Biden offered Putin 20% of Ukraine to end the war?

[Estro Felino]

I confess, I find that a ghastly comparison -- totally beyond my comprehension. Just as a tiny example, I don't believe that Obama has personally ordered the murders of anyone -- Putin most certainly has. (For the record, you will understand that I don't think that political disagreements between individuals, parties or nations justifies wanton killing. That's just a personal opinion, but I think I'll stay with it.)

If Obama and Hillary want to kindly come to Rome, I know so many lawyers are preparing a Criminal Trial to ascertain the war crimes in Libya.
Those lawyers would like to ask them so many questions.
Ah, and by the way, I underline they are not head of states, so they have no immunity according to our laws.
So they will be forced to testify.
I underline that according to our criminal procedure, a witness can be turned into a defendant, just like that.

The party's over, in Europe.

 

[Estro Felino]

So, you approve of political dissidents being tortured, imprisoned, and/or assassinated? Of LGBTs being subjected to discrimination and violence? Of war crimes against innocent civilians, including rape, torture, and murder of children? Of the institutionalized rape within Russia's military? Of tyranny, bloodshed, and human rights abuses?
Hang your head in shame, then drop to your knees and pray profusely to Christ for forgiveness.

Let's be serious: Putin's nothing but trash, unworthy of licking Obama's boots.

What happened in Ukraine is not even 1/5 of what Obama did in Syria, Libya, Yemen.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I confess, I find that a ghastly comparison -- totally beyond my comprehension. Just as a tiny example, I don't believe that Obama has personally ordered the murders of anyone -- Putin most certainly has. (For the record, you will understand that I don't think that political disagreements between individuals, parties or nations justifies wanton killing. That's just a personal opinion, but I think I'll stay with it.)

Oh, Obama has personally ordered the deaths of hundreds of people (just like Biden, Trump, Bush, Clinton, etc). They're called drone strikes. They're targeted assassinations, but they've also killed thousands of civilians altogether, through multiple presidencies. The President has to authorize them. He authorized hundreds of them during his 8 years in office. The issue has been rather controversial in recent years, if you haven't heard.

Even besides all that, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, openly gloated over the death of Gaddafi, which was a rather clear war crime.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What happened in Ukraine is not even 1/5 of what Obama did in Syria, Libya, Yemen.

Yes, black Libyans, migrants and refugees from other African nations are being sold as slaves. The North African jihadis that the US allied with against Gaddafi appear to be very racist against black people. There were multiple cases of genocidal massacres against black Africans in Libya by NATO-supported jihadis. There were ghost towns created because of this and complaints about it from human rights NGOs, but no one cares about it. I saw the videos and pictures. Even Wikipedia had articles about the ghost towns. It was a known thing. What a bitter irony that the first "black" US president destroyed an African nation and then black people became slaves there.

At the end of the day, neolibs and neocons are the same thing and Obama was a neolib who put a "humanitarian" face on mass murder and imperialism, which continues to this day. It's the same thing as always, but with different justifications depending on what's acceptable.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, black Libyans, migrants and refugees from other African nations are being sold as slaves. The North African jihadis that the US allied with against Gaddafi appear to be very racist against black people. There were multiple cases of genocidal massacres against black Africans in Libya by NATO-supported jihadis. There were ghost towns created because of this and complaints about it from human rights NGOs, but no one cares about it. I saw the videos and pictures. Even Wikipedia had articles about the ghost towns. It was a known thing. What a bitter irony that the first "black" US president destroyed an African nation and then black people became slaves there.

At the end of the day, neolibs and neocons are the same thing and Obama was a neolib who put a "humanitarian" face on mass murder and imperialism, which continues to this day. It's the same thing as always, but with different justifications depending on what's acceptable.

Finally an American citizen that has understood what the Obama administration did to Libya.
And Putin denounced all those things.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Finally an American citizen that has understood what the Obama administration did to Libya.
And Putin denounced all those things.

I'm definitely not the only one. There's many others who pay attention, but you won't find too many of us on this forum. I save a lot of my political musings for other places.

 

[Father Heathen]

What happened in Ukraine is not even 1/5 of what Obama did in Syria, Libya, Yemen.

Were U.S. troops in those countries raping, torturing, and murdering civilians - including children - then tossing them into mass graves? Was the U.S. attempting to steal land?
I'm not saying that Obama or the U.S. are perfect/innocent, but to claim that they're the same as or worse than Putin is just a sad demonstration of floundering mental gymnastics for the sake of some sick despot fetish.

Besides, whataboutism doesn't wash blood off hands.

 

[Father Heathen]

@Saint Frankenstein @Estro Felino

During a rally ceremony back in September, Putin referred to trans folk as "perversions that lead to degradation and extinction".

Thoughts?

 

[Estro Felino]

Were U.S. troops in those countries raping, torturing, and murdering civilians - including children - then tossing them into mass graves? Was the U.S. attempting to steal land?
I'm not saying that Obama or the U.S. are perfect/innocent, but to claim that they're the same as or worse than Putin is just a sad demonstration of floundering mental gymnastics for the sake of some sick despot fetish.

Besides, whataboutism doesn't wash blood off hands.

It's called doublestandardism: meaning that certain Americans exclusively care about Ukrainians, but couldn't care less about Libyans, Yemenis, Syrians, and so on.
By the way, yes: many Libyans were killed. It was a civil war. Unleashed because the US supported the radicals and not the moderates.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's called doublestandardism: meaning that certain Americans exclusively care about Ukrainians, but couldn't care less about Libyans, Yemenis, Syrians, and so on.
By the way, yes: many Libyans were killed. It was a civil war. Unleashed because the US supported the radicals and not the moderates.

Then perhaps Obama and Putin can share a cell?

 

[Revoltingest]

@Saint Frankenstein @Estro Felino

During a rally ceremony back in September, Putin referred to trans folk as "perversions that lead to degradation and extinction".

Thoughts?

Putin does have appeal to people with some
conservative leanings....he's big on Christianity,
old school western values, strength, security & order.
He's also against decadence, trans folk, & gays.
It's been fascinating watching people from both liberal
& conservative wings favor Putin, & oppose Ukraine.
Anti-USA whataboutism is the favored argument.
Right & wrong become subordinate to pointing
fingers at the sins of others, eg, USA, NATO, Ukraine.

 

[Father Heathen]

Putin does have appeal to people with some
conservative leanings....he's big on Christianity,
old school western values, strength, security & order.
He's also against decadence, trans folk, & gays.
It's been fascinating watching people from both liberal
& conservative wings favor Putin, & oppose Ukraine.
Anti-USA whataboutism is the favored argument.
Right & wrong become subordinate to pointing
fingers at the sins of others, eg, USA, NATO, Ukraine.

I was disappointed to discover Roger Waters among Putin's boot lickers.

 

[Revoltingest]

I was disappointed to discover Roger Waters among Putin's boot lickers.

I had to google who he is.
Brits...still smarting over losing the wars with us.

 

[metis]

That Putin is 100 times better than Obama.
Yes, I reaffirm that.

That's a shame.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Saint Frankenstein @Estro Felino

During a rally ceremony back in September, Putin referred to trans folk as "perversions that lead to degradation and extinction".

Thoughts?

In Europe identity politics is not a thing. Sexuality remains private.
Politicians' marital life remains private.
In the US there is an identity politics that focuses on many things, including politicians' private life.
That's why the FLOTUS is a political figure. She gives political speeches.

My private life has nothing to do with my values. And by the way I do agree with Putin. Children are supposed to learn heterosexual sex education exclusively.
When they are 18, they will learn there are other kinds of sexuality. They will learn what cisgender mean and other things involving Lgbt.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

In Europe identity politics is not a thing. Sexuality remains private.

As a European, I can affirm that this is absolutely not true. Identity politics and culture wars are also rife over here.

My private life has nothing to do with my values. And by the way I do agree with Putin.

You agree that LGBT people are "perversions that lead to degradation and extinction"?

Children are supposed to learn heterosexual sex education exclusively.

Why?

 

[Father Heathen]

In Europe identity politics is not a thing.

Nonsense. Europe paved the way for LGBT rights.

My private life has nothing to do with my values.

How could they be considered values if you don't live by them?

And by the way I do agree with Putin.

That you're a "perversion that leads to degradation and extinction"?

Do we need to find you some help?

 

[metis]

Europe paved the way for LGBT rights.

An example that you are correct is with the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands.