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Bible Prophecy as Evidence of a bible writers trustworthiness

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
So you think that because Isaiah mentioned 'Cyrus' by name, it means he wrote it much later then claimed? That sounds like a denial of prophecy because it was too accurate.

He certainly did mention Cyrus by name and Isaiah lived in the 7th century. He certainly wasnt around in the 5th century to write the prophecy.
First of all, it is seriously debated that there are three different “books” of Isaiah contained within the corpus of what’s called “Isaiah.” And the three “books” were quite possibly written by different authors. Secondly, Second Isaiah (where the prophecy regarding Babylon is recorded) was written concurrent and following the date Babylon fell. The dating is accurate and renders the “prediction” of the fall not a “prediction,” but rather “news reporting.”
 
A test, but not proof.

Suppose you wanted evidence that some other god is not the one true god.
What evidence would youmlook for in that book?
What kind of thing would be evidence that the book is not about the one true God?
I knew nothing about prophecy before I called out to God for deliverance from drugs and alcohol 30+ years ago. He showed up and delivered me in a moment, I was seeking the God who delivered me cause there had to be more than just that one experience. Long story short, someone shared the gospel with me, I believed, repented, made a covenant with God through Jesus Christ and I was born again. At that point is when I started reading and understanding the Bible, as I read Daniel for example and saw how God had revealed to him the kingdoms that would come after Babylon to the end of the age, it all happened just like He said. You see this is all proof for me but not for you. That’s what I found, everyone needs their own relationship with God, my testimony is just that, my proof, I know God. No one can take this from me, I know what happened. I’m a witness to the Truth.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I knew nothing about prophecy before I called out to God for deliverance from drugs and alcohol 30+ years ago. He showed up and delivered me in a moment, I was seeking the God who delivered me cause there had to be more than just that one experience. Long story short, someone shared the gospel with me, I believed, repented, made a covenant with God through Jesus Christ and I was born again. At that point is when I started reading and understanding the Bible, as I read Daniel for example and saw how God had revealed to him the kingdoms that would come after Babylon to the end of the age, it all happened just like He said. You see this is all proof for me but not for you. That’s what I found, everyone needs their own relationship with God, my testimony is just that, my proof, I know God. No one can take this from me, I know what happened. I’m a witness to the Truth.

Its proof of the power of an idea,and I am so glad it worked.
It is not, of course, evidence that everything in the bible is true.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
They are playing pretty fast and loose with that list. I know that Bibles are sold openly and easily available in both India and Bahrain. On what grounds are they saying that they are banned in those countries?

"Fast n loose"with the facts is typical for creationists.
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
So there was no Holy Spirit when they but the epistle of Barnabas in the Bible? What happened?
The Gospels make it clear that Jesus chose 12 disciples, representative of the twelve tribes of lsrael, to accompany him during his ministry. One broke faith and later committed suicide. A further disciple was added to make up this loss. All twelve disciples were Jews, and their mission was first and foremost to the Jewish nation.

Saul of Tarsus, renamed Paul, became an additional apostle. He was chosen by the risen Lord, and given primary responsibility for taking the Gospel to the Gentiles. For a while, he was accompanied by Barnabas.

The point is, Barnabas was not chosen by Jesus to have primary responsibilty or authority. This was given to Paul, and it was Paul who received revelation regarding his mission and teaching. Why should there be any need of a Gospel of Barnabas in scripture if the teaching of Paul is sufficient?
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
A lot of wasted words sincr
you did not identify countries where other
"holy " books are "banned" or "illegal"( misleading word)
In most of those countries the bible is available.
Here is thevworlds most banned book.
https://theculturetrip.com/north-am...s-book-has-been-banned-in-the-most-countries/

How popular or unpopular a book is does not
indicate its validity. See " Harry Potter".
I think you'll find that your website is only referring to books of fiction. The Bible has not been included because it is not a fictional account.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Not sure how that makes sense.

Faith isn't a pathway to truth, as far as I can tell, because anything can be (and is) believed on faith.


That's just a story in an old book.
The same book that is trying to tell you that faith is a good thing.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Unbelievers don't believe in any Creators in the first place so I don't think they're attributing human qualities to some deity they don't believe in.

Faith isn't evidence.
I need evidence to be convinced that a claim is true. Got any?

The Bible makes it quite clear that God responds to faith. The world continues to clamour for evidence on the basis that 'seeing is believing', but God turns this around placing faith first. In God's kingdom, 'believing is seeing'.

If you bother to read about the ministry of Jesus, you will see that, everywhere Jesus went in Galilee, crowds flocked to hear him preach. All who went to him for healing were healed, without exception. But in one town, Nazareth, the place of his upbringing, the people were sceptical and did not go to him. They did not believe, and as a result did not witness healings or miracles.

Scripture teaches that if you continue to show scepticism, the only evidence you'll witness is the evidence of judgement. It happened to the world in Noah's day, it happened to the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, and it will happen when the Lord returns.

That's how l see it.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I wrote this list out, and did not just copy and paste from a website! It shows that Jesus fulfils the 'suffering servant' prophecies in the greatest of detail. It means that either the writers of the NT tried to fit Jesus' life to the prophecies, or the prophecies were fulfilled in the life of Jesus. If you believe the former of these two possibilities, then you have to show that the writers were able to ensure the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, and ensure his death by crucifixion on the eve of Passover. They would also have to steal his body from a tomb and then dispose of it somewhere undetected. They would then have to whip up some great belief in the disciples to make them think they were being baptised in the Holy Spirit, promised by Jesus before he died.

If you can pull off this little deception, in front of thousands of witnesses, then it's just the beginning of a movement to deceive the rest of the world.

Anyone who gives this a little thought, will realise that creating a deception is actually very difficult, especilly amongst a people, the Jews, who were suspicious of false Messiahs.

What establishes Christianity in Asia is not just words but POWER. The Acts of the Apostles shows that belief spread quickly in Asia Minor because the word was preached and signs and wonders followed. The same is true of revival today.
Since the gospels were written later, some embellishing could have taken place. Only two writers tell of the birth of Jesus and they both tell the story slightly differently. Since they weren't eyewitnesses who was their source? Mary? The Holy Spirit? If they had the same source, then why are the stories different?

The stories of casting out demons and turning water into wine and walking on water... with one version including Peter walking on water too. Could those stories be added in embellishments based on legends and oral traditions?

Then people rising from the dead. Could be embellishments? But what about the people coming out of their graves and walking around Jerusalem? That should have been witnessed by lots of people, even the Jews and Romans. Any reports of this from them? Then Jesus himself. If he came out of the tomb and the body was not there, then that old body transformed into a "glorified" body that could appear and disappear and float off into the sky? Or, since it is so unbelievable, could it be made up stories? Again, since it was written years later.

It's hard to believe that such things could have really happened. But it is also hard to believe, like you say, that the disciples could have pulled off such a hoax. Some of the things, where there were a lot of witnesses, I think those could easily have been added in embellishments. Pulling off the resurrection? Even if all it they did is steal the body and make up the appearances, getting away with taking the body seems like it would have been very difficult to do. And if the body was still in the tomb, then even if the resurrection story isn't written until years later, the body could still be produced to prove the gospels wrong.

So, the resurrection is hard to believe and hard to discount. But the rest of those miracles, including and especially the dead people getting out of their graves, I think would be easy to just write into the story. And, if the gospel writers did, that would be enough to raise doubts about the whole story and for some of us, enough not to trust the gospel stories.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
When you say "Islam doesnt accept and Christians dont accept islamic interpretations" you should note that you are addressing Muslims, not Islam. Islamic theology is not and was never built on bible prophecies. The bahai theology is founded on bible prophecies. Their whole narrative of Bahaullahs post hoc justification is based on millerism and the great disappointment, and its rooted in the Bible.
Okay, thanks. Because Baha'is do tie in Muhammad with prophecies in Revelation.
 
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