreign gods, and they were not translated, but merely transliterated into Hebrew characters.
Actually, most Jews do think that there was a historical Jesus. The Talmud tells stories about him as a renegade who left the academy of Rabbi Joshua the elder. We simply don't believe he was the messiah, or a god, or God, or suchlike.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
There is lot of information to suggest the so called Renegade was none other then Josephus or Justus of Tiberius, for "Joseph/Joshua/Justus" seems to interchange in the bible world.
Levite
Higher and Higher
I have never heard or encountered such a thing, and it seems unlikely in the extreme.
The stories in the Talmud all are suggestive of a charismatic religious schismatic, not an assimilated military man and historian. And the individual in the stories is expressly linked in other places with the Christians who came afterward.
There is no evidence that the Rabbis of the Talmud ever heard of Josephus the writer, since they mention no such Roman history, nor an apostate military governor.
And the names Yosef and Yehoshua are not only not interchangeable, they don't even share the same roots. There were many versions and variants of the name Yehoshua (as there were with other Hebrew names) but none of them were Yakov, which had its own set of versions and variants, which did not resemble those of Yehoshua.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
Exactly, The person "Josephus" is a mystery, and "Josephus" is not "Yosef(Ἰωσήφ
" its "Josepos"(Ιώσηπος, he spells his name Uniquely.If Josepos was a Jew then why would talmud fail to mention him, he is like paul/saul/peter/jesus, a "Phantom", not even Tacitus/Suetonius mention him. he must have being educated in some sort of Jewish Priesthood Hillel/Nasi to derive his Jewish knowledge base.
Jesus-Joseph-Justus do indeed interchange (Acts 1:23/Acts 18:7/Colossians 4:11) and the name "Joseph ben Matityahu" actually appears in Luke.
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Levite
Higher and Higher
Exactly, The person "Josephus" is a mystery, and "Josephus" is not "Yosef(Ἰωσήφ
If Josepos was a Jew then why would talmud fail to mention him, he is like paul/saul/peter/jesus, a "Phantom", not even Tacitus/Suetonius mention him. he must have being educated in some sort of Jewish Priesthood Hillel/Nasi to derive his Jewish knowledge base.
I actually have no idea what relevance Josephus has to this. Josephus was not Jesus. It is eminently clear that the Rabbis knew about Jesus, and likely did not know about Josephus. Whatever the peculiarities of Josephus name or spelling, he clearly was not well known among the Jewish people, and there is no reason the Rabbis would have had to notice his existence. Just because someone is Jewish, doesn't mean the Rabbis knew who they were. Even back in those days, there were a lot of us running around.
If you're talking about Jesus, he apparently spent time in the academy of Rabbi Joshua, but there is no evidence to suggest that he studied with or ever met Hillel. And there is no reason to think that he would have trained with the priesthood, since he was apparently neither a kohen or a levite, and because the priesthood at that time was heavily dominated by the Tzedokim (Sadducees), and of all the schools of thought common to the Land of Israel at that time, their theology seems to be furthest from what Jesus taught.
Christian scripture proves nothing to me. And since most of it was either written or redacted by non-Jews, they might have made all sorts of errors about Jewish culture, Torah, Hebrew, or Aramaic, including relating names that actually had no relationship to each other. If the names seem to relate in the Christian Bible as you suggest, that has nothing to do with actual accuracy of such a relationship in Hebrew or Aramaic.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
This is insane, Josephus was the commander of the the Jewish forces in Galilee
if you read his Vita, and War of Jews he was a self-proclaimed Prophet, He told
Jews to Save themselves, first person to mention Jesus and John the Baptist aka (Johanan ben Zakai), abandoned the Jews (why have you forsaken me), then went to Rome (heaven), he even had his own "Resurrection" story, where people though he died when he was struck with a 'Rock', his mother mourned.
He was likely the most famous of the Jews of all time (in reality) was not a
real Jew.
Coincidences
-------------
From The Writings of Josephus:
1. At "about fourteen years of age,"
he (Josephus) was commanded by all
for the love I had to learning (Vita 9)
2. 12 Jews of Caesaria are sent as a
delegation to Ecbatana (Vita 54-55)
3. 70 messengers are sent from Ecbatana to Caesarea (Vita 56)
4. During this time, before his purported surrender to the Romans, "I
was now about thirty years old" (Vita
8O)
5. Josephus’ quarters were in a
Galilean village named Cana (Vita 86)
6. Josephus told his friends that "in
three days time" he would "quit the
district and go home" (Vita 205)
7. Jesus, chief magistrate of Tiberias,
accuses Josephus of embezzling 20
pieces of gold (Vita 294-297). They
laid hands on him and attempted to
kill him (Vita 302)
8. Josephus notices three of his acquaintances had been crucified, so he
entreats Titus to take them down; two
of them die but one recovers (Vita
420-421
From The Gospels:
1. When Jesus was twelve years old his
parents found him after three days in
the Temple conversing with the
teachers (Mat 2.46)
2. Jesus appoints and sends out 12
apostles to preach and heal (Mat.
10.2,5)
3. Jesus appointed 70 others and sent
them ahead of him (Luke 10.1)
4. Jesus commenced his ministry when
he was 30 years of age (Luke 3.23)
5. Jesus attended a wedding in Cana
(John 2.1-2) then came to Cana
again (John 4.46)
6. Jesus prophecies he will be raised up
on the third day (Mat. 16.21)
7. Judas goes to the priests and obtains
30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus
(Mat. 26.14-16)
8. Two robbers were crucified on
either side of Jesus (Mat. 18.38). Only
Jesus rises (Mat. 28.6)
Josephus
1. Titus begins campaign at Gennesareth where his soldiers "follow" him and fish for men
2. Describes "one head" whose "wickedness" unleashes a legion of "demons" that infects another
group that runs wildly
3. At Gadara, 2,000 of the "demons" do not drown
4.At Jerusalem, describes a son of Mary whose flesh is eaten
5.Titus sends Simon to a martyr's death at Rome but spares John at conclusion of campaign
Gospels
1. Jesus begins ministry at Gennesareth and says "Follow me and become fishers of men
2.At Gadara, encounters a legion inside of one man that infects a group that in turn infects another
group
3."Swine" run wildly and 2,000 drown
4.At Jerusalem, the "Son of Mary" offers his flesh to be eaten
5.Jesus foresees a martyr's death for Simon at Rome but spares John at conclusion of ministry
From WAR OF THE JEWS
Start of a campaign (War 3, 10, 2)
describes this battle as the "onset" of his sole command of the army
Star of Jesus' Ministry
Sent by his father
"he sent away his son Titus to Caesarea" (War 3, 9, 7
sent by his father in heaven
His followers followed
"entered the city the first of them all, and the others soon after him" (War 3, 10,5)
"brought their boat to shore and followed him" (Luke 5:10)
Reassures troops not to be afraid
"you know very well that I go into danger first, do not therefore desert me"
(War 3, 10, 2)
"Do not be afraid" (Luke 5:10)
Reference to Chorazai
"it produces the Coracinish" (War 3, 10,8)
Woe to you Chorazain" (prophecy in Matt. 11:23)
Presence of a Jesus
Jesus is the leader of the rebels at the Sea of Galilee
Fishing For men
the Jews fall out of their boats "such as were drowning in the sea . . . attempted to swim to
their enemies, the Romans cut off either their heads or their hands" (War 3, 10, 8, clause 527)
"I will make you fishers of men" (Matt. 4:19)
Titus begins campaign a Gennesareth where his soldiers follow" him and fish for men
Jesus begins ministry at Gennesareth and says "Follow me" and become fishers of me
Joseph inspired from his pseudo name sake of Genesis
Parallel Activity Joseph Jesus
He was the favorite son of a wealthy father Gen. 37:3 Matt. 3:17
He was a shepherd Gen. 37:2 John 10:11-14
He was taken into Egypt to avoid being killed Gen. 37:28 Matt. 2:13
He became a servant Gen. 39:4 Phil. 2:7
He began his ministry at the age of thirty Gen. 41:46 Luke 3:23
He was filled with the Spirit of God Gen. 41:38 Luke 4:1
He returned good for evil Gen.50:20 Matt. 5:44
He was humble and unspoiled by wealth Gen. 45:7-8 John 13:12
He was taught by God Gen. 41:16 John 5:19
He loved people freely Gen. 45:15 John 13:34
He gained the confidence of others quickly Gen. 39:3 Matt. 8:8
He gave bread to hungry people that came to him Gen. 41:57 Mark 6:41
He resisted the most difficult temptations Gen. 39:8-9 Heb. 4:15
He was given vision into the future Gen. 37:6 Matt. 24:3
He tested people to reveal their true nature Gen. 42:25 Mark 11:30
He was hated for his teachings Gen. 37:8 John 7:7
He was sold for the price of a slave Gen. 37:28 Matt. 26:15
He was falsely accused Gen. 39:14 Mark 14:56
He was silent before his accuser Gen. 39:20 Mark 15:4
He was condemned between two prisoners Gen. 40:2-3 Luke 23:32
He was dead before his father Gen. 37:33 Luke 23:46
He was held for two, and was free on the third Gen. 41:1 Luke 9:22
He arose into a new life Gen. 41:41 Mark 16:6
He was not recognized by his own brethren Gen. 42.8 Luke 24:37
He returned to his father Gen. 46:29 Mark 16:19
He became a lord / Lord Gen. 45:8 Rev. 19:16
Levite
Higher and Higher
There were hundreds, if not thousands of guys running around in those days claiming to be prophets or the messiah. Means nothing.
And there were lots of garrison commanders during the various Judean revolts. He was one of many.
The Rabbis had no reason to look twice at him.
:cover:
John the Baptist is not the same person as Yochanan ben Zakai!! Not even close!! Just...OMG.... :help:Um...whatever. This has no relevance to anything except that Josephus admits to be a drama queen.
He was not the most famous of the Jews of all time. He was not even in the top ten. For us Jews, he probably doesn't even make the top 50 or 100.
Gigantic mass of Christian scripture, Josephus text, and misused Tanakh = tl:dr
In any case, I have no idea where you get your concepts, but you really need to consult reputable historical and Biblical critical sources. The narrative you present as "actual history" or "fact" bears no resemblance to either.