Bible Prophecy as Evidence of a bible writers trustworthiness

[Hockeycowboy]

What would you have expected and from whom?

The Israelites were surrounded by enemies, you pick.

 

[Audie]

You said this:
Its proof of the power of an idea,and I am so glad it worked.

Ok-i see where the misunderstanding came from but you
interpreted wrong and put words in my mouth.
Im not saying theres no god involved.


But thats of no account.

Any comment on the presentation of
superior capabilities? Vanity?

 

[shunyadragon]

There have been many so called prophets and 'holy men' who claim to have been the mouthpiece of God. We have many historical religious leaders and those who have created entire new branches of christiantiy. We've seen new religions spring up all claiming divine authorship.

So this is to look specifically at how fulfilled bible prophecy gives us confidence and trust that the bible is a source that is truly from God.

An outstanding prophecy is about the destruction of the ancient city of Babylon.
The prophets Jeremiah, & Isaiah wrote about its coming destruction hundreds of years before it happened.
Jeremiah wrote in 625bce

Jeremiah 50
1 The word that Jehovah spoke concerning Babylon,+ concerning the land of the Chal·deʹans, through Jeremiah the prophet:...3. For a nation has come against her from the north.+
38 There is a devastation on her waters, and they will be dried up.+....She will never again be inhabited,
Nor will she be a place of residence throughout all generations.”+
40 ... “no one will dwell there, and no man will settle there.+

Isaiah actually named the ruler who would be the one to destroy Babylon 200 years before the event.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah says,...25 I am frustrating the signs of the empty talkers,*
...26 The One making the word of his servant come true
And completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers;+The One saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be inhabited,’+And of the cities of Judah, ‘They will be rebuilt,+And I will restore her ruins’;+
27 The One saying to the deep waters, ‘Be evaporated,And I will dry up all your rivers’;+
28 The One saying of Cyrus,+ ‘He is my shepherd,And he will completely carry out all my will’;+
The One saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.’”+

After the destruction of Babylon the jews were released and were able to return to their homeland, Jerusalem, which lay in ruins. They rebuilt the city and temple as foretold.


The destruction of Babylon is explained by the historical facts (see link)
Babylon - World History Encyclopedia

"The Persian Conquest & Babylon's Decline
The Neo-Babylonian Empire continued after the death of Nebuchadnezzar II and Babylon continued to play an important role in the region under the rule of Nabonidus and his successor Belshazzar (featured in the biblical Book of Daniel). In 539 BCE the empire fell to the Persians under Cyrus the Great at the Battle of Opis. Babylon's walls were impregnable and so the Persians cleverly devised a plan whereby they diverted the course of the Euphrates River so that it fell to a manageable depth.

UNDER PERSIAN RULE, BABYLON FLOURISHED AS A CENTER OF ART & EDUCATION.
While the residents of the city were distracted by one of their great religious feast days, the Persian army waded the river and marched under the walls of Babylon unnoticed. It was claimed the city was taken without a fight although documents of the time indicate that repairs had to be made to the walls and some sections of the city and so perhaps the action was not as effortless as the Persian account maintained."


And thousands of years later the ancient city of Babylon has never been inhabited, it has never prospered and it remains a heap of ruins today.
This is just 1 example of bible prophecy that can build confidence in the bible as Gods Word.

Prophecies that may be interpreted hundreds of different ways are not reliable.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Ok-i see where the misunderstanding came from but you
interpreted wrong and put words in my mouth.
Im not saying theres no god involved.


But thats of no account.

Any comment on the presentation of
superior capabilities? Vanity?

So you misinterpreted what I said but no big deal, God opens eyes that are blind,‘so yes I was blind but now I see. This is available to everyone who asks so don’t see the vanity in that.
But ok the power of an idea is not what happened to me.
What’s your definition of vanity? Must be different than mine

 

[Audie]

So you misinterpreted what I said but no big deal, God opens eyes that are blind,‘so yes I was blind but now I see. This is available to everyone who asks so don’t see the vanity in that.
But ok the power of an idea is not what happened to me.
What’s your definition of vanity? Must be different than mine

I already ...but never mind.
⁷
The thread is about prophecy as evidence
of binle- trustworthiness.

So to iffy " examples" i offered very concrete
proof that its not trustworthy in what it.says.

 

[firedragon]

Patristic literature, of which the Epistle of Barnabas is an example, is all literature that ends up being disqualified from the canon of the NT.

But it was in the canon, and published. Just naming it "patristic literature" does not make any point. Its just a red herring.

The question is, as you said the bible canon was inspired by the Holy Spirit, then the epistle of Barnabas was also part of the canon, and canonised by the Holy Spirit. Its not there in any bible today. So either Holy Spirit was mistaken, or humans put it in, and then took it off.

 

[ppp]

I’m talking from personal experience, I said earlier how I was a drug addict, thief, liar, adulterer and a blind fool so how can I have any condescending air or some superiority?

I don't know. How? You are the one telling me that your conclusions are correct, and that mine aren't for no other reason than the fact that you have had a personal experience - just like every one of a religion that directly contradicts your own. As I said before:
I have heard your words from people of every religion I have encountered; people who are members of religions that are monotheists, polytheists, and atheists alike. And you all say those same words, yet all disagree bitterly on what spiritual discernment actually is and what there is to be discerned. Not a one of you are able to demonstrate that you know or are able to know the thing that you say are true. So, not only do I wonder why you should expect anyone else to take your claims seriously. I genuinely wonder wonder why any of you do.

 

[ppp]

But brother, apart from God, yes we are all blind.

Why should I believe that?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don't need to offer alternative explanations to bare claims, this is called an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. The epistemological burden of proof fa;;s on the person making the claim.

So, you won’t answer the question, based on a fallacy? I think you can’t answer the question.

These events happen all the time, to rational-thinking, drug-free individuals.

And I supplied “proof” by submitting the Wikipedia article...

That's an appeal to authority fallacy, and it is axiomatic that any human being is capable of delusion, especially an egomaniac like Churchill.

He wasn’t the only person. There've been several reknowned & respected individuals having these experiences, just with this one ‘entity’.

And there have been thousands of these so-called ghosts experienced throughout the centuries.

 

[kaninchen]

The Israelites were surrounded by enemies, you pick.

In other words, it was all bluster.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I don't know. How? You are the one telling me that your conclusions are correct, and that mine aren't for no other reason than the fact that you have had a personal experience - just like every one of a religion that directly contradicts your own. As I said before:

You say that my personal experience is “just like every one of a religion”. This is not a true statement. So if you can provide some kind of evidence that any other person made that’s the same go for it. It’s not just one event, it’s a relationship with God that has spanned 30+ years. The testimonies that people have of being born again and knowing Jesus Christ, receiving eternal life are unlike any other.
Getting to Isaiah 53, this is just 1 prophecy spoken about 700 years in advance, only an eternal God could predict future events and the Bible is unique in this regard. No other person fits Isaiah 53 so you tell me, who is this talking about?
There are hundreds of prophecies in Scripture that have been fulfilled and are being fulfilled in our lifetime. You said you weren’t blind, that you see.
101 End Times Bible Prophecies Listed | Amos37

 

[ppp]

You say that my personal experience is “just like every one of a religion”.

You misread that. Let me rephrase. Just like everybody, from every other religion you claim to have a personal experience that proves your religion is true. I'm not saying that you're personal experiences identical to theirs. I'm saying that you are all citing your personal experiences as evidence of whatever deity that it is you claim exists. The details of all your respective personal experiences don't matter unless you can demonstrate that there is a deity to have given you personal experiences.

Until then, you are just a bunch of people claiming that they're unique. Personal experiences over whatever course of time they have believed is evidence of their particular deity.

Do you honestly think that Christianity is the only religion where people claim that they encounter their deity ? Or that they don't have life-changing experiences over the course of decades? Or that belief in their religious tenets and practices prove their respective gods right and everybody else's wrong?

You can't all be right. But you can all be wrong.

 

[Audie]

We have all heard stories of people trying
to quit smoking.
My Dad quit years before i was born after 17
years of smoking Camels. After many failures.

He saw a Yul Brenner thIng on TV.
Hotel room in L.A.
Mr. Brenner had died of ling cancer.
Here he was, very sick, saying like
" if I had not smoked, I would be alive today.
If you smoke, just quit."

My Dad took the pack from his pocket,
threw it away, never smoked again.

AND, I thought so interesting, he said zero
craving ever again from that moment.

Cant help wondering what that says about addiction.

Now, I dont know and unlike our friend, do
not claim to know, whether there is a god.

But I am highly confident that if someone got the same result after a preacher laid
hands and invoked God, that God would
the credit.

 

[Audie]

You say that my personal experience is “just like every one of a religion”. This is not a true statement. So if you can provide some kind of evidence that any other person made that’s the same go for it. It’s not just one event, it’s a relationship with God that has spanned 30+ years. The testimonies that people have of being born again and knowing Jesus Christ, receiving eternal life are unlike any other.
Getting to Isaiah 53, this is just 1 prophecy spoken about 700 years in advance, only an eternal God could predict future events and the Bible is unique in this regard. No other person fits Isaiah 53 so you tell me, who is this talking about?
There are hundreds of prophecies in Scripture that have been fulfilled and are being fulfilled in our lifetime. You said you weren’t blind, that you see.
101 End Times Bible Prophecies Listed | Amos37

Turn about is fair play, no?
Fulfilled Prophecies of The Holy Quran

If you are not blind, you will see.

 

[Redemptionsong]

But it was in the canon, and published. Just naming it "patristic literature" does not make any point. Its just a red herring.

The question is, as you said the bible canon was inspired by the Holy Spirit, then the epistle of Barnabas was also part of the canon, and canonised by the Holy Spirit. Its not there in any bible today. So either Holy Spirit was mistaken, or humans put it in, and then took it off.

The canon of NT scripture was not 'fixed' until Athanasius' 39th Pascal letter of 367 CE. Before that time certain books, such as Hebrews, were omitted, and others disputed.

The Epistle of Barnabus has, according to lrenaeus of Lyons (120-200 CE), the Muratorian canon (170-210), Eusebius (260-340 CE), Athanasius, and the present canon, always been omitted. It has always been viewed as an apocryphal work.

The present canon of NT scripture has now been established for hundreds of years, and is fixed. I suggest you concentrate your energies on discovering what Christians consider to be inspired scripture, rather than on apocryphal writings.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Turn about is fair play, no?

That’s what healthy debate is all about

 

[Audie]

That’s what healthy debate is all about

Any thoughts about the koran making all those prophecy claims

 

[ElishaElijah]

Turn about is fair play, no?
Fulfilled Prophecies of The Holy Quran

If you are not blind, you will see.

So, how do you see these prophecies compared to the Biblical prophecies? I’ve asked about Isaiah 53 and posted many others in a previous post.
Do you believe there are true prophets and false prophets, how to tell the difference?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Any thoughts about the koran making all those prophecy claims

I do have thoughts on those

 

[ElishaElijah]

Any thoughts about the koran making all those prophecy claims

Abraham was given a promise that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. He had Ishmael born of Hagar, Isaac born of Sarah (son of promise). God said he would also bless Ishmael so Islam has some relationship to God and I believe this is a foreshadowing of the Gentiles coming to faith in Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

“So the child grew and was weaned. And Abraham made a great feast on the same day that Isaac was weaned. And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son. But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.” So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting it on her shoulder, he gave it and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba. And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs. Then she went and sat down across from him at a distance of about a bowshot; for she said to herself, “Let me not see the death of the boy.” So she sat opposite him, and lifted her voice and wept. And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the lad a drink. So God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. He dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭21:8-21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“Now the Lord had said to Abram: “Get out of your country, From your family And from your father’s house, To a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬