• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Biden's $3.5 Trillion Spending Bill Really Cost "Zero"?

Do You Believe Biden's $3.5 Trillion Bill Cost "Zero"


  • Total voters
    12

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
You can't!!!!

And there is no "recoup" possible, let alone the compounding interest.

Depends on the Return on Investment, as I stated.

It is possible to recoup based on shoring up other areas where we are bleeding tax dollars like a stuck pig. Mainly infrastructure, housing, and healthcare
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Depends on the Return on Investment, as I stated.

It is possible to recoup based on shoring up other areas where we are bleeding tax dollars like a stuck pig. Mainly infrastructure, housing, and healthcare

If it were by responsible people like you, yes.

The problem is that there are too many hands in the pot. If we go back for the last 40 years, there has been almost no "recoup the cost". And if so, it was short lived. At this point, the yearly interest charge are too far gone to "recoup the cost". IMHO

Going on just a "possibility thinking", I think we are in a Russian roulette type of situation.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
It's paying for spending done in the Trump years. Republicans only care about not spending when Democrats are in office.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
If it were by responsible people like you, yes.

The problem is that there are too many hands in the pot. If we go back for the last 40 years, there has been almost no "recoup the cost". And if so, it was short lived. At this point, the yearly interest charge are too far gone to "recoup the cost". IMHO

Going on just a "possibility thinking", I think we are in a Russian roulette type of situation.
Good point, maybe you guys should get rid of all those tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, don't you think?
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
The problem is that there are too many hands in the pot.

It's who and what we've got to work with.

We either try and get "anything" in place, or we just let the country's infrastructure continue to fester.

Kind like repealing ACA, without a plan of replacement, it just doesn't work.

All compromise comes with its own problems to be fixed down the line. That's the nature of beuarocratic institutions.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It's who and what we've got to work with.

We either try and get "anything" in place, or we just let the country's infrastructure continue to fester.

Kind like repealing ACA, without a plan of replacement, it just doesn't work.

All compromise comes with its own problems to be fixed down the line. That's the nature of beuarocratic institutions.
The best thing to fix a problem, like the addiction of alcoholism. or a spending habit... isn't to empower the to continue but let the chips fall to where "I HAVE to be responsible'.

I say... let the chips fall where they may and then , after a balanced budge, then spend on infrastructure.

The basic principle for someone going through financial counseling is for them to first learn to live on a budget...THEN work on what needs help.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Good point, maybe you guys should get rid of all those tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, don't you think?
absolutely! But not penalize them either for being responsible.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Good point, maybe you guys should get rid of all those tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, don't you think?
along with all the pig (pork\) spending by our representatives.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
The best thing to fix a problem, like the addiction of alcoholism. or a spending habit... isn't to empower the to continue but let the chips fall to where "I HAVE to be responsible'.

I say... let the chips fall where they may and then , after a balanced budge, then spend on infrastructure.

The basic principle for someone going through financial counseling is for them to first learn to live on a budget...THEN work on what needs help.

Sometimes things must be addressed and worked on simultaneously. Not as individual components but as a whole system. Like this bill addresses.

Also, don't talk govt budget with me after the last four years of corporate tax cuts. Deaf ears friend.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Isn't it 100% hypocritical for those who supported Trump's tax cut that overwhelmingly helped the wealthy now whine over Biden's proposal? Save us the crocodile tears, eh!

I think Biden's proposal needs to be evaluated by the GAO to see what their estimate would be, thus I'm reserving judgment. However, basic coponents of the legislation can be and shoud be passed, imo.
 

Suave

Simulated character
If it were by responsible people like you, yes.

The problem is that there are too many hands in the pot. If we go back for the last 40 years, there has been almost no "recoup the cost". And if so, it was short lived. At this point, the yearly interest charge are too far gone to "recoup the cost". IMHO

Going on just a "possibility thinking", I think we are in a Russian roulette type of situation.

"The Build Back Better Agenda is an ambitious plan to create jobs, cut taxes, and lower costs for working families – all paid for by making the tax code fairer and making the wealthiest and large corporations pay their fair share.

The Build Back Better Agenda would provide two years of free community college—boosting the earnings of low-wage high school graduates by nearly $6,000 per year.

President Biden’s plan will lower prescription drug costs for Americans by letting Medicare negotiate drug prices, so consumers are no longer at the whim of pharmaceutical companies.

The Build Back Better Agenda would reduce health insurance premiums, saving 9 million people an average of $50 per person per month, and add dental, vision, and hearing coverage to Medicare. By closing the Medicaid gap for low-income Americans, the President’s plan would help 4 million uninsured people gain coverage. President Biden’s agenda would also expand home care for older and disabled Americans, while improving the jobs and the pay of the home care workers who care for them.

The Build Back Better Agenda will use tax credits and government financing to bolster affordable and resilient housing, supporting the construction or rehabilitation of more than two million homes.

The American Rescue Plan increased the Child Tax Credit from $2,000 per child to $3,000 per child for children six and over and $3,600 for children under six. The Build Back Better Agenda will extend the Child Tax Credit expansion in the American Rescue Plan, providing nearly 40 million households.

The President’s agenda extends the American Rescue Plan’s increase to the Earned-Income Tax Credit from $543 to $1,502. This will benefit roughly 17 million low-wage workers,

Through high-quality career and technical education pathways and Registered Apprenticeships, President Biden’s Build Back Better Agenda will invest in training programs that will prepare millions of American workers for high-quality jobs in growing sectors.

The President’s plan would create good-paying, union jobs, establish an energy efficiency and clean energy standard, expand and extend clean energy and electric vehicle tax credits,

President Biden’s Build Back Better Agenda will address teacher shortages and improve teacher preparation, including through teacher residencies and Grow Your Own programs that produce better outcomes and develop more teachers of color. It would expand free school meals to an additional 9.3 million children during the school year and help families purchase food during the summer. And the President’s plan also invests in upgrading school infrastructure, so that we have cutting-edge, energy-efficient, resilient school buildings with technology and labs that will prepare students for the jobs of the future."

The Build Back Better Agenda | The White House
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
"The Build Back Better Agenda is an ambitious plan to create jobs, cut taxes, and lower costs for working families – all paid for by making the tax code fairer and making the wealthiest and large corporations pay their fair share.

The Build Back Better Agenda would provide two years of free community college—boosting the earnings of low-wage high school graduates by nearly $6,000 per year.

President Biden’s plan will lower prescription drug costs for Americans by letting Medicare negotiate drug prices, so consumers are no longer at the whim of pharmaceutical companies.

The Build Back Better Agenda would reduce health insurance premiums, saving 9 million people an average of $50 per person per month, and add dental, vision, and hearing coverage to Medicare. By closing the Medicaid gap for low-income Americans, the President’s plan would help 4 million uninsured people gain coverage. President Biden’s agenda would also expand home care for older and disabled Americans, while improving the jobs and the pay of the home care workers who care for them.

The Build Back Better Agenda will use tax credits and government financing to bolster affordable and resilient housing, supporting the construction or rehabilitation of more than two million homes.

The American Rescue Plan increased the Child Tax Credit from $2,000 per child to $3,000 per child for children six and over and $3,600 for children under six. The Build Back Better Agenda will extend the Child Tax Credit expansion in the American Rescue Plan, providing nearly 40 million households.

The President’s agenda extends the American Rescue Plan’s increase to the Earned-Income Tax Credit from $543 to $1,502. This will benefit roughly 17 million low-wage workers,

Through high-quality career and technical education pathways and Registered Apprenticeships, President Biden’s Build Back Better Agenda will invest in training programs that will prepare millions of American workers for high-quality jobs in growing sectors.

The President’s plan would create good-paying, union jobs, establish an energy efficiency and clean energy standard, expand and extend clean energy and electric vehicle tax credits,

President Biden’s Build Back Better Agenda will address teacher shortages and improve teacher preparation, including through teacher residencies and Grow Your Own programs that produce better outcomes and develop more teachers of color. It would expand free school meals to an additional 9.3 million children during the school year and help families purchase food during the summer. And the President’s plan also invests in upgrading school infrastructure, so that we have cutting-edge, energy-efficient, resilient school buildings with technology and labs that will prepare students for the jobs of the future."

The Build Back Better Agenda | The White House/
Excellent post, imo, and I think it's time to start reinvesting in American families and not just investors themseles. To relate this to religion, I think this is exactly what Jesus would want us to do.
 

Suave

Simulated character
Isn't it 100% hypocritical for those who supported Trump's tax cut that overwhelmingly helped the wealthy now whine over Biden's proposal? Save us the crocodile tears, eh!

I think Biden's proposal needs to be evaluated by the GAO to see what their estimate would be, thus I'm reserving judgment. However, basic coponents of the legislation can be and shoud be passed, imo.

I'm confident Build Back Better programs and tax credits will be fully paid for by getting the wealthiest people and large corporations to pay their fair share of taxes.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Sometimes things must be addressed and worked on simultaneously. Not as individual components but as a whole system. Like this bill addresses.

Also, don't talk govt budget with me after the last four years of corporate tax cuts. Deaf ears friend.
You did notice I said "the last 40 years) - that includes the previous admin.

You are right about "Sometimes things must be addressed and worked on simultaneously." which would have been great maybe 30 years ago.

But... look at the 3.5 trillion.... is it really "infrastructure?"

  • $726 billion for the Health, Labor, Education and Pensions Committee with expansive instructions to address some of Democrats' top priorities. Those areas include universal pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds, child care for working families, tuition-free community college, funding for historically black colleges and universities and an expansion of the Pell Grant for higher education.
  • $107 billion for the Judiciary Committee, including instructions to address "lawful permanent status for qualified immigrants."
  • $135 billion for the Committee on Agriculture Nutrition and Forestry, including instructions to address forest fires, reduce carbon emissions and address drought concerns.
  • $332 billion for the Banking Committee, including instructions to invest in public housing, the Housing Trust Fund, housing affordability and equity and community land trusts.
  • $198 billion for the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, including instructions largely related to clean energy development.
Senate Democrats Roll Child Care And Immigration Into A $3.5T Budget Framework

as well as: "One piece that hasn’t received much attention yet is a special journalism “tax credit” equal to 50% of the salary of each journalist—up to $50,000 per journalist annually." (Daily Signal)
2. Big Labor Tax Break
Sec. 138514 provides for an above-the-line deduction for up to $250 in “dues” to a labor organization.
This deduction would cost $4.25 billion in revenues.

3. Solar Subsidies to “Promote Environmental Justice”

This provision in the bill expands the energy credit for solar facilities in low-income communities, in which “the Secretary makes an allocation of environmental justice solar capacity limitation.”

The extension, modification, and increase in this energy credit would cost $63.9 billion.

4. $15 Billion for “Energy-Efficient” Doors and Windows

The reconciliation package would replace a $500 lifetime cap on nonbusiness energy property credits with an annual $1,200 credit. This credit allows up to $600 in credits for energy efficient windows and skylights and up to $500 for energy efficient doors.

This provision also increases the percentage of the credit for installing qualified energy efficiency improvements from 10 percent of the cost to 30 percent. There is no reason the government should be subsidizing individuals’ door and window replacements.

5. Tax Credit for Electric Bikes

Sec. 136407 establishes a 15 percent refundable tax credit for electric bicycles. Under this law, taxpayers could claim a credit of up to $1,500 for electric bicycles costing as much as $8,000 per bike. As a reminder, a tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar reduction in your tax liability.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that this provision alone could cost $7.43 billion.

In 2020, the e-bike market was valued at $23.89 billion.

6. Tax Breaks for Elite, Well-Funded Private Universities

Sec. 137702 of this bill would reduce, potentially down to zero, excise tax on investment income of private colleges and universities depending on the amount of financial aid they offer their students. Notably, universities who can provide a lot of grants and scholarships are typically universities with the largest endowments: for example, universities like Harvard and Yale.

The amount of tax imposed would be reduced based on the aggregate amount of qualified aid awards provided by the institution in relation to the aggregate undergraduate tuition and fees received by the institution. This phaseout would reduce tax revenues by $2.34 billion.

7. Investments in the “Green Workforce”

In Title 5 of this bill, “Investment in the Green Workforce,” Democrats spend $10 billion funding perplexing, niche credits:

  • Sec. 136501 allows the Secretary to allocate an additional $2.5 billion in credits for the advanced energy project credit. About $400 million in credits each year would be reserved for projects in “automotive communities.” Automotive communities, in this bill, are defined as communities that have “experienced major job losses in the automotive manufacturing sector.”
  • Sec. 136502 provides a credit for up to 10 percent of the labor costs incurred by a taxpayer in installing “mechanical insulation property into a mechanical system which was originally placed in service not less than 1 year before the date on which such mechanical insulation property is installed.” Huh?

8. Refundable Credit for “Environmental Justice” Programs

Sec. 136601 of the bill.

This provision creates a capped refundable competitive credit of $1 billion for each year from 2022 through and including 2031 to institutions of higher education for environmental justice (EJ) programs. The base credit is 20 percent of costs spent within five years by the higher education institution; however, for HBCUs and minority-serving institutions (MSIs), this credit could cover 30 percent of costs.

9. Repealing Social Security Number Requirement to Qualify for Child Tax Credit (CTC)

Sec. 137102 would eliminate the Social Security Number requirement for qualifying children, ... ...opening the credit up to more abuse.

10. Credit for Contributions to a Public Universities’ Research Infrastructure Projects
The “public university research infrastructure credit” is an amount equal to 40 percent of the qualified cash contributions made by a taxpayer during such taxable year for a qualifying project. The credit amounts allocated to a certified educational institution for all projects cannot exceed $50,000,000 per year, and the total amount of qualifying project credit amounts that may be allocated can be up to $500,000,000 for each 2022 through 2026 – or $2.5 billion in total.

(America for tax reform)

this isn't responsible infrastructure.


infrastructure
ĭn′frə-strŭk″chər
noun
  1. An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
  2. The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
  3. An underlyingbase or foundation especially for an organization or system
We can debate some of these... but the point is this really isn't infrastructure... it is a free for all.
 
Top